Is that Semin in pink?This thread is sight to behold. Only the most zealous of fan bois remain.
Last edited:
NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy
- Thread starter koyvoo
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2005
- 9,610
- 16,317
Excluding 2022, there have been 17 seasons in NHL history where only one player scored 60 goals.
7 times, that player won the Hart trophy. In 6 of those cases they also won the Art Ross (the only exception was Brett Hull, who finished 2nd in scoring to Gretzky).
There have been 6 times in NHL history where there was only one 60 goal scorer, and he finished 3rd (or lower) in scoring. None of them won the Hart trophy.
We'll see if Matthews breaks these trends. (As I've said several times, he's one of several players who has a valid Hart argument. I suspect, at a minimum, he'll be a finalist for the Hart and Lindsay).
Malkin PPG 1.45
Stamkos PPG 1.18
McDavid PPG 1.53
Matthews PPG 1.45
And Malkin scored 50 goals, so even though he didn’t get the all-time-greatness-defining 60 goals, he still hit the magical 50 goal milestone. McDavid didn’t score 50, let alone 60.
And Matthews hit both the magical 50 goal and 100 point milestones, whereas Stamkos didn’t hit 100 when he scored 60.
And Malkin led his team to 4th in the standings, just like Matthews. McDavid’s team is outside the top 10, and Stamkos missed the playoffs.
I see this race as more of a 1994 Fedorov-Gretzky race, which is even more appropriate given Matthews is scoring like this also as a two-way elite defensive centerman, like Fedorov.
And this is before you get into narratives and historical achievements like 50 in 50.
Oh boy!
‘The key area of Matthews’ defensive game needing the most improvement, especially given that once again Patrice Bergeron tops the league in this statistic is the number of high-danger chances given up per 60 minutes (HDCA/60). Matthews is a lowly 103rd on the list, expecting to give up 9.92 HDCA/60.’
Except that when taking in historical context, all of those seasons were clumped between 1970-1996. That’s a lot of seasons where someone scored 60. The 70’s, 80’s and 90’s averaged 12 60 goal scorers per decade. Voters won’t reward 60 goal scorers the same when someone did the exact same thing the year before. Since then, we’ve only had 1 60 goal scorer per decade.
It just doesn’t happen anymore, and the further time has passed, it makes it more special when someone like Matthews actually hits the 60 goal milestone.
We don’t learn anything from how 60 goal scorers were treated in Hart voting in the 80’s and 90’s. Even compared to Ovechkin and Stamkos, when the 90’s were more a fresh memory. 2022 is a whole new ballgame.
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
McDavid is listed as 1.54 by NHL.com.
Matthews has also played the least games of all four players.
X66
114-110
- Aug 18, 2008
- 13,585
- 7,462
Oh boy!
‘The key area of Matthews’ defensive game needing the most improvement, especially given that once again Patrice Bergeron tops the league in this statistic is the number of high-danger chances given up per 60 minutes (HDCA/60). Matthews is a lowly 103rd on the list, expecting to give up 9.92 HDCA/60.’
Are you done embarrassing yourself?
If looking just at forwards that have played 500 mins, Matthews is 77th
Ahead of the following players:
Marner(84th)
Cirelli (85th)
Kopitar (148th)
McDavid(210th)
Toews (226th)
Barkov (231st)
Draisaitl(304th)
Danault (330th)
Barzal (349th)
If you combine the high danger chances for against, he's 5th best in the the entire league for forwards.
At xGA, Matthews is 14th out of all forwards.
X66
114-110
- Aug 18, 2008
- 13,585
- 7,462
Stamkos' team also missed the playoffs by a ton, the Leafs are a top 5 NHL team.
Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
OilerTyler
Disgruntled
Yeah, point-per-game stats don't really matter for the Hart when you miss a bunch of games. Being out of the lineup makes you less valuable to your team, not more.
Regardless, the media is going to vote for the player that will give their articles the most clicks.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
I think the fact Kucherov had a 128 point season more recently than a 60 goal season speaks volumes of how special the 60 goals is.
If it becomes semi regular then I'd take less stock.
I am full in on Matthews Hart talk.
What is incredible is how well McDavid pushed at the end to make this a conversation.
Josi gets my 3rd place.
Shesterkin can take 4th.
mcdingdong
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2019
- 295
- 487
Everyone wants to point to AM's on-ice sv% as an indicator of how sweet he is defensively, but conveniently forget about stats whenever McDavid's on-ice shooting % being miles behind his career average is brought up. Literally nobody will reply to any comments referring to McDavids historic play driving this season in combination with his rotten luck (I expect because it kills a lot of the other MVP narratives). McD could rightfully expect to have about 20 additional 5x5 pts this year based on career averages. Best play driving season of analytics era, terrible luck.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 56,887
- 49,549
X66
114-110
- Aug 18, 2008
- 13,585
- 7,462
- Apr 27, 2005
- 36,103
- 35,938
SupremeTeam16
5-14-6-1
If you took any player who’s receiving consideration and switched their season with Mcdavid I bet you’d have a near unanimous winner.
It’s gotta be one of the most interesting years for Hart consideration. Imo a case can be made for all of these guys but personally it would come down to either Josi or Shersterkin, both are having pretty historic seasons and are far more valuable to their teams then any of the forwards in the convo. Take either of those guys away and their team likely goes from playoff team to lottery team.
It’s gotta be one of the most interesting years for Hart consideration. Imo a case can be made for all of these guys but personally it would come down to either Josi or Shersterkin, both are having pretty historic seasons and are far more valuable to their teams then any of the forwards in the convo. Take either of those guys away and their team likely goes from playoff team to lottery team.
Fair. But it's been far longer than 10 years since a dman has had a season like Josi or anyone scored 90 ES points. Tbh, McDavid is the only outlier. If you give it to him, why even have a Hart? It's just a second art ross.
That’s exactly what I was getting at. Kucherov just scored 128 points in the last non-COVID season. On a historically-dominant team nonetheless. As in, 1996 Detroit-level dominant.
I’ve tried looking and looking for what makes McDavid’s season special in a historical context and I just don’t see anything. Nothing that hasn’t just been done by Kucherov.
Now, McDavid had a historical season LAST year with his 150 point pace, and he was justly rewarded for it. But this year, we saw his PPG pace drop from 1.88 to 1.53, while we saw Matthews’ increase from 1.27 to 1.45 while facing the same North competition.
So he didn’t even sustain a dominant scoring pace over others this time around. There has been no “last to do … since Mario Lemieux in 1996” this year. In fact, it appears that all of the Lemieux 1996 references this year are for Matthews’ accomplishments.
McDavid is capable of scoring 140 points. When he does, I’m sure he’ll get that extra recognition again. Or if he scores 120 points again when his competitors are weaker. But I just don’t see it for McDavid in 2022, and I’ve tried looking.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
I mean, Karlsson finished 4th in the league in points in 2016 while leading the league in assists.
Offensively, a far more dominating year.
- Apr 20, 2016
- 6,384
- 7,423
The Art Ross winner more often than not tends to be the best player in the league. The way the Hart Trophy is interpreted by voters, half of the players in the league are automatically disqualified by the fact they didn't make the playoffs. Maybe the league needs to update the wording on the Hart Trophy. More often than not the winner is the "best" player, not necessarily the most valuable player to their teams.
Drytoast
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2017
- 6,602
- 4,819
Interesting. So 7 first place votes for Huberdeau, 4 for Matthews and 3 for McDavid.
That’s a bit strange.
Cup or Bust
Registered User
- Oct 17, 2017
- 4,626
- 4,186
I would agree with you 100% except that McDavid is immensely responsible for his team's success, likely more then any other player in the league. They were almost out of the playoffs until he turned it on. When he slumped the team was 2-11-2 or something along those lines. He then went on a 15 game point streak and scored 6 game winning goals. Turned the whole season around. Certainly it was not only him and I don't believe the Hart should just go to the best player on the worst team but the Oilers have 48 wins. They are a good team and he will win the Art Ross. I am not saying Josi shouldn't win it, but McDavid has a better case then just winning the Art Ross. He defines the award more so then players like Matthews or Huberdeau. Not to say those guys are not very valuable players but those teams are far better constructed teams then the Oilers are and would still be pretty good teams without them. The difference from 48 wins the Oilers would have without McDavid I feel is greater then the difference in wins those teams would have without those players. Again, not saying McDavid should win it, I am just saying he shouldn't win just because he got the Art Ross. Even if he was second in scoring he deserves to be nominated due to "Being the most valuable player to his team" (In my opinion of course), along with having a great season. I would make the same case against McDavid winning if the scenario was the opposite, that is just how I feel about how the Hart should handed out. Josi I believe also fits how I view the Hart Trophy should be handed out so I think he is a great candidate as well and would be very deserving. I guess it just depends what criteria a person feels should be used to award the trophy.
I think Matthews is winning it though.
Last edited:
