League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

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The most difficult part of building a Cup winning team isn’t drafting franchise players like Ovechkin and Backstrom. We got them because we sucked and we got lucky at the right time.

The hard part is to find the right crew to support them and to make the lineup complete.

We struggled to get #2Cs, #3Cs and better defensive D behind Carlson.
 
I'm not discrediting anything MacLellan has done. He inhereted a strong core group and added good complimentary pieces to it. There is no point pissing about wether it was 80% or 70%. If you can't understand how the situation was different for these two GMs, I can't help you. I can tell you that Holland added Hyman, Kane, Ekholm, Ceci, Smith, etc., all while starting off from a much-much harder position than BMac. Went to 5 playoff series in the last 2 years. This doesn't seem to matter to you.

I don't really have a top-10 GM list. There are the guys who cover-up sexual abuse and hire racist coaches. There are the Bennings. There are your perpetual builders, the Ron Francis special. Then there is the group that has BMac and Holland in it. There is another group afrter that.

It's bananas how little credit goes to the situation that a GM joins into. Like, Yzerman was the greatest s**t since sliced bread when he was in Tampa. Then he joined Detroit and has dropped waaaaaaay down the rankings. Maybe Yzerman hit his head and completely forgot how to be a GM. Maybe he joined a team in a completely different and much worse situation.
It wasn’t even 70%, lol, I just listed 8 regular skaters of 18 who dressed in the Cup run and were actual participants, or 44%, but that number doesn’t even get better when you consider scratches because you have Jerabek and Chiasson in there, Gersich, Walker (technically drafted in 2014), etc. who all contributed.

We’re comparing a prime core entering the playoffs with two of the best players on the planet to our team right now? Why aren’t we using GMBM’s first 5 years again? He changed approximately 50% of the roster depending on how far into black aces you want to go and won a cup in 4 years. Now his best players are 35+ and he’s of course not comparing playoff streaks…

Stop making up numbers and using “let’s say” arguments, you sound like Ben Shapiro.
 
It wasn’t even 70%, lol, I just listed 8 regular skaters of 18 who dressed in the Cup run and were actual participants, or 44%, but that number doesn’t even get better when you consider scratches because you have Jerabek and Chiasson in there, Gersich, Walker (technically drafted in 2014), etc. who all contributed.

We’re comparing a prime core entering the playoffs with two of the best players on the planet to our team right now? Why aren’t we using GMBM’s first 5 years again? He changed approximately 50% of the roster depending on how far into black aces you want to go and won a cup in 4 years. Now his best players are 35+ and he’s of course not comparing playoff streaks…

Stop making up numbers and using “let’s say” arguments, you sound like Ben Shapiro.
Would you like to compare Edmonton Oilers of 2018-2019 to the team that went to the conference finals? That type of logic should apply to both sides, shouldn't it? Once again, I never said that MacLellan was a bystander. You are so sensitive about this. I didn't even count Jerabek!!! I know, the audacity.

For me, the core group of about ~6-7 players represent the nucleus of the team. Goaltenders, top-6 centers, top-pair D, superstar wingers. I can't in my right mind give Ovechkin, Carlson and, for example, Kempny all equal value. That's absurd. Again, it's easy to have good goaltending when you inherit Holtby and Grubauer. It has gotten progressively harder since the two of them moved on or stopped being elite, has it not? Well, how easy do you think it is when you inherit Koskinen? Koskinen signed to a putrid contract, no less. Defense that's led by Carlson, Alzner and Orlov needed improvement, no doubt, and MacLellan did a great job improving it. When your best defensman by some margin is Darnell Nurse, you've got a long road ahead.

Are you saying that in your opinion both Holland and Maclellan took over teams in similar situations? Or that Oilers making it to 3rd and 2nd round in the last two seasons constitutes a failure? You know, it would be hilarious if Oilers went on a nice long playoff run this season. It's the same team that has done pretty well for itself in the last few seasons. The goaltending gets back to average and they'll be right there.
 
The most difficult part of building a Cup winning team isn’t drafting franchise players like Ovechkin and Backstrom. We got them because we sucked and we got lucky at the right time.

The hard part is to find the right crew to support them and to make the lineup complete.

We struggled to get #2Cs, #3Cs and better defensive D behind Carlson.
That's sort of true. IF you get hired to rebuild the team, it's true. If you get hired to compete for the Stanley Cup and you are missing a starting goaltender, 4 top-6 wingers and don't have a single elite defenseman, you are up s**t creek. Even with a paddle made out of McDavid and Draisaitl, there is only so far upstream you can get. If you manage to get this wreck to 5 playoff series in two years, you've done all right. Some crazy people might even compare you to the All-Mighty Brian MacLellan, the most glorious of all general managers.
 
Would you like to compare Edmonton Oilers of 2018-2019 to the team that went to the conference finals? That type of logic should apply to both sides, shouldn't it? Once again, I never said that MacLellan was a bystander. You are so sensitive about this. I didn't even count Jerabek!!! I know, the audacity.

For me, the core group of about ~6-7 players represent the nucleus of the team. Goaltenders, top-6 centers, top-pair D, superstar wingers. I can't in my right mind give Ovechkin, Carlson and, for example, Kempny all equal value. That's absurd. Again, it's easy to have good goaltending when you inherit Holtby and Grubauer. It has gotten progressively harder since the two of them moved on or stopped being elite, has it not? Well, how easy do you think it is when you inherit Koskinen? Koskinen signed to a putrid contract, no less. Defense that's led by Carlson, Alzner and Orlov needed improvement, no doubt, and MacLellan did a great job improving it. When your best defensman by some margin is Darnell Nurse, you've got a long road ahead.

Are you saying that in your opinion both Holland and Maclellan took over teams in similar situations? Or that Oilers making it to 3rd and 2nd round in the last two seasons constitutes a failure? You know, it would be hilarious if Oilers went on a nice long playoff run this season. It's the same team that has done pretty well for itself in the last few seasons. The goaltending gets back to average and they'll be right there.
Lmfao if you compare prospects you do it by draft year. You don’t compare a 28 year old core to a 35 year old one and shriek “Edmonton’s making the playoffs more, they’re more successful”, they’re in different phases and that’s obvious. If you’re going to say 80% of the team was made, then 70%, and be wrong about both it doesn’t matter who is core. DSP and Eller scored two of the biggest goals in the playoffs, you think their rings care if they were “core”? I included the aces to point out that even if you aren’t just looking at the 18 man lineup, the team was full of GMBM acquisitions to the tune of more than 20-30%, it’s hard to say they win without a lot of those players and good pro scouting and depth signings is this crazy thing that Holland seems incapable of doing.

If we’re going by hiring year we at least get closer to an appropriate comparison with any fairness to GMBM, and the Caps basically just kept getting better every year until they won the President’s trophy, then won a cup. Yeah, GMBM built the best team in the regular season, then turned around and got a cup next year, the Oilers haven’t even won their division.

You’re writing off Carlson’s partner for the cup, a guy everyone recognized as good and important as a f***ing top pair D (for the time) is bullshit. I don’t care if you call them core, it’s not about equal value, it’s about building a winning team. He made a great pro scouting acquisition and it paid off huge, so that’s just a garbage argument top to bottom.

You keep moving the goalposts. If your best defenseman is Darnell Nurse and that’s a problem for you, maybe you don’t sign him to a laugher deal just because. So we’re Holland’s hands tied like a Backstrom contract or did he, you know, make a bad decision?

