League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2022-23 season, Vol. 4, Off-season Edition

[marcel snapshot]

I'm not saying it was wrong to honor - but I found the ceremony: long video, gifts galore, Ted, Dick Patrick on the ice, etc - seemed excessive in relation to the achievement. I don't discount they wanted to make him feel good with what went on with his Dad this year - and I'm just a curmudgeon probably. Just offering my reaction to it.

I think the disproportionate investment in both dollars and (especially) term in 4 players that were clearly on the wrong end of their career arcs at the time of entering into those contracts wasn't good for the team. I don't blame Ovie for that. I blame the fact that Ted has never been sure he can actually sell the sport of hockey in this market. And so he errs on the side of holding onto - and keeping front and center - 4 (deservedly) popular players in this market versus managing the decline in their asset value more realistically or (compared to how, say, the NFL does it) more mercilessly.

And that's been to the detriment of adapting the Caps to the way in which successful NHL hockey teams play the game now. But Ted is more oriented toward selling star power and keeping the 2009-10 Caps vibe alive than to adapting the team to how the game is played today. IMO, that's why this team is such a hard watch - and has been since the ignominious loss to the Canes in Game 7 in 2018-19.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I'm not saying it was wrong to honor - but I found the ceremony: long video, gifts galore, Ted, Dick Patrick on the ice, etc - seemed excessive in relation to the achievement. I don't discount they wanted to make him feel good with what went on with his Dad this year - and I'm just a curmudgeon probably. Just offering my reaction to it.

I think the disproportionate investment in both dollars and (especially) term in 4 players that were clearly on the wrong end of their career arcs at the time of entering into those contracts wasn't good for the team. I don't blame Ovie for that. I blame the fact that Ted has never been sure he can actually sell the sport of hockey in this market. And so he errs on the side of holding onto - and keeping front and center - 4 (deservedly) popular players in this market versus managing the decline in their asset value more realistically or (compared to how, say, the NFL does it) more mercilessly.

And that's been to the detriment of adapting the Caps to the way in which successful NHL hockey teams play the game now. But Ted is more oriented toward selling star power and keeping the 2009-10 Caps vibe alive than to adapting the team to how the game is played today. IMO, that's why this team is such a hard watch - and has been since the ignominious loss to the Canes in Game 7 in 2018-19.

Excessive in relation to achievement…? The dude is now second in goals. Ever. He’s second in the hardest thing to do in hockey. It’s Wayne Gretzky and then Alex Ovechkin. That’s legitimately unbelievable. There’s almost nothing they could have done to over celebrate this accomplishment. Generally I think any talk of them overdoing the celebration for 801 is the looniest conversation I’ve read on here in probably forever. The greatest player in the history of the franchise broke a record that we may never see broken again in our lifetimes and it should be celebrated as such. It’s entirely possible if not probable that nobody alive on the planet right now scores 800 goals in the NHL.

But to your second point, which is one I agree with, if we’re being honest: Ted sucks and it’s not just hockey. He’s too egotistical to admit that the only success he’s had is when he did what he refuses to do and that’s tank. The Wizards are mired in mediocrity because he won’t let them admit defeat and move on. Tanking (and luck) got them Ovechkin and Backstrom. Tanking (and luck) got the Wizards Wall and Beal who were on their way to being one of the best backcourts in the league before Wall started getting hurt. Tanking is what made his teams relevant and now he refuses to consider it. It’s strange and the only motivating factors I can attribute it to are fear and ego. Sure he’ll spend money which is appreciated but he also gets too emotionally attached to players and thinks fans are dumb. He thinks fans will just hero worship certain players long past their utility has dried up. Fans want a winning product and will appreciate any player who helps deliver them that enjoyment.

 

[marcel snapshot]

he also gets too emotionally attached to players and thinks fans are dumb. He thinks fans will just hero worship certain players long past their utility has dried up. Fans want a winning product and will appreciate any player who helps deliver them that enjoyment.

Yep.

