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NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

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Busher said:
That’s exactly what I was getting at. Kucherov just scored 128 points in the last non-COVID season. On a historically-dominant team nonetheless. As in, 1996 Detroit-level dominant.

I’ve tried looking and looking for what makes McDavid’s season special in a historical context and I just don’t see anything. Nothing that hasn’t just been done by Kucherov.

Now, McDavid had a historical season LAST year with his 150 point pace, and he was justly rewarded for it. But this year, we saw his PPG pace drop from 1.88 to 1.53, while we saw Matthews’ increase from 1.27 to 1.45 while facing the same North competition.

So he didn’t even sustain a dominant scoring pace over others this time around. There has been no “last to do … since Mario Lemieux in 1996” this year. In fact, it appears that all of the Lemieux 1996 references this year are for Matthews’ accomplishments.

McDavid is capable of scoring 140 points. When he does, I’m sure he’ll get that extra recognition again. Or if he scores 120 points again when his competitors are weaker. But I just don’t see it for McDavid in 2022, and I’ve tried looking.
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The award is for "most valuable" not "most improved". They didn't stop awarding it to Gretzky when he put up 183 points instead of 215. I feel like you and a lot of other people are putting unfair standards on McDavid. I truly believe that if any other player in the league was having the season McDavid's having, they would easily be the Hart favorite. It's like because it's McDavid people expect him to be dominating by a specific amount or something. Scoring 123 points while leading the league and dragging your teams to a playoff spot isn't enough.
 
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I'm fine with any of Matthews, Shesterkin, McDavid, Josi, Gaudreau, Kaprizov winning it. But Huberdeau?

Yeah, great season, but his team quite literally does better 5vs5 with him on the bench than him on the ice. And he's the most valuable for his team?
 
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A Huberdeau win would make zero sense, McDavid has been better and more important to his team in literally every facet of the game.

I think ultimately it should come down to McDavid and Matthews. Gaudreau, Josi and Shesterkin have arguments as well.

I don't get why this has boiled down to how "historic/novel" a season your player is having. The award goes to which player is most valuable to their team, and I think that's McDavid.
 
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mcdingdong said:
Everyone wants to point to AM's on-ice sv% as an indicator of how sweet he is defensively, but conveniently forget about stats whenever McDavid's on-ice shooting % being miles behind his career average is brought up. Literally nobody will reply to any comments referring to McDavids historic play driving this season in combination with his rotten luck (I expect because it kills a lot of the other MVP narratives). McD could rightfully expect to have about 20 additional 5x5 pts this year based on career averages. Best play driving season of analytics era, terrible luck.
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Actually people have responded numerous times and it’s pointed out that he has 12 empty net points to make up for that (on ice shooting % isn’t factored in with the goalie pulled) and he plays more than Matthews and stays out on the powerplay longer. Also there’s a difference between looking at goals against which is more of a team/line stat than the amount of points an individual player gets. Goals against is basically 1 half of +/-. The fact that Matthews has an on ice save % of .867 and is still +20 should tell you something, not to mention ranking highly in every defensive metric. The piss poor attempts to paint Matthews as a bad defensive player because of his goals against in a single season while acting like McDavid should have 150 points when this is his career high are ridiculous.
 
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authentic said:
Actually people have responded numerous times and it’s pointed out that he has 12 empty net points to make up for that (on ice shooting % isn’t factored in with the goalie pulled) and he plays more than Matthews and stays out on the powerplay longer. Also there’s a difference between looking at goals against which is more of a team/line stat than the amount of points an individual player gets. Goals against is basically 1 half of +/-. The fact that Matthews has an on ice save % of .867 and is still +20 should tell you something, not to mention ranking highly in every defensive metric. The piss poor attempts to paint Matthews as a bad defensive player because of his goals against in a single season while acting like McDavid should have 150 points when this is his career high are ridiculous.
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The simple answer to this is, nobody cares. At the end of the season people voting don't go back and nitpick every point that the players have gotten. "Huberdeau has scored 6 points when a player was injured on the play, they don't count" is just as ridiculous.
 
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Dust said:
The simple answer to this is, nobody cares. At the end of the season people voting don't go back and nitpick every point that the players have gotten. "Huberdeau has scored 6 points when a player was injured on the play, they don't count" is just as ridiculous.
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lol Exactly.

Anti-fans love to discredit players. The lengths they will go to is crazy and the logic will change from year to year if the player improves on that stat.
 
Dust said:
The simple answer to this is, nobody cares. At the end of the season people voting don't go back and nitpick every point that the players have gotten. "Huberdeau has scored 6 points when a player was injured on the play, they don't count" is just as ridiculous.
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Do you get my point though, he has an unlucky on ice shooting percentage 5 on 5 but scored a lot on an empty net and that probably helps make up for it. In a normal season is he usually getting that many empty net points?
 
Coffey Filter said:
lol Exactly.

Anti-fans love to discredit players. The lengths they will go to is crazy and the logic will change from year to year if the player improves on that stat.
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You must be joking here, yes let’s just give him 20 more points he didn’t score along with his 12 empty netters. No one cares about the points he could’ve scored and no one who knows a thing about hockey still uses goals against to judge individual defensive play
 
authentic said:
Do you get my point though, he has an unlucky on ice shooting percentage 5 on 5 but scored a lot on an empty net and that probably helps make up for it. In a normal season is he usually getting that many empty net points?
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He had 8 last year. If you look at the leaderboard of empty net points, it's all good players. Quite frankly when you can skate like he can, why not put him out there, he can either just skate it out of the zone himself, or win a race to the loose pucks. As far as I'm concerned those guys have earned the empty net points, they're sealing a victory for their teams.
 
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Dust said:
He had 8 last year. If you look at the leaderboard of empty net points, it's all good players. Quite frankly when you can skate like he can, why not put him out there, he can either just skate it out of the zone himself, or win a race to the loose pucks. As far as I'm concerned those guys have earned the empty net points, they're sealing a victory for their teams.
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Exactly. How many teams have given up their lead or failed to score? There is a reason teams pull their goalie....it gives them an advantage and it is still up to the opposition to fight through it.....and they don't always do it.

But this is a pecker measuring contest. The worst part is.....it isn't even their own people are measuring.
 
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authentic said:
Actually people have responded numerous times and it’s pointed out that he has 12 empty net points to make up for that (on ice shooting % isn’t factored in with the goalie pulled) and he plays more than Matthews and stays out on the powerplay longer. Also there’s a difference between looking at goals against which is more of a team/line stat than the amount of points an individual player gets. Goals against is basically 1 half of +/-. The fact that Matthews has an on ice save % of .867 and is still +20 should tell you something, not to mention ranking highly in every defensive metric. The piss poor attempts to paint Matthews as a bad defensive player because of his goals against in a single season while acting like McDavid should have 150 points when this is his career high are ridiculous.
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He has 4 more empty net points than he had last season, which makes sense as he has played significantly more games this season. 12 EN points is actually right in line with what you would expect based on last season.
I don't know what him playing more than Matthews or having more powerplay TOI has to do with McDavids 5x5 production, which is what I was referring to.
I have never tried to characterize Matthews as a "piss poor" defensive player. I am beginning to question your reading comprehension to be honest.
Finally, the reason people are saying McDavid likely deserves more points this season is because that is what the advanced stats indicate. Full stop. When you look at his career averages and apply them to the monstrous play driving season he has had (again, the best in analytics era, the only remotely close competition being some of his own previous seasons), you find that he deserves roughly 20-odd more points. I do not understand why this is so hard to comprehend.
 
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mcdingdong said:
He has 4 more empty net points than he had last season, which makes sense as he has played significantly more games this season. 12 EN points is actually right in line with what you would expect based on last season.
I don't know what him playing more than Matthews or having more powerplay TOI has to do with McDavids 5x5 production, which is what I was referring to.
I have never tried to characterize Matthews as a "piss poor" defensive player. I am beginning to question your reading comprehension to be honest.
Finally, the reason people are saying McDavid likely deserves more points this season is because that is what the advanced stats indicate. Full stop. When you look at his career averages and apply them to the monstrous play driving season he has had (again, the best in analytics era, the only remotely close competition being some of his own previous seasons), you find that he deserves roughly 20-odd more points. I do not understand why this is so hard to comprehend.
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Full stop when has anyone ever tried to use this to say a player should’ve had 20 more points until Matthews was close to McDavid in points per game? You realize players have more control of their on ice shooting percentage than they do their goalies save % correct? This is not to say you were saying anything about Matthews specifically I’m referring in general to many other posters who were doing that, these two things are not comparable is what my point is and no it’s far from a given McDavid should have anywhere close to 20 more points right now.
 
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Busher said:
Malkin PPG 1.45
Stamkos PPG 1.18

McDavid PPG 1.54
Matthews PPG 1.45

And Malkin scored 50 goals, so even though he didn’t get the all-time-greatness-defining 60 goals, he still hit the magical 50 goal milestone. McDavid didn’t score 50, let alone 60.

And Matthews hit both the magical 50 goal and 100 point milestones, whereas Stamkos didn’t hit 100 when he scored 60.
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Stamkos was second in league scoring when he hit 60 goals. He only missed 100 points because it was a lower scoring season: only 1 player hit 100 points that year, which was a peak Malkin. This year we already have eight players hitting 100 points and a significantly higher GPG average league wide.

Matthews on the other hand will finish 5th or 6th in league scoring. That is less impressive.

And no, Matthews is not in the same stratosphere defensively as Fedorov was.
 
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GoldenKnight said:
Stamkos was second in league scoring when he hit 60 goals. He only missed 100 points because it was a lower scoring season: only 1 player hit 100 points that year, which was a peak Malkin. This year we already have eight players hitting 100 points and a significantly higher GPG average league wide.
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I don't see how that affects anything that guy said. The difference in PPG between Matthews and McDavid is still smaller than that of Stamkos vs Malkin. Sure Matthews isn't 2nd in league scoring but how much of that is due to injuries/suspension that saw him miss 9 games?

Matthews on the other hand will finish 5th or 6th in league scoring. That is less impressive.
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Again, with a -9 game handicap. Everyone around him will have played at least 80 games. That he was able to be in the top 5~ in scoring despite so much time missed is a point in his favour, not against him.

And no, Matthews is not in the same stratosphere defensively as Fedorov was.
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No but he's a right sight better than McDavid in that regard, so much so that it can't be ignored.

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Jimmy Firecracker said:
I don't see how that affects anything that guy said. The difference in PPG between Matthews and McDavid is still smaller than that of Stamkos vs Malkin. Sure Matthews isn't 2nd in league scoring but how much of that is due to injuries/suspension that saw him miss 9 games?



Again, with a -9 game handicap. Everyone around him will have played at least 80 games. That he was able to be in the top 5~ in scoring despite so much time missed is a point in his favour, not against him.



No but he's a right sight better than McDavid in that regard, so much so that it can't be ignored.

View attachment 537823View attachment 537824
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WTF IS THIS?!

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WetcoastOrca said:
How cool is that!
I wonder if McDavid will bring it to Vancouver as well.
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McDavid is not going to win it. The media narrative around Matthews is set and voter fatigue will take care of the rest. Matthews will be a worthy Hart winner this year.
 
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