Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 80,926
- 53,744
I didn't say he's a lock. He'd get my vote and I think he'll win it but there are others having great years.
NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy
- Thread starter koyvoo
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Turns out scoring at a .800+ goals per game pace has only been done 33 times since 1945, by just 16 players. That’s averaging 8 goals every 10 games.
If it felt like Matthews was scoring every game, that’s because he joined the club this year. (Then again, 50 in 50 would’ve already told you he was averaging a goal a game).
Bobby Hull
Phil Esposito
Mike Bossy
Charlie Simmer
Wayne Gretzky
Lanny McDonald
Jari Kurri
Mario Lemieux
Steve Yzerman
Bernie Nicholls
Brett Hull
Pat Lafontaine
Teemu Selanne
Alex Mogilny
Cam Neely
Auston Matthews
That’s it. No Ovechkin, no Stamkos. And since 1994, only Mario Lemieux and Auston Matthews have scored at a .800+ goals per game pace. This is historic.
The points per game comparison would be 1.76 PPG, having been done 33 times since 1945. In terms of rarity, Matthews’ goals per game pace this year is equivalent to scoring at a 144 point pace over a full season.
Last year, McDavid had the historic season and rightfully won the Hart. This year, it’s only Matthews having the historic season.
If it felt like Matthews was scoring every game, that’s because he joined the club this year. (Then again, 50 in 50 would’ve already told you he was averaging a goal a game).
Bobby Hull
Phil Esposito
Mike Bossy
Charlie Simmer
Wayne Gretzky
Lanny McDonald
Jari Kurri
Mario Lemieux
Steve Yzerman
Bernie Nicholls
Brett Hull
Pat Lafontaine
Teemu Selanne
Alex Mogilny
Cam Neely
Auston Matthews
That’s it. No Ovechkin, no Stamkos. And since 1994, only Mario Lemieux and Auston Matthews have scored at a .800+ goals per game pace. This is historic.
The points per game comparison would be 1.76 PPG, having been done 33 times since 1945. In terms of rarity, Matthews’ goals per game pace this year is equivalent to scoring at a 144 point pace over a full season.
Last year, McDavid had the historic season and rightfully won the Hart. This year, it’s only Matthews having the historic season.
Nadal On Clay
Djokovic > Nadal > Federer
- Oct 11, 2017
- 3,249
- 3,124
People have to stop comparing 2012 Stamkos to Matthews. Stamkos’ team missed the playoffs the year he scored 60. That basically disqualified him for the Hart.
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
last year McDavid finished 2nd in goals and 1st in assists
Mattthews will finish 1st in goals and currently 37th in assists
its a horrible comparison
Nadal On Clay
Djokovic > Nadal > Federer
- Oct 11, 2017
- 3,249
- 3,124
Per game stats don’t matter when discussing who was more valuable to his team.
Also, of the players you’ve listed, only 1/3 of them won a Hart…
jigglysquishy
Registered User
This, of course, ignores scoring levels. It's no coincidence that it's happening in the highest scoring year in 26 seasons.
When Ovechkin scored 65, 10 players had 40 goals or more. When Stamkos scored 60, 4 players had 40 or more goals. This season, it's 14+.
When Bure scored 58 in 74 games, second place was 44 goals.
Last edited:
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,964
- 10,516
Context matters though, especially when it comes to Hart voters and the narrative.
1. Crosby missed 60 games that year and Malkin rocked it by leading that Pens team with 50 goals of his own and 109 points in 75 games to the 4th best record across the entire league. Again, with Crosby missing 60 games.
2. Right or wrong, we had also just seen Ovechkin pot 65 just four seasons prior. This season is the first time we’ve seen 60 goals in 10 seasons. Even though scoring is higher, it’s simply a bit more fresh to see someone do it now, even though it is “easier” in today’s environment.
3. The Lightning didn’t make the playoffs and finished 10th in the East, out by 8 points, and never a serious threat to make it.
4. While Stamkos was the second leading scorer, he still didn’t crack 100, a huge psychological number.
5. Malkin’s case was bulletproof. He was first on 144 out of 149 ballots. He checked every box. Never won before. Art Ross winner with a big cushion. Top team despite the commonly recognized best player missing 75% of the season. 50 goal scorer. 2nd in goals, 3rd in assists, 1st in PPG. For the people who love pace and projections, he could have flirted with 120 points when no one else cracked 100. He had it all.
Compare all that to this year and the context around it.