 

[Langway]

And that's been to the detriment of adapting the Caps to the way in which successful NHL hockey teams play the game now. But Ted is more oriented toward selling star power and keeping the 2009-10 Caps vibe alive than to adapting the team to how the game is played today. IMO, that's why this team is such a hard watch - and has been since the ignominious loss to the Canes in Game 7 in 2018-19.

I think this is mostly on the front office than Ted. If you're married to the retirement community idea it becomes how you capably complement and compensate for how that decline realistically will go down. They haven't had any answers aside from team defense and checking. That's a fine recipe but they've now probably crossed the threshold athletically in that going far enough. (It's also a lot less viable minus Orlov.) Is Ted keeping them from moving Kuznetsov? Probably not.

I think it's probably just going to be a rather resigned fun-and-gun from here on out and, again, I don't think that's all on Ted. They've just sort of failed to find higher-end two-way players that can help drive play and offer up some semblance of a secondary wave of leadership. It's not easy when picking later or having traded picks for so many years but it's mainly the system itself that's dried up when they least can afford it.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I think this is mostly on the front office than Ted. If you're married to the retirement community idea it becomes how you capably complement and compensate for how that decline realistically will go down. They haven't had any answers aside from team defense and checking. That's a fine recipe but they've now probably crossed the threshold athletically in that going far enough. (It's also a lot less viable minus Orlov.) Is Ted keeping them from moving Kuznetsov? Probably not.

I think it's probably just going to be a rather resigned fun-and-gun from here on out and, again, I don't think that's all on Ted. They've just sort of failed to find higher-end two-way players that can help drive play and offer up some semblance of a secondary wave of leadership. It's not easy when picking later or having traded picks for so many years but it's mainly the system itself that's dried up when they least can afford it.

I generally disagree with most of this. BMac and his team have, year after year, acquired undervalued players that have performed above expectations and provided the core with the necessary help to get them where they want to go. Team depth, goaltending, and the blue line were certainly good enough this year to make them a playoff team if not dark horse contenders. The highest paid players didn’t hold up their end of the bargain. How is that a front office problem?

Pretty much every one of their big names but namely Backstrom, Oshie, Mantha, Wilson, and Kuznetsov are not living up to their contracts this season. I would say there’s not a GM in the sport that would be able to compensate for half of your salary cap and your top two centers providing replacement level results. He hasn’t been able to find the next wave of studs, I will grant that, but those are hard to find when you’re up against the cap every year and when you haven’t drafted higher than the 20s in close to a decade. The team hitched their wagon to certain guys and those guys aren’t performing. No amount of tinkering around the edges is going to solve that. Those guys either need to play better or the team needs to ship them out.

And these are quite literally the exact same issues facing the Wizards, which is why I put a lot of blame on Ted.

 

[Langway]

In as much as Ted employs people that aren't drafting and developing very well. That much I'd agree with. His organizations lack discipline and he's got to own much of that. But the Caps at least did have a functioning developmental system at one point. They've just sort of lost it recently. It's hard to sustain to the extent that they had but at least part may be the league passing them by. They also seem to have some weaknesses in securing through the draft that crucially look to run up against what's most needed to offset further decline. They tend to focus too much on skill vs. sense and positional play and overvalue how the later leads more to consistency and play-driving.

Either their resourcefulness on the margins needs to improve further still or, more likely, more significant pieces need to be moved out. But I don't think Ted has been the one stopping that. I think they've just been too cautious and maybe missing the playoffs changes that. The top-end group is largely done for but there was a brief window there where better drafting could have kept it going. Stopgaps keep it afloat but mostly lack developing upside to integrate too much into the team. Strome looks to be a rare exception but they need one or two more near-term to have a shot.

But also I think it is the responsibility somehow, some way for the front office to get better results out of a Kuznetsov and Mantha. Is it just the responsibility of coaches or is there a collective responsibility to be more dogged in finding some sort of solution? It seems to me if there's a strong shared bond and working professional relationship between GM and coach that a lot more should be actively attempted in solving those problems. Whereas with Backstrom, Wilson and Oshie there are at least mitigating health circumstances at play. It's those two that crucially make everyone look like it's amateur hour. And I don't know that just by shipping them out and maybe securing some more reliable characters that they don't wind up with other lingering issues. All of which I think does suggest a degree of managerial weakness.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I think this is mostly on the front office than Ted. If you're married to the retirement community idea it becomes how you capably complement and compensate for how that decline realistically will go down. They haven't had any answers aside from team defense and checking. That's a fine recipe but they've now probably crossed the threshold athletically in that going far enough. (It's also a lot less viable minus Orlov.) Is Ted keeping them from moving Kuznetsov? Probably not.

I think it's probably just going to be a rather resigned fun-and-gun from here on out and, again, I don't think that's all on Ted. They've just sort of failed to find higher-end two-way players that can help drive play and offer up some semblance of a secondary wave of leadership. It's not easy when picking later or having traded picks for so many years but it's mainly the system itself that's dried up when they least can afford it.

I agree w @AlexBrovechkin8 here. I know you (and a growing faction of this board) thinks GMBM isn’t any good anymore, and that he should be replaced. I personally think that’s laughable and would be a massive mistake.

We didn’t know about Backstrom’s hip, and his contract was pre-COVID, so the flat cap was not on anyone’s radar — I’d wager teams were expecting at least 10% more to spend, if not more.

I’m certain Ted was involved in the Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Oshie contracts. Dick Patrick as well. They’ve always “been involved” behind the scenes (both teams for Ted), so I don’t know why one would think they aren’t now.

Mantha is squarely on GMBM, and I’m sure he’d like a “do over” on it.

Kuznetsov is a very complicated case. There are a LOT of intangibles here (top C talent, Russian connection, Cup Deliverer, perhaps under valued on the market?). What I really don’t want to happen is a Poile type trade where we send out the best player and get 2 medium ones back — like the Dino Ciccarelli trade or the Jagr trade out from McPhee). That’s not a good solution either.

 

[um]

You guys are a little too down in the dumps on the Caps franchise these days. I can count on one hand the franchises I consider more successful than the Caps since the lockout.

This was always gonna happen, years of trading away picks and drafting late was always gonna catch up to us. A couple of different moves here and there could have helped for sure. For me the biggest one was not finding a goalie after 2019. But this slip out of the playoffs was always inevitable.

 

[Calicaps]

You guys are a little too down on the dumps on the Caps franchise these days. I can count on one hand the franchises I consider more successful than the Caps since the lockout.

This was always gonna happen, years of trading away picks and drafting late was always gonna catch up to us. A couple of different moves could here and there could have helped for sure. For me the biggest one was not finding a goalie after 2019. But this slip out of the playoffs was always inevitable.

This so much. And more than that, management is doing what they can to keep the team at least somewhat competitive and get Ovie his goals. As he got closer to history, you had to know they were not going to blow it up before he either breaks the record or retires.

I've listened to 2 different podcasts recently, one the segment from Jeff Marek that, I think, @Marshall shared and the other was I don't even know what with a guest former GM that was on Caps Radio one day. Both times the guest expert said precisely this. Everyone in the league understands that the Caps are in a unique historical situation. They cannot rebuild in this context and so Mac's gonna have to focus on drafting for the long-term but tweaking for the shorter-term. It's not only the right option, it's the only option.

Ovie put this franchise on the map. They will do whatever they have to to keep him happy and scoring through to 895 and beyond. And not just because he deserves it, but because it makes the Caps a historically significant organization in a way I surely never thought possible.

 

[g00n]

You guys are a little too down on the dumps on the Caps franchise these days. I can count on one hand the franchises I consider more successful than the Caps since the lockout.

This was always gonna happen, years of trading away picks and drafting late was always gonna catch up to us. A couple of different moves could here and there could have helped for sure. For me the biggest one was not finding a goalie after 2019. But this slip out of the playoffs was always inevitable.

I don't have time to read the daily novels about why management is incompetent and could be easily replaced by a broomstick with an iPhone taped to it.

Everyone knew a season like this was coming. How they respond is TBD.

 

[kicksavedave]

Ovie put this franchise on the map. They will do whatever they have to to keep him happy and scoring through to 895 and beyond. And not just because he deserves it, but because it makes the Caps a historically significant organization in a way I surely never thought possible.

The year is 2003, December. The Caps are rebuilding. Their HC, Bruce Cassidy is about to be fired. The team does not currently have a captain because they traded him to Colorado two weeks into the season and didn't name a replacement. Later, in January, Jaromir Jagr, owner of the largest contract in NHL history at the time, would be traded for a bag of pucks and $4M retained salary. Times are bleak.

Someone comes to you in a fever dream and says in less than 25 years, the Capitals will have won a Stanley Cup, their Captain will win the Conn Smythe and he will become the NHL's all time leading goal scorer and never play a game in any other uniform. You wake up and the doctors put you in a padded room, because you've gone insane.

And yet here we are, bitching about a ceremony for Ovi as he passes Gordie Howe.

I'm old enough to remember when the Caps players signed a trash can and skated it around the Oakland ice rink like it was the Stanley Cup, because they had just won their first and only road game of the season en route to finishing 8-67-5. 67 regulation losses my friends.

Anything this franchise does to honor and support Ovi, is fine with me. We're so f***ing spoiled and some of us don't even have a clue!

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Agree with the first 2 observations. I may be alone, but I thought that Academy Awards ceremony for Ovie being the #2 all-time scorer was weird. Almost like sending a message that The Chase is all that Caps hockey will be for the foreseeable future. No gracias.

As for the 3rd observation, seriously bleak if true!

You do know they planned for that to be Ovechkin night before the season even started

 

[PlushMinus]

Agree with the first 2 observations. I may be alone, but I thought that Academy Awards ceremony for Ovie being the #2 all-time scorer was weird. Almost like sending a message that The Chase is all that Caps hockey will be for the foreseeable future. No gracias.

As for the 3rd observation, seriously bleak if true!

That is how I viewed it as well

 

[Calicaps]

Totally….and…..It’s not like he had just passed some “Shlub“ for 87th on the list…..he passed “Mr Hockey”……was more an act of respect for Howe and the moment IMO.

And let's also not forget that 895 is not a given. He needs to stay healthy. He needs support around him. Anything can happen. I believe he'll do it, and of course want him to, but if this were to be his pinnacle, it's still f***ing awesome and is certainly worthy of celebration.

 

[Calicaps]

I generally disagree with most of this. BMac and his team have, year after year, acquired undervalued players that have performed above expectations and provided the core with the necessary help to get them where they want to go. Team depth, goaltending, and the blue line were certainly good enough this year to make them a playoff team if not dark horse contenders. The highest paid players didn’t hold up their end of the bargain. How is that a front office problem?

Pretty much every one of their big names but namely Backstrom, Oshie, Mantha, Wilson, and Kuznetsov are not living up to their contracts this season. I would say there’s not a GM in the sport that would be able to compensate for half of your salary cap and your top two centers providing replacement level results. He hasn’t been able to find the next wave of studs, I will grant that, but those are hard to find when you’re up against the cap every year and when you haven’t drafted higher than the 20s in close to a decade. The team hitched their wagon to certain guys and those guys aren’t performing. No amount of tinkering around the edges is going to solve that. Those guys either need to play better or the team needs to ship them out.

And these are quite literally the exact same issues facing the Wizards, which is why I put a lot of blame on Ted.

Ted definitely owns a lot of this. He loves his guys, some too much. But there’s a huge difference between the Wiz and the Caps. The Wizards rebuild was a failure And the players didn’t get it done.

But the Caps rebuild (eventually) delivered him a championship and one of those players is the GOAT goal scorer. Those guys helped him realize a life dream. For better or worse, he’s attached to that and to them.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Ted definitely owns a lot of this. He loves his guys, some too much. But there’s a huge difference between the Wiz and the Caps. The Wizards rebuild was a failure And the players didn’t get it done.

But the Caps rebuild (eventually) delivered him a championship and one of those players is the GOAT goal scorer. Those guys helped him realize a life dream. For better or worse, he’s attached to that and to them.

Ted has done a piss poor job holding the Wizards accountable.

Assume McPhee for 35 years and NO sell off.

It’s just not the same

 

[RedRocking]

Great game between Kings-Oilers. Skinner with the 43 save SO. Man, if the Oilers get goaltending like that in the playoffs…yikes for the rest of the West.

Oh, and McDavid’s 61st on a nasty shortie:



I am really ready for the playoffs to start so I can just enjoy the games, and worry about my parlays/teasers, instead of our terrible tanking team.

 

[YippieKaey]

I think im gonna root for the Bruins in the playoffs. Classic team, with two beloved ex-Caps and they either win, so i can see Hathaway lift a Cup, or they lose and i can get my yearly dose of playoff disappointment.

 

[g00n]

That late DET goal cost me a 9 team parlay, dammit.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That late DET goal cost me a 9 team parlay, dammit.

9 team?!! Might as well play the lotto…

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I think im gonna root for the Bruins in the playoffs. Classic team, with two beloved ex-Caps and they either win, so i can see Hathaway lift a Cup, or they lose and i can get my yearly dose of playoff disappointment.

I’m going Minnesota and Edmonton in the West and Toronto in the East. Boston I’ll be fine with because of Orlov and Hathaway and Bergeron and Krecji have always been two of my favorite non-Caps so if they both won the Cup and then rode off into retirement that would be cool.

Also those poor fans in Boston haven’t won a championship in like, 90 days. You have to feel for them.

 

[g00n]

9 team?!! Might as well play the lotto…

I've won several of these. Just little $1 shots that can pay off 100x or more, esp if promo boosted.

No way in hell I'd wager more than maybe 2 bucks on something like that.

Hell, one week the Wolves cost me something like $1,300 with a stoppage time goal or something. Huge EPL parlay but again just $1 with ridiculous odds.

I do well with NHL and NFL and sometimes EPL or intl soccer. Not as much with NBA though I've hit some of those 6-9 pick parlays.

College basketball is a total waste of time and money, though. lol

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I've won several of these. Just little $1 shots that can pay off 100x or more, esp if promo boosted.

No way in hell I'd wager more than maybe 2 bucks on something like that.

Hell, one week the Wolves cost me something like $1,300 with a stoppage time goal or something. Huge EPL parlay but again just $1 with ridiculous odds.

I do well with NHL and NFL and sometimes EPL or intl soccer. Not as much with NBA though I've hit some of those 6-9 pick parlays.

College basketball is a total waste of time and money, though. lol

i used to play those long shot parlays and still do for special events like the NCAAs……but I learned long ago that 3 and 4 teamers hit for me way more frequently….so I limit those big parlays now. I like small bets. Most of my parlays are $5-20……not looking to get rich, just give me a reason to watch other stuff.

 

[g00n]

i used to play those long shot parlays and still do for special events like the NCAAs……but I learned long ago that 3 and 4 teamers hit for me way more frequently….so I limit those big parlays now. I like small bets. Most of my parlays are $5-20……not looking to get rich, just give me a reason to watch other stuff.

Right. It's cheap entertainment. I already have a job. lol

 

[marcel snapshot]

Great game between Kings-Oilers. Skinner with the 43 save SO. Man, if the Oilers get goaltending like that in the playoffs…yikes for the rest of the West.

Oh, and McDavid’s 61st on a nasty shortie:



I am really ready for the playoffs to start so I can just enjoy the games, and worry about my parlays/teasers, instead of our terrible tanking team.

The shot was nice - but the way McDavid gathered the puck and then just went pfffftt between the 2 Kings guys to start the breakaway was just other-worldly. He not only is able to do a little one stride shimmy through a crack in the defense, but he's actually accelerating into hyper-space mode while doing it.