League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2021-2 Regular Season Edition, Vol. 2

[twabby]

I can’t see DeBrincat leaving Chicago. What’s the point of signing Seth Jones to that contract if they were just going to let a guy like DeBrincat go?

Also as good as he is I don’t know that he’s the type of guy that makes Washington formidable. I really think they need a top-end playdriving two-way center, especially if this is what Backstrom is going forward.

 

[RedRocking]

I can’t see DeBrincat leaving Chicago. What’s the point of signing Seth Jones to that contract if they were just going to let a guy like DeBrincat go?

Also as good as he is I don’t know that he’s the type of guy that makes Washington formidable. I really think they need a top-end playdriving two-way center, especially if this is what Backstrom is going forward.

I agree, we really need someone that drives and creates plays, with a full 200 ft game - and can actually win face offs. I wish the Hertl idea was more than a pipe dream, as he’d be perfect. If they could keep him here, his age would line up with our “bridge” guys like Kuzy and Wilson (and I guess Mantha).

Unfortunately, I live out in NoCal, and sounds like SJ is getting ready to offer him a contract and by all accounts he wants to stay out here - especially now that Kane is gone.

So, uh..any chance Ehlers would get over Orlov injuring him, and Mac makes a move for him?

 

[EYEuhFRAYtee]

MAF come on down!

 

[Cappy76]

I agree, we really need someone that drives and creates plays, with a full 200 ft game - and can actually win face offs. I wish the Hertl idea was more than a pipe dream, as he’d be perfect. If they could keep him here, his age would line up with our “bridge” guys like Kuzy and Wilson (and I guess Mantha).

Unfortunately, I live out in NoCal, and sounds like SJ is getting ready to offer him a contract and by all accounts he wants to stay out here - especially now that Kane is gone.

So, uh..any chance Ehlers would get over Orlov injuring him, and Mac makes a move for him?

Ehlers price tag would be enormous but man would he be a nice piece to add. If the rumors out of Chicago are true I wouldn't mind adding Kubalik.

 

[twabby]

I agree, we really need someone that drives and creates plays, with a full 200 ft game - and can actually win face offs. I wish the Hertl idea was more than a pipe dream, as he’d be perfect. If they could keep him here, his age would line up with our “bridge” guys like Kuzy and Wilson (and I guess Mantha).

Unfortunately, I live out in NoCal, and sounds like SJ is getting ready to offer him a contract and by all accounts he wants to stay out here - especially now that Kane is gone.

So, uh..any chance Ehlers would get over Orlov injuring him, and Mac makes a move for him?

Yeah I read some of the news about them offering him a contract. Everyone knows he’s my #1 target, but if he’s not available then they really need to get creative elsewhere or just stand pat. They don’t need depth, they need a great player or two.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Wait, I thought he was essentially dead?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah I read some of the news about them offering him a contract. Everyone knows he’s my #1 target, but if he’s not available then they really need to get creative elsewhere or just stand pat. They don’t need depth, they need a great player or two.

I tend to agree with you….they can stand pat, and just as easily lose in the first round without spending assets for added depth, that likely don’t move the needle in terms of playoff results anyway.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Wait, I thought he was essentially dead?

shocker….

 

[twabby]

Philly has to consider blowing it up, right? Currently losing 5-2 in Buffalo and about to lose their 11th straight.

If I’m Washington I’m making serious inquiries on Claude Giroux right now. At least get the ball rolling on trade talks. He’s got the full NMC but you have to figure he’d waive for a playoff team right? Especially if Philly decides he’s not part of their future.

As bad as Philly has been Giroux has still got it:

Spoiler: “Giroux stats”

I like Hertl slightly more but Giroux is a player who could massively help the team. He drives offense and defense, he scores, and he wins faceoffs.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Giroux is also very close to being a point per game player despite being on a bad Philly team. He would help drive offense which is desperately needed. Adding a player of his caliber, a legit starter like MAF and possibly getting Mantha back would make this team a serious contender.

 

[RedRocking]

I tend to agree with you….they can stand pat, and just as easily lose in the first round without spending assets for added depth, that likely don’t move the needle in terms of playoff results anyway.

Yea at some point, they are going to have to face reality and stop mortgaging future assets for an old team that is likely one and done in the playoffs.

We all know this is coming, but BMac and Ted will have to figure out when that moment comes. Is Ovi having an unprecedented season, for his age, worth rolling the dice to get him some help now?

Is the real goal of this team to be competitive enough to help the “theater” of Ovi chasing Gretzky? Is Lavi the right coach to help in a rebuild/reload?

These are really tough questions and it’s hard to know what the thinking is in the FO. Their actions at the TDL may give us some indication.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yea at some point, they are going to have to face reality and stop mortgaging future assets for an old team that is likely one and done in the playoffs.

We all know this is coming, but BMac and Ted will have to figure out when that moment comes. Is Ovi having an unprecedented season, for his age, worth rolling the dice to get him some help now?

Is the real goal of this team to be competitive enough to help the “theater” of Ovi chasing Gretzky? Is Lavi the right coach to help in a rebuild/reload?

These are really tough questions and it’s hard to know what the thinking is in the FO. Their actions at the TDL may give us some indication.

I doubt they would admit it publicly, but I wonder if they haven’t already accepted that likely role internally….

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Giroux is also very close to being a point per game player despite being on a bad Philly team. He would help drive offense which is desperately needed. Adding a player of his caliber, a legit starter like MAF and possibly getting Mantha back would make this team a serious contender.

On paper, agree….but that cost……woof.

 

[hb13xchamps]

On paper, agree….but that cost……woof.

Depends on if Giroux backs them into a corner with his NMC like Hall last year. I can also see MAF having quite a bit of say on where he goes as well. If it came down to Washington or Edmonton I’d think he would choose Washington. Plus, he’s a UFA at the end of the year which should drive the price down a bit.

 

[twabby]

With a few additions Washington is a contending team IMO. Their D is plenty good enough to contend, and Ovechkin/Kuznetsov/Wilson form a contending top line when they are on. Mantha was a good enough addition on the second line. Backstrom and Oshie are the real question marks right now, but if they could be pushed down to the third line it’s suddenly a much more threatening lineup top to bottom.

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Wilson
Sheary-Giroux/Hertl-Mantha
Protas/McMichael/Sprong-Backstrom-Oshie
Hagelin/AJF-Dowd-Hathaway

It can work, but they need a good and trusted 3rd line and a second line that produces. I think they can make it happen with a legit top 6 center acquisition.

And yeah a goalie.

 

[Langway]

I doubt they would admit it publicly, but I wonder if they haven’t already accepted that likely role internally….

It would be very hard to buy that as being remotely acceptable. They need to be aggressive in at least attempting to put together a contender. It's what I expect anyway. They're going to predominantly stick to the notion that it's the front office's responsibility to do what it takes to add help to enable further playoff success. Will they do so to the extent that they pay rich futures is the question. I'd include the first rounder personally and doubt it's off the table but the cap will force subtractions.

If we really think about it, though, they're very fortunate to be in relatively safe playoff position. If it weren't for A.) a vintage and incredible season from Ovechkin and B.) the Islanders stinking up the joint early on this could squarely be a bubble team right now. They still could be verging on that territory. But they're not so extremely decimated by injuries to where expectations should be minimal. They can and should be more competitive.

FWIW I don't think 19/77 in the middle six will be viable for them ultimately. Not against the beasts of the league that consistently push tempo. Mantha isn't much help in that regard either. While Sheary tries he's got his own limitations so it's not a strong enough group considering realistic center play. I expect a goaltending upgrade and then hoping for the best. The forward mix requires a much more delicate balance that I'm not sure they have the appetite to attempt in-season beyond maybe a token winger add.

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Philly has to consider blowing it up, right? Currently losing 5-2 in Buffalo and about to lose their 11th straight.

If I’m Washington I’m making serious inquiries on Claude Giroux right now. At least get the ball rolling on trade talks. He’s got the full NMC but you have to figure he’d waive for a playoff team right? Especially if Philly decides he’s not part of their future.

As bad as Philly has been Giroux has still got it:

Spoiler: “Giroux stats”

View attachment 500733

View attachment 500734

I like Hertl slightly more but Giroux is a player who could massively help the team. He drives offense and defense, he scores, and he wins faceoffs.

Didn't you know the Rangers are getting those players .

 

[twabby]

It would be very hard to buy that as being remotely acceptable. They need to be aggressive in at least attempting to put together a contender. It's what I expect anyway. They're going to predominantly stick to the notion that it's the front office's responsibility to do what it takes to add help to enable further playoff success. Will they do so to the extent that they pay rich futures is the question. I'd include the first rounder personally and doubt it's off the table but the cap will force subtractions.

If we really think about it, though, they're very fortunate to be in relatively safe playoff position. If it weren't for A.) a vintage and incredible season from Ovechkin and B.) the Islanders stinking up the joint early on this could squarely be a bubble team right now. They still could be verging on that territory. But they're not so extremely decimated by injuries to where expectations should be minimal. They can and should be more competitive.

FWIW I don't think 19/77 in the middle six will be viable for them ultimately. Not against the beasts of the league that consistently push tempo. Mantha isn't much help in that regard either. While Sheary tries he's got his own limitations so it's not a strong enough group considering realistic center play. I expect a goaltending upgrade and then hoping for the best. The forward mix requires a much more delicate balance that I'm not sure they have the appetite to attempt in-season beyond maybe a token winger add.

You don’t think Backstrom and Oshie are viable options on the third line on a contender? I’m kind of with you about their abilities on a second line but even with them slowing down it seems like they should be able to win their matchups on the third line.

I’m going through the list of contenders and their third lines aren’t exactly full of great players. It takes more than just talent, of course, but even with my pessimism about Backstrom going forward he seems more than adequate to anchor a third line on a championship team.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It would be very hard to buy that as being remotely acceptable. They need to be aggressive in at least attempting to put together a contender. It's what I expect anyway. They're going to predominantly stick to the notion that it's the front office's responsibility to do what it takes to add help to enable further playoff success. Will they do so to the extent that they pay rich futures is the question. I'd include the first rounder personally and doubt it's off the table but the cap will force subtractions.

If we really think about it, though, they're very fortunate to be in relatively safe playoff position. If it weren't for A.) a vintage and incredible season from Ovechkin and B.) the Islanders stinking up the joint early on this could squarely be a bubble team right now. They still could be verging on that territory. But they're not so extremely decimated by injuries to where expectations should be minimal. They can and should be more competitive.

FWIW I don't think 19/77 in the middle six will be viable for them ultimately. Not against the beasts of the league that consistently push tempo. Mantha isn't much help in that regard either. While Sheary tries he's got his own limitations so it's not a strong enough group considering realistic center play. I expect a goaltending upgrade and then hoping for the best. The forward mix requires a much more delicate balance that I'm not sure they have the appetite to attempt in-season beyond maybe a token winger add.

Contender is a term fans and media use. The goal is probably to field a playoff team every year, while continuing to reshape the roster and chase the goal record.

$26 mil in player/cap out of the lineup is insignificant? Sometimes as a GM you have to accept your fate for a season when things out of your control go against you. We could be in or near that territory.

 

[RedRocking]

Contender is a term fans and media use. The goal is probably to field a playoff team every year, while continuing to reshape the roster and chase the goal record.

$26 mil in player/cap out of the lineup is insignificant? Sometimes as a GM you have to accept your fate for a season when things out of your control go against you. We could none in or near that territory.

Right, but at some point you have to acknowledge a rebuilding effort, get higher picks and try and build a team around a new group of guys in their mid 20’s.

What I worry about is the money and time left on the core old guys, combined with chasing the goal record will cause the team to be mediocre, but not quite bottom out.

And with no room to start playing younger guys (as they go for the record), the team will totally fall of a cliff for years when everyone does retire.

 

[Langway]

$26 mil in player/cap out of the lineup is insignificant? Sometimes as a GM you have to accept your fate for a season when things out of your control go against you. We could none in or near that territory.

Only Mantha is on LTIR, though, so again it's not like they're decimated for weeks or months on end. They're up against it right now but that'll change. COVID and suspensions happen to anyone. It's a blip. We'll see about Oshie but the overarching takeaway shouldn't be swayed much based on a given week. More concerning is the overall trend: December was down from November and January is down from December. They have one regulation win in eight games in CY 2022. Injuries are just one component in their regression. For a while they were doing just fine, mostly because the defense remained fully healthy and they'd maintained their D structure/discipline.

You don’t think Backstrom and Oshie are viable options on the third line on a contender? I’m kind of with you about their abilities on a second line but even with them slowing down it seems like they should be able to win their matchups on the third line.

I’m going through the list of contenders and their third lines aren’t exactly full of great players. It takes more than just talent, of course, but even with my pessimism about Backstrom going forward he seems more than adequate to anchor a third line on a championship team.

I think they're probably too slow to match up favorably enough against a FLA/CAR/COL/TBL and maybe even PIT even in lesser roles, in part because they wouldn't just be facing third lines. Backstrom will likely stay at 2C and who knows how long Oshie holds up. Hell, who knows how long either holds up when the intensity ratchets up. So much of how effective the team is generally is based on team defense and I fundamentally don't trust their discipline, IQ and structure to hold up against the deepest, most strenuous tests. With a better starter in net maybe they can hang in there longer. That along with maybe being able to take out some players in an attrition game is their best bet. But they now also have key pieces of their own that may not withstand it. There's ample reason to be skeptical whether they've got more runs left but the GM must focus on doing whatever he can to put them in better position. Any upgrade or strong value trades have to be considered. It's a disservice to Ovechkin to not fully invest every season. They need to be prudent but I don't doubt they're aggressive and maybe even recklessly so. Who knows when the music will stop? There's bound to be pain once that happens regardless of how much they try to safeguard against it.

 

[Hivemind]

So, uh..any chance Ehlers would get over Orlov injuring him, and Mac makes a move for him?

The concept of trading away Vrana one year and then trading for Ehlers the next amuses me greatly.

 

[Cappy76]

The concept of trading away Vrana one year and then trading for Ehlers the next amuses me greatly.

While I see your point Ehlers is a much better all around player compared to Vrana

 

[Hivemind]

If this is true I hope the Caps are making calls.

DeBrincat being available would really surprise me, but I'd love to see him in a Caps sweater.

 

[Hivemind]

While I see your point Ehlers is a much better all around player compared to Vrana

I don't disagree that he's better (he's the "finished" version of the Vrana), but the two players are cut from a very similar cloth in terms of skillset and style.