NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

[WetcoastOrca]

Can you imagine putting up like twice the amount of assists with only 8 more giveaways? With probably thousands of extra touches on the puck? Absolutely incredible.

Yeah giveaways is a pretty subjective stat as it punishes the playmaker on a line. Matthews is more the trigger guy on his line while Marner is the playmaker. McDavid is both on his line. McDavid should be expected to have more giveaways.
It’s like the point guard in basketball that always leads the team in turnovers as he has the ball the most.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Matthews best winger is way better than McDavids best winger. Matthews second best winger is way better than McDavids second best winger. These things should absolutely be taken into account.

It is a close race but im giving it to McDavid now. He has upped his defensive game a lot aswell as the season has progressed. I think we will see a different Playoff McDavid than we have seen before.

McDavid leads the league in PP points. Huberdeau and McDavid are 1-2 in the ever abundant secondary assists. These are points of circumstance.

Matthews in tops in the league in takeaways, goals at 60, only the 21st player in history to hit that mark. Top 20 in faceofff %, leading his team to a record in team points all while playing only 73 games.

It should be near unanimous that Matthews is having the most dominant complete year this season and is the MVP of the NHL.

 

[CN8]

Do you actually understand just how stupid NHL players are?

Absolutely . They got nothing on 300 pound Frank up in the balcony just polishing off his third order of nachos.

 

[v00d00daddy]

The 2021-22 NHLPA Players Poll is a rout for McDavid. It's probably the best indicator of Lindsay Award voting we have at this point.

Woah. I guess I’ll be very wrong on my Lindsay prediction.

 

[v00d00daddy]

What’s the context? What year was that from?

It’s says 21-22 season. Not sure when the survey went out but still…it’s not even close in this survey.

I’ve been assuming the players will vote matthews as the most outstanding after this season. This survey clearly shows otherwise.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

McDavid leads the league in PP points. Huberdeau and McDavid are 1-2 in the ever abundant secondary assists. These are points of circumstance.

Matthews in tops in the league in takeaways, goals at 60, only the 21st player in history to hit that mark. Top 20 in faceofff %, leading his team to a record in team points all while playing only 73 games.

It should be near anonymous that Matthews is having the most dominant complete year this season and is the MVP of the NHL.

Most would say at best it’s a 50/50 chance Matthews wins. You can cherry pick stats to support either player but it won’t and shouldn’t be near unanimous.
There are certainly a lot of arguments in McDavids favour as well if you take the time to look at both sides.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

It’s says 21-22 season. Not sure when the survey went out but still…it’s not even close in this survey.

I’ve been assuming the players will vote matthews as the most outstanding after this season. This survey clearly shows otherwise.

The fact Ovi has more than double the votes than AM for “which shot would you want” says enough for me to disregard. OV has one move at this age. These votes mean very little considering all most of these players see are the games they play and a highlight package for the night, if that.

 

[Video Nasty]

Interested in what the narrative will be from detractors if McDavid wins his 4th Lindsay award and misses out on the Hart. All we usually hear is how much more prestigious and impressive it is to be recognized by your peers and how the players know more than the media. Somehow, I think we won’t hear the usual buzz if that happens.

If he does win his 4th, only Lemieux and Gretzky have the same or more. Granted, the Pearson had its inaugural season during 1970-1971, so Howe would likely have been a part of that group.

Seems like McDavid is doing a lot “only Gretzky and Mario have more” type achievements. Can’t be any better company than that.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Haha this is great.

Alright Leaf fans - please tell us why 550 NHL players are wrong.......

Perhaps the NHL players need some of our posters to educate them on the all important goals per 60 minutes at even strength stat. That’s the true measure of a player!

 

[Leafsfan74]

Most would say at best it’s a 50/50 chance Matthews wins. You can cherry pick stats to support either player but it won’t and shouldn’t be near unanimous.
There are certainly a lot of arguments in McDavids favour as well if you take the time to look at both sides.

You give Matthews 2 extra minutes a game in ice time and 8-9 more games played and this debate isn't even being had today. He can't control injuries anymore than Mario could when he won the Hart.

McDavid deserved it last year in a shortened season. The reality is that scoring goals is the most difficult skill in the NHL and there aren't any offensive stats unless a sniper exists to deposit the puck. Certainly secondary assists aren't in the solar system of difficulty.

Even if it were 50/50, which I don't believe it is this year, Matthews would win based on this differentiating fact alone. Take all of the other supporting stats like takeaways, faceoff success and rarity of 60 goals compared to 120 points (again in FAR fewer games) and the debate is even more one sided.

Just as McDavid was referenced in the same breath last year with so many historic greats, Matthews this year is spoken in the same sentence.

If Matthews doesn't win it I would view it as theft.

 

[mcdingdong]

McDavid is having the best playdriving season in the analytics era (beating out...himself), has been demonstrably unlucky in terms of 5x5 results based on career averages (to the tune of 20ish additional points 5v5 if his percentages were in line with career to date), and is comfortably the Art Ross leader with 2 games to play. Don't overthink it everyone.

 

[Spawn]

Why people gloss over this stat as a key defensive metric blows my mind. Takeaways are effectively steals in Basketball, which are enormously valuable. Any time you can force a turnover and a change of possession you’re making an impact. To my mind, outside of some of the more advanced stats, this is the most important defensive metric.

Guess who is tied for 2nd in the league for forwards in terms of takeaways?

 

[Holymakinaw]

If Matthews doesn't win it I would view it as theft.

Just as it's ridiculous to say that "only McDavid is worthy of winning it" this year, this is also a ridiculous statement. Matthews is not entitled to the Hart Trophy. A bunch of guys are ALL WORTHY.......McDavid and Matthews likely being the front runners. But don't count out Josi or Gaudreau.

Any of them could win it and it would be right.

 

[CN8]

Although Im loving the passion of this discussion I can’t believe the pedestal the hart gets put on. Do I really care what Elliot Freedman cares about my guy? There’s no objectivity to it and these are the same guys that went Toews in the top 100 over Malkin. The award is an honour but I sure won’t judge a guys legacy based on how many / or not he’s won

 

[WetcoastOrca]

You give Matthews 2 extra minutes a game in ice time and 8-9 more games played and this debate isn't even being had today. He can't control injuries anymore than Mario could when he won the Hart.

McDavid deserved it last year in a shortened season. The reality is that scoring goals is the most difficult skill in the NHL and there aren't any offensive stats unless a sniper exists to deposit the puck. Certainly secondary assists aren't in the solar system of difficulty.

Even if it were 50/50, which I don't believe it is this year, Matthews would win based on this differentiating fact alone. Take all of the other supporting stats like takeaways, faceoff success and rarity of 60 goals compared to 120 points (again in FAR fewer games) and the debate is even more one sided.

Just as McDavid was referenced in the same breath last year with so many historic greats, Matthews this year is spoken in the same sentence.

If Matthews doesn't win it I would view it as theft.

You give McDavid an elite winger like Marner and better D to feed him like Reilly and Brodie and I think he wins the Art Ross by a lot more and also puts up more goals.
The fact he is able to play such a high level of minutes every game at such an elite level is just a bonus and his large lead over Matthews in the Art Ross race is also a strong factor in his favour.
I’d be fine with either winning but on balance I think McDavid has the stronger case as he’s more valuable to his team in addition to being the best player in the league. That said, I can see the strong arguments for Matthews too as 60 goals is one hell of an accomplishment.
There are probably a small minority of fans in both fanbases who will see it as theft if their guy loses but most I think can see the case for either player.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Guess who is tied for 2nd in the league for forwards in terms of takeaways?

Indeed, 20 fewer tks with 6 extra games played (and 2min more ATOI).

Just as McDavid ran away with it last year, this year Matthews has been lights out.

No need to pick and choose stats, laying it all out in full and the historic statistical rarity of events and 120 points in a full season doesn't compare to 60 goals in 73 games. Not even Ovi (or Jagr) has accomplished this in so few games.

 

[mcdingdong]

Indeed, 20 fewer tks with 6 extra games played (and 2min more ATOI).

Just as McDavid ran away with it last year, this year Matthews has been lights out.

No need to pick and choose stats, laying it all out in full and the historic statistical rarity of events and 120 points in a full season doesn't compare to 60 goals in 73 games. Not even Ovi (or Jagr) has accomplished this in so few games.

Wait, you think the way McDavid lapped the field last season is remotely comparable to Matthews versus the field this season? Holy cripes pass that lettuce over here pal.

 

[onetweasy]

The fact Ovi has more than double the votes than AM for “which shot would you want” says enough for me to disregard. OV has one move at this age. These votes mean very little considering all most of these players see are the games they play and a highlight package for the night, if that.

So you are throwing away the results cause a guy with 9 Rocket Richard trophies got double the votes that a guy who has 1 going on 2 has......yeah okay that makes sense.

 

[slapKing]

Both mcdavid and matthews had amazing seasons. you don't need to prop one while disrespecting the other cmon now

Both are very deserving to win the hart this season.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Wait, you think the way McDavid lapped the field last season is remotely comparable to Matthews versus the field this season? Holy cripes pass that lettuce over here pal.

I openly said that an asterisk in last season should be applied to the Cup winner long before it was won. Yes, players couldn't choose the results of covid, but it is very relevant in comparisions.

North division stats vs. the entire league? Let's not lose sight of the situations we are comparing here.

If we want a finer toothed comb to compare this year, just look at the competition of the East vs the West. There is one team in top 7 in GAA in the West, the Flames, all other teams 2-7 are in the East.

Matthews deserves the Hart on nearly every metric. The more you dig into the data, the more clear it is. That's not a knock on McDavid, it's the reality.

 

[authentic]

So you are throwing away the results cause a guy with 9 Rocket Richard trophies got double the votes that a guy who has 1 going on 2 has......yeah okay that makes sense.

These votes seem to be based more on reputation so yes you read that correctly.

 

[mcdingdong]

I openly said that an asterisk in last season should be applied to the Cup winner long before it was won. Yes, players couldn't choose the results of covid, but it is very relevant in comparisions.

North division stats vs. the entire league? Let's not lose sight of the situations we are comparing here.

If we want a finer toothed comb to compare this year, just look at the competition of the East vs the West. There is one team in top 7 in GAA in the West, the Flames, all other teams 2-7 are in the East.

Matthews deserves the Hart on nearly every metric. The more you dig into the data, the more clear it is. That's not a knock on McDavid, it's the reality.

McDavid had nearly 40 more points than Matthews last year in the same division. And McDavid has had a better year this year (again, the best in analytics era) in terms of driving play but has had by far the unluckiest season of his career and he is still outscoring everyone comfortably. How is that for data?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I openly said that an asterisk in last season should be applied to the Cup winner long before it was won. Yes, players couldn't choose the results of covid, but it is very relevant in comparisions.

North division stats vs. the entire league? Let's not lose sight of the situations we are comparing here.

If we want a finer toothed comb to compare this year, just look at the competition of the East vs the West. There is one team in top 7 in GAA in the West, the Flames, all other teams 2-7 are in the East.

Matthews deserves the Hart on nearly every metric. The more you dig into the data, the more clear it is. That's not a knock on McDavid, it's the reality.

Sure. If you only look at the stats that favour your boy. As others have pointed out a lot of the stats favour McDavid.

Would you also apply an asterisk to Matthews' Rocket win las year?

 

[Dust]

I openly said that an asterisk in last season should be applied to the Cup winner long before it was won. Yes, players couldn't choose the results of covid, but it is very relevant in comparisions.

North division stats vs. the entire league? Let's not lose sight of the situations we are comparing here.

If we want a finer toothed comb to compare this year, just look at the competition of the East vs the West. There is one team in top 7 in GAA in the West, the Flames, all other teams 2-7 are in the East.

Matthews deserves the Hart on nearly every metric. The more you dig into the data, the more clear it is. That's not a knock on McDavid, it's the reality.

The myth of the North being weaker or higher scoring was debunked plenty of times last season. It just happened to be the division with a lot of the elite talent in the league.

Also why cut off the GAA conveniently at 7? 8, 9, 10, and 11 are all West teams. 5 of the 6th worst are East teams. It's easy to just take a snippet and make it a slanted narrative.

You're cherry picking metrics here.

 

[Voodoo Child]

This thread is jumping, did some people criticize Connor McDavid or something?

He’s doing McDavid shit, but I do think a narrative has set in around him: amazing player being spoon-fed huge minutes, compiling points but unable to push his team over the hump.

Not even…30% of that is his fault, but I think that’s the perception.

Yeah the Leafs I know, but it’s a regular season award and the Leafs are and mostly have been an elite regular season team, and are again this year.

Excellent crop this year, but these two will take in 80% of the votes.