NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

[oXo Cube]

Just out of curiosity, what (if any) outside of the special point total Huberdeau has this season marks him as a Hart finalist? His might be the name that needs to drop out of the top 3, unfortunately.

When I think Matthews, there's the obvious 60 goals, but then the fact that number occured in 73 games (with the tally through 50 games over 2 seasons being high). Equally impressive is that he shattered the goal record for an original 6 franchise. And broke 100 pts.

When it comes to McDavid, a plus 40 goal season and leading the league in the Art Ross race with a performance that surpasses Crosby's best point total.

Finally, marking Gaudreau's special season are a +63 (currently, will likely go up even), which rivals epic years from Forsberg (2003 I believe) but with even more points and a better +/- than "Peter the Great" to his credit. And then his even strength points which one has to go back to the 90s (or further now) to find something comparable (don't have the latest stats on that). Is 3rd in Art Ross points (currently only 9 pts back of the leader McDavid). Tied for 3rd in game-winning goals (at last check with 9). High on the primary assist leader board. And will likely break 40 goals himself (sitting at 39 currently with 2 games left).

What makes Huberdeau's season extra special outside of sitting 2nd in the Art Ross race (a phenomenal year to be sure).

Huberdeau briefly sat down at the table about a week ago when he streaked hot enough to catch McDavid for a day. I don't think there are many out there seriously considering him now.

This is a two horse race between Matthews and McDavid. I think Gaudreau will be a consensus but decently distant third with Shesterkin and Josi receiving the bulk of the pity votes.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Not only is Matthews likely to finish 15-20 points out of the scoring lead, the guy leading the league in scoring is more valuable to the success of his team. Matthews has had a spectacular season but I have yet to see a player finish that far behind in the scoring race combined with being less of an actual MVP to his team win the Hart. The Ted Lindsey award would be more justifiable.

 

[J bo Jeans]

Mcdavid has 10 PPG (44 PP points) and 12 EN points (7 goals)

Matthews has 16 PPG (29 PP points) and 3 EN points (all goals)

Mcdavid has 27 goals at even strength and he has 38 assists (without the EN)

Matthews has 41 goals at even strength and 33 assists at even strength. (Without the EN)

I left out defensive stats because it isn’t close at all.

This is with Matthews playing 6 less games.

Matthews>Mcdavid

What are the defensive stats? That Matthews has been on for more 5 v 5 goals against than Mcdavid?

 

[Cup or Bust]

What are the defensive stats? That Matthews has been on for more 5 v 5 goals against than Mcdavid?

Matthews has better excuses for being on the ice for more goals against based on advanced stats. Being a great defensive player doesn't mean actually stopping goals, it's about having good excuses for not stopping goals. At least according to people on here.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yup. Bure was a great player. But he was also a one dimensional shooting winger. Brett Hull another great pure shooter. The next time a strong two center scores 60 goals (in 73 gp) is 58% in the dot, leads the league in takeaways will be along time

A two way center that is 32 assists behind McDavid (almost 70% fewer assists)?He’s been a much better playmaker this year but still has a long way to go to catch up with the elite playmakers and the Selke level forwards.
His bread and butter like Bure is still his goal scoring. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[LivingRentFree]

What are the defensive stats? That Matthews has been on for more 5 v 5 goals against than Mcdavid?

. Yeah, has nothing to do with record low Save %.

You can try spin it any way you want, like oilers fans do, but I’m pretty sure Matthews is ahead in every personal stat defensively. I bet he could throw the pads on and stop more floaters than Mrazek too.

 

[Video Nasty]

As someone pointed out, using your technique, someone else is then shooting for 70+ and we are right back to the same conversation, about how rare it is for someone to ever hit 70.

I'm not sure people yet get how wide the gap is/has been. If you only look at raw numbers, it seems close. If you look at time played, the gap is pretty large. Obviously you have to play the time to get the numbers but in this world where you are giving other players more games, it helps to know they are already getting more "games" and still struggling to finish within 10 - 20% of Matthews. So likewise, one would expect him to go into more rarified air. Also, you'd have to give everyone in the past "a few more games" in which case you'd probably see more people do better as well.

If you read the context of the post I wrote and what I quoted, you would see that I was merely commenting on the original poster not thinking anyone else was capable of even 60 in 82.

And that goes to anyone else quoting me or saying “hfboards finds a way” when I mentioned Drai having 55 in 79.

I’m not saying they’re close to Matthews’ 60 in 73. I’m saying that in some cases, they’re within striking distance of 60 and going forward, how can one think only Matthews is going to be able to pot 60 in the coming seasons if scoring is what it is now or continues to tick upwards?

Sprinkle in more context of myself understanding the person I quoted a little more afterwards. And yes, I find Ovechkin’s 65 and Stamkos’ 60 slightly more impressive as it stands today…but when I keep saying Stamkos has earned the right at the round table of discussion, I recognize what he has done and that it can all be debated.

But you’d (or anyone else, I’m only quoting you directly) have to actually read the posts to glean all that, instead of seeing red the moment there’s a perceived threat to #34.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

A two way center that is 32 assists behind McDavid? He’s been a much better playmaker this year but still has a long way to go to catch up with the elite guys.

Two way center as in he actually cares about the back 1/4 of the ice.

 

[J bo Jeans]

. Yeah, has nothing to do with record low Save %.

You can try spin it any way you want, like oilers fans do, but I’m pretty sure Matthews is ahead in every personal stat defensively. I bet he could throw the pads on and stop more floaters than Mrazek too.

See the goalies save percentage is on par with Mcdavids linemates shooting percentage.

If Mcdavids linemates shot at their career averages and not record lows like this year, Mcdavid would have 18 more points and this discussion wouldnt be close.

 

[Old Boys Club]

Writers are a funny bunch and 75% wont vote honestly, the ones who want Matthews to win will put McDavid 5th and vice-versa, this could be a year the player with the most 2nd place votes swoops in and takes it.

Very poor mechanism design. Honest reporting is not incentivized in NHL awards voting. Not like it matters at all anyways

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Stamkos scored 60 goals and didn’t get the Hart nor the Lindsay (then Pearson I think). Malking outscored him by 12pts. McDavid has a 16pts lead on Matthews. This will be hard to overcome even with 60 goals.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Two way center as in he actually cares about the back 1/4 of the ice.

It’s nice that he cares. Now if only he allowed fewer goals while he was on the ice.

 

[mcdingdong]

So you're okay with using the analytics argument but the same analytics have Matthews as a top 5 defensive forward in the league by expected goal metrics and possession metrics but that does not suit your argument, does it?

Think you mistook me for someone else, I haven't been dumping on AM's defensive game at all. However, if his impact were so great going both ways, why isn't he the one in the midst of the best play driving season in the analytics era?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Stamkos scored 60 goals and didn’t get the Hart nor the Lindsay (then Pearson I think). Malking outscored him by 12pts. McDavid has a 16pts lead on Matthews. This will be hard to overcome even with 60 goals.

A. Stamkos didn't make the playoffs.
B. Crosby missed 60 games which greatly helped malkin in the Hart race
C. 60 in 73>60 in 82
D. 50 in 50
E. Stamkos didn't score 100 while papi is well over
F. Matthews leads the league in takeaways
G. He plays for the biggest market in hockey

E

 

[PostBradMalone]

Mcdavid has 10 PPG (44 PP points) and 12 EN points (7 goals)

Matthews has 16 PPG (29 PP points) and 3 EN points (all goals)

It’s too bad Keefe doesn’t trust Matthews enough to put him out with his team defending a lead in the last minute of a game.

 

[Holymakinaw]

If Mcdavids linemates shot at their career averages and not record lows like this year, Mcdavid would have 18 more points and this discussion wouldnt be close.

And if my Grandma had wheels, she'd be a bike.

 

[TheDoldrums]

It’s too bad Keefe doesn’t trust Matthews enough to put him out with his team defending a lead in the last minute of a game.

he's out there quite often when that situation occurs actually, I guess if he scored less goals there would be more close games tho

 

[LivingRentFree]

It’s too bad Keefe doesn’t trust Matthews enough to put him out with his team defending a lead in the last minute of a game.

If only that were the real reason Mcdavid and Draisaitl were out with an empty net……

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Mcdavid has 10 PPG (44 PP points) and 12 EN points (7 goals)

Matthews has 16 PPG (29 PP points) and 3 EN points (all goals)

Mcdavid has 27 goals at even strength and he has 38 assists (without the EN)

Matthews has 41 goals at even strength and 33 assists at even strength. (Without the EN)

I left out defensive stats because it isn’t close at all.

This is with Matthews playing 6 less games.

Matthews>Mcdavid

So what you’re saying is that McDavid is better on the power play, is trusted more late in the game to protect a one goal lead, didn’t miss games because of injury or a dumb play that got him suspended and has fewer even strength points because he plays with far inferior linemates.
Sorry, who are you arguing for again?

 

[PostBradMalone]

If only that were the real reason Mcdavid and Draisaitl were out with an empty net……

To put away the other team and ensure a win? That would make one or both of them pretty darn valuable to their team if they did that a lot, eh? More valuable, let’s say, than someone who doesn’t…

 

[J bo Jeans]

And if my Grandma had wheels, she'd be a bike.

and if Matthews was actually head and shoulders above Mcdavid defensively he wouldnt have been scored on more 5 v 5 than Mcdavid.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I don't recall a season like this ever and I'm an old timer (age wise lol).

Same. Been watching since 70's.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It’s nice that he cares. Now if only he allowed fewer goals while he was on the ice.

"He"?

 

[Holymakinaw]

and if Matthews was actually head and shoulders above Mcdavid defensively he wouldnt have been scored on more 5 v 5 than Mcdavid.

Sure he would've. Because there are OTHER players on the team, like D-men and a Goalie. And he's also in a really good Division, perhaps unlike McDavid.

But for the record, I'm not one of the ones proclaiming that Matthews is better, or that he's the only one who deserves the Hart. McDavid could easily win it too(or Josi) and I'd be fine with that.

I'm just here to slap down dumb comments. So............"hi".

 

[WetcoastOrca]

"He"?

Yes. The Leafs have a strong D this year that is better than the Oilers and their goaltending has been at least as good as the Oilers. He needs to be better defensively.