League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2022-23 season, Vol. 4, Off-season Edition

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah, no. While I agree that the league was naive to assume everyone would just hop on board, This is not to my point at all. The activism isn't the players' it's the league's and the teams'.

But the players have a union and a CBA. The league didn't negotiate participation in league activist events as a requirement for employment in the CBA because I guess they assumed it was either understood or noncontroversial. Either way they were wrong.

But polling the players? NO

The league has PR and community-engagement needs. The Pride failures this year made them look like bumbling idiots. But they still need to find a way to actually stand for the things they claim to stand for (Hockey is for everyone, etc.). And that will mean getting it into the next contract that these events, whatever they end up looking like in the future, are a required part of the job, no matter what individual players, or even groups of players, think.

Some teams already did that….(poll the players). They can’t force it, so why not communicate with your employees to gauge interest?

The NHL/Teams should just give ‘em $, rather than the dog and pony show of warmups and auctions to fans.

 

[Random schmoe]

Seeing Braden Holtby walking in a Pride parade has a hell of a lot stronger impact for me than seeing him wearing a special jersey/skates/laces/pads in warmups.

Seeing the Military service member appreciation events in-game have a hell of a lot stronger impact for me than seeing the team camo jerseys in warmups and sell or give out camo hats.

Seeing players visit a Children's hospital cancer ward has a hell of a lot stronger impact for me than seeing them wear a pink jersey in warmups.

Actions speak louder than words or 'passive' honors.

 

[g00n]

And yet an entire league banding together to publicly show support of something sends a very clear and powerful message that the institutions some prefer to be "outside" of politics are actually paying attention to these social issues as intrinsic and critical to the health and wellbeing of fans, players, and other league employees in a way that can't be swept under the rug because "we just want to watch hockey".

An entire league kowtowing to pressure from a few objectors also sends a powerful message, in the wrong direction.

 

[Calicaps]

Some teams already did that….(poll the players). They can’t force it, so why not communicate with your employees to gauge interest?

The NHL/Teams should just give ‘em $, rather than the dog and pony show of warmups and auctions to fans.

The reason not to poll the players, even if some already did, is because, again, it's about what the league chooses to support. Not what the players support or don't personally.

And sure, giving money is good, but the whole point of the warmups was to show support, to make a public display that indicates where you stand.

The league f***ed it up so I'm fine with them pulling back until they can get their shit together and work with the players' collective representative to figure out how to fix it. But letting individual players effectively dictate what the league cares about, what's best from a community-relations standpoint, and how to demonstrate that is weak. And just sending a check is invisible.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The reason not to poll the players, even if some already did, is because, again, it's about what the league chooses to support. Not what the players support or don't personally.

And sure, giving money is good, but the whole point of the warmups was to show support, to make a public display that indicates where you stand.

The league f***ed it up so I'm fine with them pulling back until they can get their shit together and work with the players' collective representative to figure out how to fix it. But letting individual players effectively dictate what the league cares about, what's best from a community-relations standpoint, and how to demonstrate that is weak. And just sending a check is invisible.

If you’re “requiring” players to do this…it only makes sense to garner buy-in from them IMO. A collectively bargained pro league is a partnership between the League and its players.

Also, the league isn’t wearing jerseys that fans want to buy, the players are.

I don’t see them getting anything together and this getting reversed. I suspect the Player reps/NHLPA have already made things clear behind the scenes and here we are…plug pulled.

And yet an entire league banding together to publicly show support of something sends a very clear and powerful message that the institutions some prefer to be "outside" of politics are actually paying attention to these social issues as intrinsic and critical to the health and wellbeing of fans, players, and other league employees in a way that can't be swept under the rug because "we just want to watch hockey".

An entire league kowtowing to pressure from a few objectors also sends a powerful message, in the wrong direction.

And that’s why I suspect there is a lot more resistance in private from the players/NHLPA. So far…it’s been part faux-support.

 

[Calicaps]

If you’re “requiring” players to do this…it only makes sense to garner buy-in from them IMO. A collectively bargained pro league is a partnership between the League and its players.

Also, the league isn’t wearing jerseys that fans want to buy, the players are.

I don’t see them getting anything together and this getting reversed. I suspect the Player reps/NHLPA have already made things clear behind the scenes and here we are…plug pulled.

We shall surely see. It's interesting to me that the new NHLPA prez is an active LGBTQ ally. He's got a line to walk here, and probably knows how much support he really has among his membership now and how much opportunity there is to move that needle in the coming years. The buy-in, if it comes, will come from the players collectively even if certain individuals continue to object. So we'll see what happens.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

We shall surely see. It's interesting to me that the new NHLPA prez is an active LGBTQ ally. He's got a line to walk here, and probably knows how much support he really has among his membership now and how much opportunity there is to move that needle in the coming years. The buy-in, if it comes, will come from the players collectively even if certain individuals continue to object. So we'll see what happens.

Might come down to working through things in the room.

Hell, maybe that’s been tried and failed?

 

[Jags]

But polling the players? NO

Fixing the overall system is obviously the move, but come on. Polling the players at the team level would have made this issue invisible to the public. That team identifies the shithead(s) and can deal with them accordingly while still sidestepping the super ugly thing that would have happened otherwise.

They can choose to bench the player for the night and go on with the sweaters, skip the sweaters and do something big on social media or throw a Pride Night party in the community that's optional for players while booking as many as possible to come. You know, actually make an effort that isn't 10 minutes of cosmetic bullshit.

My point is that yes, there's the HOPE that you can do the bigger and more meaningful thing in the CBA next time around, but there's also things you can do right now in actual reality to eliminate the ugliness while actually doing something more substantial for the communities you're supporting. And polling the players is easy and free.

There'd still be the small issue that forced activism isn't activism at all. So it's in the CBA that refusing will cost you big, maybe even your job. You're still not going to find out until the last second. These guys aren't going to surrender their life's dream and millions of dollars by answering wrong to a "By the way, are you a bigoted asshole?" question in a pre-draft interview.

I agree that it should be done, but it's not entirely practical, will take a long time if it ever happens at all, and still might accomplish very little. I prefer the instant, easy, and free version that would accomplish a lot immediately and be far more honest, meaningful, and effective.

 

[RedRocking]

The reason not to poll the players, even if some already did, is because, again, it's about what the league chooses to support. Not what the players support or don't personally.

And sure, giving money is good, but the whole point of the warmups was to show support, to make a public display that indicates where you stand.

The league f***ed it up so I'm fine with them pulling back until they can get their shit together and work with the players' collective representative to figure out how to fix it. But letting individual players effectively dictate what the league cares about, what's best from a community-relations standpoint, and how to demonstrate that is weak. And just sending a check is invisible.

The worn warmup jerseys generate a ton of money at auction for each cause, though. And are obviously the most front-facing aspect of the themed nights.

So, it’s a shame that they scraped all of them. Yea, maybe they’ll be able to require some of this participation in the next CBA. But they’re never going to be able to get around people’s religious beliefs w/r/t LGBTQ+ rights. You’ll never be able to make Pride night mandatory. I think eventually people would have stopped caring about who was not participating, and just focused on the positive aspects from those that did participate.

But no - the league/teams/NHLPA couldn’t deal with the PR heat for even one more season - to at least see. And went further and torched all of the events. This reeks of cowardly BS from all parties. Letting the lowest common denominator of one event dictate the whole concept is the opposite of strong leadership.

We’ll see what kind of compromise they can reach in the next CBA - but in the meantime, this just sets NHL culture backwards as well as lessens donations to each cause. Weak.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Fixing the overall system is obviously the move, but come on. Polling the players at the team level would have made this issue invisible to the public. That team identifies the shithead(s) and can deal with them accordingly while still sidestepping the super ugly thing that would have happened otherwise.

They can choose to bench the player for the night and go on with the sweaters, skip the sweaters and do something big on social media or throw a Pride Night party in the community that's optional for players while booking as many as possible to come. You know, actually make an effort that isn't 10 minutes of cosmetic bullshit.

My point is that yes, there's the HOPE that you can do the bigger and more meaningful thing in the CBA next time around, but there's also things you can do right now in actual reality to eliminate the ugliness while actually doing something more substantial for the communities you're supporting. And polling the players is easy and free.

There'd still be the small issue that forced activism isn't activism at all. So it's in the CBA that refusing will cost you big, maybe even your job. You're still not going to find out until the last second. These guys aren't going to surrender their life's dream and millions of dollars by answering wrong to a "By the way, are you a bigoted asshole?" question in a pre-draft interview.

I agree that it should be done, but it's not entirely practical, will take a long time if it ever happens at all, and still might accomplish very little. I prefer the instant, easy, and free version that would accomplish a lot immediately and be far more honest, meaningful, and effective.

That ain’t happening IMO.

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

Must say this fact surprised me.

 

[Calicaps]

The worn warmup jerseys generate a ton of money at auction for each cause, though. And are obviously the most front-facing aspect of the themed nights.

So, it’s a shame that they scraped all of them. Yea, maybe they’ll be able to require some of this participation in the next CBA. But they’re never going to be able to get around people’s religious beliefs w/r/t LGBTQ+ rights. You’ll never be able to make Pride night mandatory. I think eventually people would have stopped caring about who was not participating, and just focused on the positive aspects from those that did participate.

But no - the league/teams/NHLPA couldn’t deal with the PR heat for even one more season - to at least see. And went further and torched all of the events. This reeks of cowardly BS from all parties. Letting the lowest common denominator of one event dictate the whole concept is the opposite of strong leadership.

We’ll see what kind of compromise they can reach in the next CBA - but in the meantime, this just sets NHL culture backwards as well as lessens donations to each cause. Weak.

I take your point, but it's actually a pretty savvy political move. Obviously, the league's primary goal with this was to stem the PR bleeding. But it also puts the issue squarely back on the NHLPA and the individual franchises. The NHLPA because the league can now claim that, while it wants ALL of these celebratory things, it's choosing to take an equitable position in the face of player resistance to certain activities, and that the players' association will have to deal with its intransigent members if it wants to support these key local constituencies. And the franchises because they WANT those other things... fighting cancer or celebrating veterans for their local PR and community outreach.

 

[PlushMinus]

Must say this fact surprised me.

As somebody who finds soccer completely boring and therefore unwatchable, it surprises me as well!

But I admit I don't watch basketball, baseball, or 'the other football' (NFL) either. As I've gotten older I spend less time watching sport. Or just don't have the interest.

 

[Kalopsia]

And yet an entire league banding together to publicly show support of something sends a very clear and powerful message that the institutions some prefer to be "outside" of politics are actually paying attention to these social issues as intrinsic and critical to the health and wellbeing of fans, players, and other league employees in a way that can't be swept under the rug because "we just want to watch hockey".

An entire league kowtowing to pressure from a few objectors also sends a powerful message, in the wrong direction.

Yeah, I can't help but think about how this compares the the Kaepernick situation. He protests police violence against minorities and gets blackballed from the NFL. Provarov protests welcoming the LGBT community and not only does his value apparently not take a hit, but the NHL ends its warmup jersey practice altogether to hide the issue. Doesn't take a genius to connect the dots and see the relative hostility or lack thereof to those two causes. I know we're straying into politics here, but anti-LGBT culture war stuff has been on a major upswing over the last decade or so and the league's reaction here is just further evidence of how effective that war has been.

Also, I don't think there's any such thing as faux support. We are our words and actions. In the moment they step out onto the ice for warm ups in a pride jersey, the insincere homophobe wearing the jersey because he's knows there's consequences for refusing is doing exactly as much to further inclusion as the guy next to him who wholeheartedly believes in the cause. When that homophobe refuses and gets away with it though, it emboldens others with the same views and makes the world that much shittier for the LGBT community. I'll take faux support over no support any day of the week.

 

[RedRocking]

I take your point, but it's actually a pretty savvy political move. Obviously, the league's primary goal with this was to stem the PR bleeding. But it also puts the issue squarely back on the NHLPA and the individual franchises. The NHLPA because the league can now claim that, while it wants ALL of celebratory these things, it's choosing to take an equitable position in the face of player resistance to certain activities, and that the players' association will have to deal with its intransigent members if it wants to support these key local constituencies. And the franchises because they WANT those other things... fighting cancer or celebrating veterans for their local PR and community outreach.

Well I wish I was as optimistic as you, and think they will be able (or even trying?) to force the players/NHLPA’s hand here. I just don’t see the guys who opted out of Pride being persuaded otherwise, and you can’t legally deny them the right to play, etc… for taking that view. But maybe there is some middle ground - remains to be seen.

In the meantime, all the other diversity issues that NHL has historically struggled with (particularly compared to the other leagues) - African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Women - just took a step back. Plus, they’ve lost the the attention and added revenue for Cancer, Vets, etc… It’s a big price to pay to hope you’re forcing people to the bargaining table, especially when it involves one of the most intransigent issues in human history: religious beliefs.

Anyways, I hope you are right and the equities involved eventually bring forth a positive, inclusive solution to the league. We shall see.

 

[Calicaps]

Well I wish I was as optimistic as you, and think they will be able (or even trying?) to force the players/NHLPA’s hand here. I just don’t see the guys who opted out of Pride being persuaded otherwise, and you can’t legally deny them the right to play, etc… for taking that view. But maybe there is some middle ground - remains to be seen.

In the meantime, all the other diversity issues that NHL has historically struggled with (particularly compared to the other leagues) - African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Women - just took a step back. Plus, they’ve lost the the attention and added revenue for Cancer, Vets, etc… It’s a big price to pay to hope you’re forcing people to the bargaining table, especially when it involves one of the most intransigent issues in human history: religious beliefs.

Anyways, I hope you are right and the equities involved eventually bring forth a positive, inclusive solution to the league. We shall see.

just to be clear, I'm not saying the league actually care about Pride or anything else. They care about perceptions. And now they've taken this ball and put it squarely in someone else's court, so from their perspective, whatever happens next, it's not on them.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

As a player it was always fun to get new jerseys. Its sad thats its over because some people hate letters

 

[Hivemind]

Must say this fact surprised me.

The NHL plays 82 games per team per season, spread all through-out the week.
The MLS plays 34 games per team per season, with games scheduled almost entirely on weekends or holidays.

It's a lot easier to grab both TV and in-person attendance numbers on a Saturday evening than it is on a Tuesday evening.

 

[twabby]

One fewer Kuznetsov option off the table. And the one that seemed to make the most sense.

I’m beginning to think Kuznetsov won’t be traded at all if that’s the return for a fully retained Johansen.

 

[Brian23]

One fewer Kuznetsov option off the table. And the one that seemed to make the most sense.

I’m beginning to think Kuznetsov won’t be traded at all if that’s the return for a fully retained Johansen.

Maybe, but Johansen costs more and preformed way worse then Kuznetsov did. He's pretty well cooked while Kuznetsov isn't.

 

[Langway]

Kuznetsov to Nashville coming soon.

They'll be adding some forwards anyway. Sissons has their third-highest AAV among forwards now.

 

[twabby]

Kuznetsov to Nashville coming soon.

This does make some sense to me. With Brunette as the coach and a good relationship between Trotz and Kuznetsov you have to figure Nashville would be a good landing spot for him. I’d imagine he’d accept a trade there. Nice destination compared to many other cities around the league and no income tax.

 

[Langway]

The issue is more who does Washington get to replace 92? Compher falls short. Jordan Staal may head to market but at least offensively doesn't have what they need. Ditto O'Reilly probably at this stage. Unless they swap in Scheifele/PLD/Lindholm they'd be downgrading. At least when it comes to offensive ceiling. All-around maybe there's an easier case to be made.

 

[RedRocking]

The issue is more who does Washington get to replace 92? Compher falls short. Jordan Staal may head to market but at least offensively doesn't have what they need. Ditto O'Reilly probably at this stage. Unless they swap in Scheifele/PLD/Lindholm they'd be downgrading. At least when it comes to offensive ceiling. All-around maybe there's an easier case to be made.

Maybe they would just have to give CMM a shot at 2/3C (depending on what you’re technically calling Backstrom), and have Strome as 1C. It’s definitely a downgrade - but if Backy is gonna play out his contract, they have to find a way to see what CMM can do at C at some point.

If they did trade Kuzy, they’d at least get the cap space - maybe for a LD, or a top 6 winger in the trade market.

 

[Capitals40]

The issue is more who does Washington get to replace 92? Compher falls short. Jordan Staal may head to market but at least offensively doesn't have what they need. Ditto O'Reilly probably at this stage. Unless they swap in Scheifele/PLD/Lindholm they'd be downgrading. At least when it comes to offensive ceiling. All-around maybe there's an easier case to be made.

RMNB just reported their sources say, at this point, trading Kuzy is a long shot. Not a surprise. They also said no suiters for Mantha, so he will most likely remain on the team.