This isn’t baseball, it’s not about comparable perfectly measured scenarios, it’s about looking at the process of the GMs and how they worked with what they had, and what they’ve made. GMBM is crushing Holland there no question at all. This is stupid
 
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Lmfao if you compare prospects you do it by draft year. You don’t compare a 28 year old core to a 35 year old one and shriek “Edmonton’s making the playoffs more, they’re more successful”, they’re in different phases and that’s obvious. If you’re going to say 80% of the team was made, then 70%, and be wrong about both it doesn’t matter who is core. DSP and Eller scored two of the biggest goals in the playoffs, you think their rings care if they were “core”? I included the aces to point out that even if you aren’t just looking at the 18 man lineup, the team was full of GMBM acquisitions to the tune of more than 20-30%, it’s hard to say they win without a lot of those players and good pro scouting and depth signings is this crazy thing that Holland seems incapable of doing.

If we’re going by hiring year we at least get closer to an appropriate comparison with any fairness to GMBM, and the Caps basically just kept getting better every year until they won the President’s trophy, then won a cup. Yeah, GMBM built the best team in the regular season, then turned around and got a cup next year, the Oilers haven’t even won their division.

You’re writing off Carlson’s partner for the cup, a guy everyone recognized as good and important as a f***ing top pair D (for the time) is bullshit. I don’t care if you call them core, it’s not about equal value, it’s about building a winning team. He made a great pro scouting acquisition and it paid off huge, so that’s just a garbage argument top to bottom.

You keep moving the goalposts. If your best defenseman is Darnell Nurse and that’s a problem for you, maybe you don’t sign him to a laugher deal just because. So we’re Holland’s hands tied like a Backstrom contract or did he, you know, make a bad decision?

This isn’t baseball, it’s not about comparable perfectly measured scenarios, it’s about looking at the process of the GMs and how they worked with what they had, and what they’ve made. GMBM is crushing Holland there no question at all. This is stupid

Friend, you are much too sensitive and emotional about all of this. MacLellan has served the Caps well. Rock on and have a good night.
 
Friend, you are much too sensitive and emotional about all of this. MacLellan has served the Caps well. Rock on and have a good night.
Recognizing that someone is arguing in bad faith isn’t emotional like I'm over here seething, it’s more like incredulity that you just want to live in your "I'm right, f*** off" bubble. People who constantly move the goalposts in a discussion board are worth pinning down, swearing is great for emphasis, and I have plenty of time on the train.

All you really brought to this discussion was feelings, baseless statements, and a little trolling and now you want to try and bow out after addressing nothing? Alright bud, I'll be here when you want to show a list of anything you think is comparable between Holland and GMBM besides the most basic of team-based measures (which, get this, give Holland credit for a core he didn't draft either)
MacLellan did a great job in his early years with the Caps. He took over a roster that was 80% there or ready to move up from the AHL, with rock solid cap situation, and added the missing pieces and the perfect head coach for that situation.
Roster 80% there, then 70%, then "core" players and we just don't count the guy who showed up and played about 18 minutes a night in the Finals and scored 3 points in 5 games at all because why again? If Kempny doesn't count despite being a huge piece of that team because he's not as important as "core" guys why isn't Holland finding any to fix his D? Can't he get an Eller, at least?
If you manage to get this wreck to 5 playoff series in two years, you've done all right. Some crazy people might even compare you to the All-Mighty Brian MacLellan, the most glorious of all general managers.
lol, "emotional"
 
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Can fans also be boorish, anal-retentive, and borderline deranged?

Present thread companions excepted - of course :laugh:
what can I say? I like the hockey team, I like where I think it's going overall, I think when things are easy to fact check you do it, and I had a lot of time on the way home from work. folks can have plenty of different opinions about the team or GM, feelings are valid, but when you start making shit up that makes me go "that doesn't sound right" and then it's not right I'm going to bring it up. I don't really think borderline deranged needs to come into it...
 
what can I say? I like the hockey team, I like where I think it's going overall, I think when things are easy to fact check you do it, and I had a lot of time on the way home from work. folks can have plenty of different opinions about the team or GM, feelings are valid, but when you start making shit up that makes me go "that doesn't sound right" and then it's not right I'm going to bring it up. I don't really think borderline deranged needs to come into it...
Hey man you don't have to explain yourself to me. Have at it and say however much or little you want.

I am here for the Caps convos and the laughs. That's all. CCR might say I'm only bringing half my ass to this but I can assure you I'm using my whole ass! In the dark with both hands searching :laugh:

Edit: this is my place to get away from my work (which is basically a f***ing nightmare) and to talk about our fav hockey team. That's pretty much it
 
Hey man you don't have to explain yourself to me. Have at it and say however much or little you want.

I am here for the Caps convos and the laughs. That's all. CCR might say I'm only bringing half my ass to this but I can assure you I'm using my whole ass! In the dark with both hands searching :laugh:

Edit: this is my place to get away from my work (which is basically a f***ing nightmare) and to talk about our fav hockey team. That's pretty much it

I don’t recall addressing you directly with that comment, don’t feel so guilty, enjoy yourself! ;)
 
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Anyway, no one except a few Edmontonians wants to see the Oilers play “solid, responsible two-way hockey,” it’s more fun seeing Conor and Leon play together, those guys have to have untrammeled freedom to blow the zone at any time to put up their absurd numbers, and historically bad goaltending is over-hyped as the central cause of a team's failure - am I right? So, hell yeah, fire the no-fun coach, bring in Conor's JR. coach, and let's get back to the Oilers out-scoring their problems, playing their "defense is an annoying drag" system, and never getting past the 2nd round of the playoffs. It will certainly be more entertaining.
 
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Ouch this one stings

Random side note: Biden is my Uncle Tommy's childhood bestie. He's literally Uncle Joe to my cousins. And he's as nice and warm a person as you'll ever hope to meet. With what he's been through in life his demeanor and optimism are kinda astounding. That smile is 100% genuine. Happy for the Knights players because I'm sure he was as excited and engaged as them.
 


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(George McPhee is Wormtongue)
 
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He dyes his hair black.
I shared season tix at Cap Center with a bunch of guys beginning in the latter 1970s. Used to leave my seat at a stoppage late in the period to hit the men's room. (If you never attended there before they added to their facilities in maybe the mid-80s, restroom lines were horrible during intermissions, so I'd hit the head early. fwiw, the lines for the women's were much worse than those for the men's.) Anyway, I often saw David Poile in the concourse, on his way from wherever his perch was to watch the game to wherever he went during intermission(s). At some point a few years before his tenure ended here, his hair suddenly went from graying to black. Was tempted to say something to him about it - it was a stark difference in color - but held my tongue.
 
I shared season tix at Cap Center with a bunch of guys beginning in the latter 1970s. Used to leave my seat at a stoppage late in the period to hit the men's room. (If you never attended there before they added to their facilities in maybe the mid-80s, restroom lines were horrible during intermissions, so I'd hit the head early. fwiw, the lines for the women's were much worse than those for the men's.) Anyway, I often saw David Poile in the concourse, on his way from wherever his perch was to watch the game to wherever he went during intermission(s). At some point a few years before his tenure ended here, his hair suddenly went from graying to black. Was tempted to say something to him about it - it was a stark difference in color - but held my tongue.
I was a youngster back in those days. Somehow had the good fortune to get access to the inner circle vip lounge for people that held multiple season tickets, as a gift from my dad's boss or something.

Now I'm about as tall as people imply Matthew Phillips is when they say he's a "generous" 5'8". Maybe 5'6" on a good day. So you can imagine that at 6 or 7 I was a tiny little kid.

One of the highlights of my experience was seeing Rod Langway at the bar having a beer. Went up to him and asked him for an autograph and remember him being nice about it. He was probably about 3 feet taller than me! I think back to that a every once in a while and crack a smile at how funny it must have looked.
 
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