NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

[authentic]

Why would you only have 1 to choose from though? There’s literally nothing special about those first 50 games - Why would you need to get it in your first 50 games?

It's special because there only being 50 games in the season when it first happened, like you said in your second paragraph. Of course its being compared to that, I don't think that was ever in doubt, you can recognize that it's a great feat while recongizing that is slightly less great than the official records.​

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I don't really understand why you keep circling back to the other seasons. So if you play 10 years you get 10 attempts to match Richard and Gretzky, et al. Whereas you get 330 attempts over those 10 seasons with all other available stretches of 50 games to match Matthews and others who have done it that way. This doesn't disprove that there is a difference in difficulty/probability between the two, nor does it say that the way Matthews did it is poor and he is crap. There's a middle ground in there somewhere.

No there is not a difference in difficulty or probability any more than than there would be if you looked at every other 50 game stretch in a modern NHL season but 1, that’s the point.

You have a better chance of scoring 50 in 50 in every other 50 game interval in a season combined except game 20-70 for example, 1-50 is an arbitrary time frame and doing it from the beginning of the season isn’t harder when it’s just one of your 33 chances.

 

[RavenGuard]

Well, Florida, Toronto, Tampa & Boston sure destroyed the Pacific this season, as is evidenced by their 42-19-4 record against them. Who cares how Buffalo, Montreal & Ottawa did? LOL. The top four teams in the Atlantic OWN the Pacific.

And? That's irrelevant.

 

[kevsh]

If the 60 goals doesn't lock the Hart for Auston, consider:

- Matthews is in the top 20 in the league on faceoffs (depending on how you limit eligibility, he's closer to top 10)
- 1st in the league for takeaways (the next four after him are defensemen and 20 more than the next forward)
- Top 10 in advanced states like Corsi For
- 2nd highest PPG in the league behind McDavid (in the same # of GP would be trailing McDavid by 8 points, roughly 1 point every 10 games)
- Tied for #2 in GWG (Leon is #1)
- 44 ES goals (Ovi in his 65 goal season had 41 by comparison)

I.e. He doesn't win this just on his remarkable 60 goals alone.

 

[sepHF]

Taylor Hall 3-4 years ago.

Matthews is doing the right thing by resting for the playoffs. He’s already won enough games for his team to clinch their spot, thereby earning the right to rest a meaningless game. He’s also already accomplished everything he needs to do in 73 games, and doesn’t need to play anymore.

PPG wise, he finishes the season at 1.45. 2nd in the NHL for those having played at least 50 games.

ahh right - i misremembered, thought he finished 5th but he was 6th

 

[Kamus]

Taylor Hall 3-4 years ago.

Matthews is doing the right thing by resting for the playoffs. He’s already won enough games for his team to clinch their spot, thereby earning the right to rest a meaningless game. He’s also already accomplished everything he needs to do in 73 games, and doesn’t need to play anymore.

PPG wise, he finishes the season at 1.45. 2nd in the NHL for those having played at least 50 games.

Issue with Comparing Halls case is that the leading scorer that year would have won it but didn’t because his team didn’t make the playoffs… which this year they will.

 

[Macheteops]

No there is not a difference in difficulty or probability any more than than there would be if you looked at every other 50 game stretch in a modern NHL season but 1, that’s the point.

You have a better chance of scoring 50 in 50 in every other 50 game interval in a season combined except game 20-70 for example, 1-50 is an arbitrary time frame and doing it from the beginning of the season isn’t harder when it’s just one of your 33 chances.

100% it’s harder at the beginning of the season. You have no grace period. If you start out scoreless in 5 games you’re in a deep hole

If you go scoreless in 5 games at another point in the year you just start counting once you have a good game. You pretty much eliminate a slow start

 

[Chukcha]

the caps are literally nothing without Ovi. He's a real MVP.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Johnny Hockey has had the best 5 on 5 season since Gretzky, Jagr and Lemieux in their primes.

Does there really need to be more said?

 

[X66]

Johnny Hockey has had the best 5 on 5 season since Gretzky, Jagr and Lemieux in their primes.

Does there really need to be more said?

That will have him in the convo for sure.

But 60 goals in 73 games > Gaudreau’s season.

 

[Regal]

100% it’s harder at the beginning of the season. You have no grace period. If you start out scoreless in 5 games you’re in a deep hole

If you go scoreless in 5 games at another point in the year you just start counting once you have a good game. You pretty much eliminate a slow start

There’s less chance someone will do it at the beginning of the season than they will do it “at some point in the season”, because you’re comparing one 50 game segment to 31 other 50 game segments, but it’s not harder to do at the beginning of the season than in any one of those other individual 50 game segments in terms of actual difficulty within the games themselves.

 

[Holymakinaw]

And? That's irrelevant.

It's very relevant. It means your Division is WEAK.

 

[TheStatican]

Good post, and going back 25 years the only forwards to not win the Hart after bagging 122+ and winning the Art Ross were Hasek in ‘97 and Fedorov (a real elite defensive player) in his Selke year. Shesterkin unfortunately doesn’t have the GP and Matthews isn’t Fedorov in any respect so it should be an open and shut case.

Why use 25 years as the cut off? (And Fedorov's win was 28 years ago btw). The reason why you have to go back so far is obvious, thanks to the dead puck era those scoring totals were rarely achieved. But if we go back just a little futher into the last high scoring era when such total were achieved your argument falls to peices with multiple examples(4 consecutive years!) of the scoring leader being over 122 and not winning the Hart.

-Messier won in 89-90 & 91-92, despite being 13 and 24 points behind the scoring leader(s).
-Hull won in 90-91 despite being 32 points behind the scoring leader!
-And Gretzky won in 88-89 despite also being over 30 points behind the scoring leader

 

[5 14 6 1]

Thank zeus you don't have a ballot

Why? Whats your ballot?

 

[PostBradMalone]

Why use 25 years as the cut off? (And Fedorov's win was 28 years ago btw). The reason why you have to go back so far is obvious, thanks to the dead puck era those scoring totals were rarely achieved. But if we go back just a little futher into the last high scoring era when such total were achieved your argument falls to peices with multiple examples(4 consecutive years!) of the scoring leader being over 122 and not winning the Hart.

-Messier won in 89-90 & 91-92, despite being 13 and 24 points behind the scoring leader(s).
-Hull won in 90-91 despite being 32 points behind the scoring leader!
-And Gretzky won in 88-89 despite also being over 30 points behind the scoring leader

“Let’s compare an era that is nothing like today to the present, SURELY that will bolster my case!”

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Lmao, with the new millennial math, 33 tries vs one try, and he missed games in the middle of the feat, so wasn’t even in 50 leaf games in the middle of the season, it was over a 52 game leafs span, as he was suspended, in the middle.

No you only have one chance from the game he started at.

 

[TheStatican]

“Let’s compare an era that is nothing like today to the present, SURELY that will bolster my case!”

Wow yes because the game of hockey has somehow fundamentally change since then.

Explain to me how that is any way less relevant then this seasons example when we are simply talking about point differences.

Also your the one that used an example from 28 years ago, as if going futher back an extra 4 years changes the era lmao

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

No there is not a difference in difficulty or probability any more than than there would be if you looked at every other 50 game stretch in a modern NHL season but 1, that’s the point.

You have a better chance of scoring 50 in 50 in every other 50 game interval in a season combined except game 20-70 for example, 1-50 is an arbitrary time frame and doing it from the beginning of the season isn’t harder when it’s just one of your 33 chances.

There is one thing that makes it "harder" which is simply the guarantee of starting at one (vs you may or may not start at one when you set the arbitrary date). Beyond that it's merely arbitrary.

 

[PostBradMalone]

Wow yes because the game of hockey has somehow fundamentally change since then.

Explain to me how that is any way less relevant then this seasons example when we are simply talking about point differences.

Also your the one that used an example from 28 years ago, as if going futher back an extra 4 years changes the era lmao

Did it ever cross your mind that having to go back 32 years to find a similar scenario to Matthews/McDavid where the former comes out on top in the Hart race probably is a sign that it’s not likely? Not once?

 

[Garbageyuk]

Copium. you know you are not arguing with the poster you quoted but to the hockey experts that he quoted?

You are not a hockey expert last I checked. Nobody is quoting you in articles...last I checked. You are just a voice on these boards who's currently suffering from copium. Last I checked.

View attachment 537095

It's very likely a Toronto Maple Leaf is going to win the Hart this year. I know, I know...that sucks. No Toronto Maple Leaf deserves to win anything at anytime because their fan base pisses you off but here we are.

Copium.

Copium.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Besides their names. I'd really like to know Connors case Over gaudreau who has a couple less points but 90 es points....

 

[Macheteops]

Besides their names. I'd really like to know Connors case Over gaudreau who has a couple less points but 90 es points....

He’s over 6 feet tall. Big plus for the female voters

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Johnny Gaudreau hitting 90 ES points before anyone else hit 80.


This is more impressive than 60 goals or 120 points.


+65 is equally nutty.

 

[Sinistril]

What do you do when the art ross winner doesn't have much of a case over at least 3 forwards? Gotta give it to Josi.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Johnny Gaudreau hitting 90 ES points before anyone else hit 80.


This is more impressive than 60 goals or 120 points.


+65 is equally nutty.

Do you know how many are 5 v 5 as opposed to 4 v4 out of the 90?

 

[Bank Shot]

Do you know how many are 5 v 5 as opposed to 4 v4 out of the 90?

72