1. Matthews, as mentioned, is the first 60 goal scorer in a decade. He also cleared 100 points doing it.
2. The Leafs have the 5th most points in the league.
3. McDavid won the Hart last season and already has 2 to his name. I suspect voters know they’re likely to vote for him to win another or two regardless before he exits his 20s. Everyone knows he’s the best and sometimes they want to recognize other individuals. Even though McDavid’s campaign is insanely impressive, the toddlers we refer to as media journalists need a new shiny toy every couple of years. They are less likely to reward a 125 point Art Ross winning effort when someone just scored 51 goals over 50 games and got 60 in the process on a really good team.
Personally, McDavid deserves it to me and I have always viewed Stamkos’ 60 goal campaign just as favorably as Ovechkin’s 65 (thus greater than Matthews current in a higher scoring league but still awesome), but context and narrative points to why Matthews will win it this year compared to what happened in that 2011-2012 season.
Ryan52
Registered User
best hart race in a while as a fan of hockey. as a leafs fan, i hope matthews wins it. i think its hubedreaus year though
.800+ goals per game is historic. It’s equivalent to a 144 point pace in terms of rarity. Not done since Mario Lemieux, until now.
50 in 50 is historic. Not done since Mario Lemieux, until now.
60 goals in 73 games is historic. Not done since Mario Lemieux, since now.
There’s no disputing Matthews’ season. It’s historic, and it’s now part of hockey lore. The best goal scoring season of the 21st century. Any true hockey fan will appreciate the rarity.
CantHaveTkachev
Cap Space > NHL players
50 in 50 starts from the beginning of the season...not some arbitrary number Leafs decide lol
he's not a good playmaker and his team doesn't lose even with him out of the line-up...sorry but it's the truth
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Adjusting for scoring levels, it very much is not the best season in the 21st century. Ovi 08, Stamkos 12 and Bure 00 are all clearly ahead. Maybe Bure 01 as well.
60 in 73 is impressive until you realize Bure did 58 in 74 in a dramatically lower scoring era.
This season has 4 50 goal scorers and 14+ 40 goal scorers. 8 100 point scorers and 31+ 80 point scorers.
99-00 had 1 50 goal scorer and 7 40 goal scorers. 0 100 point scorers and 9 80 point scorers.
Last edited:
And how many of those players won the Hart trophy in years they didn't also lead the league in points?
No one doubts Matthews is having an all-time elite goal scoring season. That doesn't make him the best player in the league. It certainly doesn't make him the most valuable in the league. ESPECIALLY when you consider he missed 8 games, which is more than any Hart trophy winner (as a skater) has missed since Lemieux in the mid 90s, and Lemieux completely ran away with the scoring title that season, blew everyone out of the water except his own teammate.
There’s a reason Matthews and Lemieux are the only ones to score at a .800+ GPG pace since 1994. 30 years now. It’s hard to do!
Mario is the greatest goal scorer of all time, and I doubt Matthews ever does it again. But he did it this year, and that’s Hart worthy. It’s understandable Ovechkin and Stamkos never did it- again, it’s hard to do!
Matthews is pushing the boundaries of what’s possible in today’s NHL. Everyone thought 60 goals was impossible today, and but for Matthews’ historic season, it basically is impossible. Never mind 60 goals in 73 games. I don’t think anyone else is capable of 60 goals in 82 games today.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,964
- 10,516
While I agree that this is a special season for Matthews and he earned the right to be a part of the debate for best goal scoring season of the 21st century, true hockey fans will also be objective and recognize that:
Ovechkin scored 65 goals in 82 games for a team that scored 242 (he scored 26.7% of his team’s goals) in a league where scoring was 5.56 GPG.
Stamkos scored 60 in 82 games for a team that scored 235 goals (he scored 25.5% of his team’s goals) in a league where scoring was 5.46 GPG.
As of today, Matthews scored 60 goals in 73 games for a team that scored 310 goals (he scored 19.4% of his team’s goals) in a league where scoring was 6.28.
That doesn’t even take into the account of how many 40 and 50 goal scorers were in each season. I’m not going to do all the grunt work, but I can assure you that there were way less in 2007-2008 and 2011-2012 than 2021-2022.
There’s nothing that definitively makes Matthews season the most impressive of the 3, but he certainly has earned his place at the round table of discussion.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
It's the highest scoring season since 95-96. It's hard, but it is the easiest season to do it in 26 years. Matthews could not have done it in 2003 or 2015.
I understand your argument, but none of this changes the fact that Matthews is scoring at paces not done since Lemieux. That’s just statistical fact. The amount of time that has passed since Lemieux last did it makes it historic.
I get the arguments for Ovechkin and Stamkos, and I like them both as hockey players. I have much respect for both. But when you get down to it, Matthews hit the .800 GPG level and scored 50 in 50, and the other two didn’t. At some level, you have to get it done to be recognized for it.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
If you go further back it's even less likely. Since Lemieux 95-96, only 4 Hart winners have lead the league in goals. 3 of them were Ovechkin.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
If you have basic levels of understanding of scoring levels, it's pretty clear Matthews' season is behind Bure, Ovechkin, and Stamkos.
Or are we going to argue Lanny MacDonald was a better goal scorer than Auston Matthews.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,964
- 10,516
If scoring stays the same or ticks up higher over the next few seasons, what Matthews has done will no longer be as rare as it was. You mentioned in another post that you don’t think anyone else is even capable of 60 in 82.
Drai has 55 in 79.
Some guy named Kreider (I’m joking) has 52.
Ovechkin is 36 and has 50 in 77.
With a few more games played by everyone in the top 10 for goals, 9 of them would have a shot at 50.
Pass first McDavid who averages an assist per game has 44. Capability? You don’t think if he looked for his shot more, he would pot 60 the way the league is going?
How can you think that 60 goals is out of reach for anyone but Matthews?
He had a special season. It’s been awesome to see the feats he has accomplished and the league in general see a boost to scoring that we haven’t seen in 25+ years.
But when you combine his talent with being in the right circumstance, this is what you get. To sweep others under the rug doesn’t seem right.
There is a steep climb from 55 to 60 goals. There’s only 82 games. It’s hard enough to score 55 during that limited time, let alone 60. I’d love to see more players reach 60, but we’ll have to wait until it actually happens. That’s the only way to prove a player is “capable” of scoring 60.
Heck, I doubt Matthews himself scores 60 goals again, let alone anyone else. That’s what makes the accomplishment in today’s NHL so special.
The Panther
Registered User
In 1980-81, when Bossy and (almost) Charlie Simmer scored 50-in-50 (the real 50-in-50, not the game-cherry-picking one), a lot of people said, "Wow, this is historic! We'll never see this again in our lifetimes!"
Then, 11 months later, Gretzky scored 50 in 39, and 92 in a season. Two years later, he scored 87 in 74 games. A year later, Gretzky scored 50 in 49 and Kurri 50 in 51. Four years later, Lemieux scored 85. Two years later, Hull scored 86.
If scoring rates continue, I'd say it's very likely we'll see another 60-goal scorer in the next few years. Hell, if Draisaitl played the wing with McDavid instead of being a playmaking center, he'd have well over 60 right now...
Then, 11 months later, Gretzky scored 50 in 39, and 92 in a season. Two years later, he scored 87 in 74 games. A year later, Gretzky scored 50 in 49 and Kurri 50 in 51. Four years later, Lemieux scored 85. Two years later, Hull scored 86.
If scoring rates continue, I'd say it's very likely we'll see another 60-goal scorer in the next few years. Hell, if Draisaitl played the wing with McDavid instead of being a playmaking center, he'd have well over 60 right now...
Matthews season is only rare and elusive in the echo chamber that is the Toronto media and fanbase. Pavel Bure scored 58 in 74 games in 1999-2000, a much lower scoring year, and finished only 2 points off the Art Ross leader, and 14 goals more than the next highest scorer. He was also by far the best player on his team. And yet I don't see any Toronto fans saying that season was better than Matthews. Bure finished 3rd in Hart voting.
Matthews' season is awesome, but it isn't some objective fact that he should win the Hart because he scored 60 goals. It would be nice it people actually watched hockey games to determine the winner of the Hart trophy, rather than trying to craft narratives around specific stats that are only selectively important. Personally I think Mathews will win the Hart trophy, but I don't understand how anyone could watch Edmonton and Toronto play and come to the conclusion that Matthews is more important to his team than McDavid is to his. They literally play the guy until he is dead tired because they have to in order to be competitive. How some people claim that is to his detriment regarding the Hart trophy is beyond me.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,964
- 10,516
We’ll see what happens for sure. I’ll back off because I’m talking to someone with some sense haha (not thinking Matthews is going to automatically notch 60 year in and year out).
Hopefully the level of scoring we saw this season is the baseline and what we can expect to see for awhile now.
Atomos2
Registered User
With that logic, Matthews is more likely to hit 70 than anyone else hitting 60.
Draisaitl would need 5 goals in 3 games to hit 60 while Matthews would need 10 goals in 10 games to hit 70 (currently) if all else was equal.
Latest posts
-
-
GDT: Islanders @ Panthers 6PM: A new challenger for biggest game of the year- Latest: I am not exposed
-
-
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
-
Beanpot Boston University vs Harvard - TD Garden, BostonWagers: 2Staked: $486.00Event closes- Updated:
-
Beanpot Boston College vs Northeastern - TD Garden, BostonWagers: 1Staked: $100.00Event closes- Updated: