League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2022-23 season, Vol. 4, Off-season Edition

[crazy8888]

The NHL and teams made a business decision that this was best for their business. Refusing and making headlines based on your opposition to something they're doing to shore up their image is simply bad for business. Nobody is entitled to a specific job, even if they worked all of their life for it. Sometimes you have to do stuff you're not thrilled about.

Without a doubt i agree with you. What i do not agree with is all the idiots with pitchforks saying people either have to fall in line or lose their job over this. Though i would like to add that i dislike people using religion as an excuse. Its a personal choice no god will bar you from heaven for taping your stick with rainbow tape. Thats just bs.

 

[crazy8888]

What he supports is ignorant bigotry. Apparently so do you.

Nobody needs to tolerate that out of some bogus idea of fairness, or gotcha games involving middle ground fallacies that twist the meaning of "tolerance".

This isn't a dispute about casual choices it's about who people ARE. The way they're born.

It's not about opinions regarding "support" of some idea, it's about rights to equal treatment.

With these Pride events the NHL is telling all such bigots "we don't want your money or you as fans...take a hike".

And at some point they'll tell players like this the same thing.

Oh god you again…… fine ill play. Everytime you respond to my post you use one of your exciting words like bigot and hey ill sell you a wall or whatever other nonsene you come up with. You are a real tough internet finger pointer. But im reality your the bigot. You respond to me with assumptions and you dont even know the first thing about me. You think i give a tiny rats ass about wall or no wall? Well i dont and pretty much on every other topic you ever spoke to me about you made statements and assumptions that are completely wrong. All i ever said and stand by saying is that i cant stand pimple face internet tough guys pointing fingers and judging when in reality they a bouch of assholes. There is a lot of stuff being shoved down our throats these days. We dont have to swallow all of it. Dont be so quick to judge people.

 

[bacchist]

It's always "shoved down our throats". Interesting that that is the go to metaphor.

 

[Calicaps]

Keep me out of nhl? He should lose his job that he worked for all his life just because he does not support the same things that you do? Really? Its pothetic what this world has come to. People should not have to think about loosing their jobs just because they do not agree with something. People also should not be made into sheep. He supports what he supports and you support what you support. Until either one of you breaks laws or harms other people you both should be left the hell alone.

It's part of his job. I don't know about your work, but my employer wouldn't take too kindly to me saying "yeah, you know I think I'm just not gonna do that thing that's part of my job."

 

[crazy8888]

It's part of his job. I don't know about your work, but my employer wouldn't take too kindly to me saying "yeah, you know I think I'm just not gonna do that thing that's part of my job."

So you say he should not be in nhl anymore because of this?

 

[Calicaps]

So you say he not be in nhl anymore because of this?

I'm saying IF the Flyers wanted to discipline or fire him, they would have cause and that saying this isn't something that should matter in his career is false. Most people have responsibilities in their jobs that they don't love, but it's what you do in order to the things you do love.

 

[Jags]

I'm saying IF the Flyers wanted to discipline or fire him, they would have cause and that saying this isn't something that should matter in his career is false. Most people have responsibilities in their jobs that they don't love, but it's what you do in order to the things you do love.

Agreed, especially if you have views like these that you know are problematic at best. If that's your position and you choose to wear it on your sleeve instead of the sweater you were asked to, then you'd best be prepared to take the thumping that comes with it.

But that's where it belongs at the moment -- at the team level. The NHL isn't in the business of litigating speech one way or the other, and boxing the players association into defending someone I'm sure they'd rather not isn't good for that relationship either. This can and should be handled by the team.

If anything, the league should make their rules on these types of things more clear instead of everyone playing hot potato with it. That can end up with clumsy, embarrassing PR nightmares like what happened with Mitch Miller and the Bruins.

 

[g00n]

Oh god you again…… fine ill play. Everytime you respond to my post you use one of your exciting words like bigot and hey ill sell you a wall or whatever other nonsene you come up with. You are a real tough internet finger pointer. But im reality your the bigot. You respond to me with assumptions and you dont even know the first thing about me. You think i give a tiny rats ass about wall or no wall? Well i dont and pretty much on every other topic you ever spoke to me about you made statements and assumptions that are completely wrong. All i ever said and stand by saying is that i cant stand pimple face internet tough guys pointing fingers and judging when in reality they a bouch of assholes. There is a lot of stuff being shoved down our throats these days. We dont have to swallow all of it. Dont be so quick to judge people.

Yeah it's always some kind of misunderstanding when innocent people keep stanning for bigots. Everybody else is the real bigot and "I'm a good person."

Maybe reconsider your position if you don't like the company.

 

[mad4comp]

You shouldn't be forcing people to wear something they don't want to. End of discussion. 10 years ago it was about "equal rights"... now it's about wear this.. wear this.. support this.. support that... or you're a bigot.

It isn't about equality it's about primacy.

 

[g00n]

You shouldn't be forcing people to wear something they don't want to. End of discussion. 10 years ago it was about "equal rights"... now it's about wear this.. wear this.. support this.. support that... or you're a bigot.

It isn't about equality it's about primacy.

Fine. Don't wear it. Now we know who the bigot is.

See how it works?

It's not primacy it's support for people who still get attacked for the way they were born.

Think it's nothing? Well now it feels bad when the group is against you, doesn't it? Forces you to conform? Hmmm I wonder who knows what that's like...

If that bigotry didn't exist these things would not be needed. Don't reverse the cause and effect.

 

[Calicaps]

You shouldn't be forcing people to wear something they don't want to. End of discussion. 10 years ago it was about "equal rights"... now it's about wear this.. wear this.. support this.. support that... or you're a bigot.

It isn't about equality it's about primacy.

Nope. It's wear this, support this because you get paid to. This is part of the job. Don't like it? Fine. Quit. Go play in the KHL. Nobody's forcing him to work for an organization that violates his beliefs (and funny how that's not a problem for him when he's drawing his paycheck). Otherwise shut up and do the job. He doesn't have to cheer for it, but he should be required to fulfill the incredibly mild social/community responsibilities that come with his million-dollar gig.

He signed up for this. His union most likely endorsed, or at least agreed to, it. He doesn't get to dictate the terms of his own employment

 

[HTFN]

You shouldn't be forcing people to wear something they don't want to. End of discussion. 10 years ago it was about "equal rights"... now it's about wear this.. wear this.. support this.. support that... or you're a bigot.

It isn't about equality it's about primacy.

Force? The NHL has rules on tucking your shirt in, this isn’t a freedom of expression thing.

If you want to play in and profit from a league that is making active overtures to minority (traditionally unwelcome) communities you can shut up and swallow your pride or you can go play somewhere else. How do you not get that? Playing in the NHL isn’t a right and if people are bigoted enough to consider throwing the privilege away because they don’t want to wear a Pride warmup then I’m just fine calling them unwelcome.

Allowing them in goes against the entire You Can Play initiative at a certain point, especially if you’re going to preserve the bigot’s right to make a minority group know they’re not welcome.

 

[mad4comp]

Fine. Don't wear it. Now we know who the bigot is.

See how it works?

It's not primacy it's support for people who still get attacked for the way they were born.

Think it's nothing? Well now ifeels bad when the group is against you, doesn't it? Forces you to conform? Hmmm I wonder who knows what that's like...t

If that bigotry didn't exist these things would not be needed. Don't reverse the cause and effect.

rofl.. well that's not how it works bud. If you don't agree with something, it doesn't make you a bigot. I never said i didnt agree with it, i said i don't agree with forcing people to wear something that they don't want to. So calm down Karen.

And by the looks of it, the NHL and the Fans agree with me. No one wants to see this stuff. especially at a hockey game.

"Hockey is for Everyone is the umbrella initiative under which the League encourages Clubs to celebrate the diversity that exists in their respective markets, and to work to achieve more welcoming and inclusive environments for all fans," the league said in its statement to ESPN. "Clubs decide whom to celebrate, when and how -- with League counsel and support. Players are free to decide which initiatives to support, and we continue to encourage their voices and perspectives on social and cultural issues."

 

[bacchist]

rofl.. well that's not how it works bud. If you don't agree with something, it doesn't make you a bigot. I never said i didnt agree with it, i said i don't agree with forcing people to wear something that they don't want to. So calm down Karen.

And by the looks of it, the NHL and the Fans agree with me. No one wants to see this stuff. especially at a hockey game.

Literally the only reason not to wear it is because you've got a problem with homosexuals.

 

[mad4comp]

Force? The NHL has rules on tucking your shirt in, this isn’t a freedom of expression thing.

If you want to play in and profit from a league that is making active overtures to minority (traditionally unwelcome) communities you can shut up and swallow your pride or you can go play somewhere else. How do you not get that? Playing in the NHL isn’t a right and if people are bigoted enough to consider throwing the privilege away because they don’t want to wear a Pride warmup then I’m just fine calling them unwelcome.

Allowing them in goes against the entire You Can Play initiative at a certain point, especially if you’re going to preserve the bigot’s right to make a minority group know they’re not welcome.

You're conflating something thats in the rule book of the game with something that is not. Let me know when this LGBT thing makes it into the NHL rulebook.

Literally the only reason not to wear it is because you've got a problem with homosexuals.

So if I refuse to wear a yarmulke... does that mean i have a problem with jews? Stop with the bullshit.

 

[Calicaps]

You're conflating something thats in the rule book of the game with something that is not. Let me know when this LGBT thing makes it into the NHL rulebook.



So if I refuse to wear a yarmulke... does that mean i have a problem with jews? Stop with the bullshit.

wow

 

[mad4comp]

wow

yea logical arguments usually elicit such responses. Thanks for recognizing it.

 

[HTFN]

You're conflating something thats in the rule book of the game with something that is not. Let me know when this LGBT thing makes it into the NHL rulebook.



So if I refuse to wear a yarmulke... does that mean i have a problem with jews? Stop with the bullshit.

Mmmmm, no, not really. It's a pretty simple point about how doing this job can come with various conditions that might "limit your freedom of expression", you still have to do them to keep doing the job. If you took a jersey tuck penalty every night because it's your right to express yourself, your team would be tired of you eventually. Same should probably eventually go for the intolerant, personally, and if you can't handle wearing a rainbow for like 10 minutes you should adjust your priorities.

That's got some religious association you're not really in a place to appropriate. That said, if the NHL wanted to wear jerseys that said "NHL Against Antisemitism" and you wouldn't wear that you'd be doing the same thing and under the same line of questioning. The equipment managers weren't passing out mesh tanktops and buttplugs, just a shirt that says "we respect you as humans"

 

[mad4comp]

Mmmmm, no, not really. It's a pretty simple point about how doing this job can come with various conditions that might "limit your freedom of expression", you still have to do them to keep doing the job. If you took a jersey tuck penalty every night because it's your right to express yourself, your team would be tired of you eventually. Same should probably eventually go for the intolerant, personally, and if you can't handle wearing a rainbow for like 10 minutes you should adjust your priorities.

That's got some religious association you're not really in a place to appropriate. That said, if the NHL wanted to wear jerseys that said "NHL Against Antisemitism" and you wouldn't wear that you'd be doing the same thing and under the same line of questioning. The equipment managers weren't passing out mesh tanktops and buttplugs, just a shirt that says "we respect you as humans"

Right.... because that's literally in the rule book and gets you and your organization fined. The LGBT stuff... not so much. Keep it out of sports.

And to the rest of your babble....

What you're saying is..

we are with x... so we are all wearing y... if you don't wear y.. you are against x?

So there's no other option? Like.. i just don't want to wear it? Or how about I don't really care because i came to watch grown men play a child's game and not worry about that stuff? No other options eh? It's funny how the ones claiming to fight for justice are the ones okay with enforcing authoritarian and fascist sentiments.

 

[HTFN]

Right.... because that's literally in the rule book and gets you and your organization fined. The LGBT stuff... not so much. Keep it out of sports.

And to the rest of your babble....

What you're saying is..

we are with x... so we are all wearing y... if you don't wear y.. you are against x?

So there's no other option? Like.. i just don't want to wear it? Or how about I don't really care because i came to watch grown men play a child's game and not worry about that stuff? No other options eh? It's funny how the ones claiming to fight for justice are the ones okay with enforcing authoritarian and fascist sentiments.

If you don't care, shrug and put it on. Yes, it's about as simple as the bolded. You shouldn't have needed help to get there.

The only reason not to wear it is to actively protest. This was already explained to you earlier and you don't get it, it's the same reason "open mindedness" doesn't mean "let's grant weight to any and all opinions equally". That's why we usually listen to people whose words check out and don't pay a lot of attention to the guy going "hey did you know you can survive by eating your own shit?"

Equal time for every dumbass position kills discourse and actual tolerance. If you can't figure this shit out you're part of the problem plain and simple. If it's really no big deal to you then it shouldn't be difficult to do what everyone else is doing.

There was a real time in human history where people would argue themselves blue to refute the idea that the earth revolved around the sun. I'm imagining they sounded a lot more like you than you'd care to believe.

 

[usiel]

All right that is enough this has delved into so cleaning up this thread. If you continue face thread banning.

 

[Drakon]

Whoops, sorry Usiel.

 

[usiel]

Whoops, sorry Usiel.

No worries we are adults here sometimes things get heated.

I kinda still wish they still had that completely unmoderated politics forum but the 2016 election murdered it. There was some smart posters/posts among the flaming/baiting/trolling.

 

[Drakon]

No worries we are adults here sometimes things get heated.

I kinda still wish they still had that completely unmoderated politics forum but the 2016 election murdered it. There was some smart posters/posts among the flaming/baiting/trolling.

I have no problem with political discussion, I just despise how quickly we end up in Godwin's law territory.

 

[usiel]

I have no problem with political discussion, I just despise how quickly we end up in Godwin's law territory.

Hey I love talking politics and have been a political junky since '92. Having a long time coworker who was conservative we had some good discussions basically learned to keep it to policy and avoid emotional non-constructive reactions (ignore culture war chum). Oh and also avoid throwing (stats) to attempt to make a point during a conversation when the other participant can verify.