NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

[PostBradMalone]

I think there are some legit arguments for why Matthews might not win the Hart. But the arguments trotted out by un-objective haters (like these) are just comically bad.

It's "comically bad" to judge a player defense by the amount of goals that happen while they are on the ice?

If you want to judge Matthews' defence, look at the outcomes he can actually control. Like scoring chances or expected goals against. In looking at those metrics, he's actually one of the best Leafs forwards (behind only their shutdown line players). Unless your argument is that Matthews is personally coaching Campbell/Mrazek/Kallgren to let in hilariously terrible goals, the goals against argument just holds absolutely no water.

Being "One of the best Leafs forwards" at something is not an accomplishment that makes someone eligible for the Hart, sorry. But on that note, if he isn't the best, are you implying that the Leafs shutdown line coaches their goalies to be better when THEY are on the ice? You can't have it both ways.

I also don't get why people are trying to poo-poo some of these feats he could achieve. Like "oh, it's not a true 50 in 50". This is something that hasn't been done in decades. It's clearly special. It's something most people thought simply wouldn't be possible in the modern era.

And it still won't have been done in decades since the definition has always been from the start of the season. It's like this malarky of him having the most goals by an American "born" player- Brett Hull, who was considered American because he grew up in the U.S. and represented them internationally, is the actual record-holder for his country and Matthews likely never touches his totals unless there is a significant rule change in the next ten years. However, there has to be this narrative twisting and turning to make it seem like a bigger feat than it is. That's Toronto sports media for you in a nutshell.

 

[The Podium]

every metric but total goals against, in which he is bottom 5 of all forwards lmfao

Why can’t he just be the games best goal scorer? You people are never satisfied unless this man is deified by everybody

Ya, the Leafs goaltending has been laughably bad for the last 30 games.

He can be the best goal scorer in the game, but defensively he is fantastic.

How Auston Matthews has become a valuable defensive presence for Maple Leafs – Sportsnet.ca

www.sportsnet.ca

“Myth” LMFAO

 

[Advanced stats]

Except it's completely wrong because 60 > 56 and that happened as recently as 2012.

My guy, Matthews will be way past 60, maybe tomorrow night even.

 

[PostBradMalone]

My guy, Matthews will be way past 60, maybe tomorrow night even.

My guy, you can admit when you are wrong, and that maybe your username should be something else since you struggle even with basic stats.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

A reason. Not the reason. And it is a myth.

The criteria is most valuable player, which McDavid is as he is clearly the best player in the NHL lmfao

Far from a myth, c'mon now. He won't be winning it but he will likely be among the better Selke candidates in the year end list as well.

 

[TimeZone]

The Matthews defensive prowess myth is so bizarre

lol. You and the two misinformed individuals who liked this embarrassing post should find another sport.

 

[Advanced stats]

My guy, you can admit when you are wrong, and that maybe your username should be something else since you struggle even with basic stats.

What is wrong with saying that Matthews will have the highest scoring season in the past 15 years?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Ya, the Leafs goaltending has been laughably bad for the last 30 games.

He can be the best goal scorer in the game, but defensively he is fantastic.

View attachment 528446

How Auston Matthews has become a valuable defensive presence for Maple Leafs – Sportsnet.ca

www.sportsnet.ca

View attachment 528448

“Myth” LMFAO

Far from a myth, c'mon now. He won't be winning it but he will likely be among the better Selke candidates in the year end list as well.

lol.

Meanwhile McDavid and Draisaitl on a worse team, allegedly both terrible defensively, yet get scored on less than Matthews (who is bottom 5 of all forwards for goals against)

He is amazing defensively yet gets no results, how curious

 

[PostBradMalone]

lol.

Yes, a little colored box with the number "93%" is a convincing argument for his defensive prowess. The NHL needs to not only immediately award Matthews the Selke, but go back and retroactively take away all of Bergeron's since he was clearly a fraud.

 

[kevsh]

Why can’t he just be the games best goal scorer?

He's much more than that. If you've watched his games this year you'd see a trend: He's far more dangerous, more often than in previous seasons. We can debate stats all day but the just going by the eye test you can see how dominant he is. McDavid-level, and better without the puck.

The only downside to his game I've seen this year is too often when the opposing team is cycling well in the Leafs zone he seems to float a few times, not always picking up an assignment quickly enough. So, no, in his own zone he's not Bergeron.

But take off your blinders and just watch him play a few full games. Really watch. You will be convinced, unless you've just made up your mind a long time ago and will stubbornly resist accepting it. If he's not the best forward in the game he's 1B and easily Hart-worthy this season.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

He's much more than that. If you've watched his games this year you'd see a trend: He's far more dangerous, more often than in previous seasons. We can debate stats all day but the just using the eye test you can see how dominant he is. McDavid-level, and better without the puck.

The only downside to his game I've seen this year is too often when the opposing team is cycling well in the Leafs zone he seems to float a few times, not always picking up an assignment quickly enough. So, no, in his own zone he's not Bergeron.

But take off your blinders and just watch him play a few full games. Really watch. You will be convinced, unless you've just made up your mind a long time ago and will stubbornly resist accepting it. If he's not the best forward in the game he's 1B and easily Hart-worthy this season.

I agree with all of this except the very last sentence actually (and most years it would be 100% Hart worthy)
I think Matthews is an excellent player, but that's not good enough for people on here
Unacceptable to say he's anything but the best, it's cult-like

 

[The Podium]

Yes, a little colored box with the number "93%" is a convincing argument for his defensive prowess. The NHL needs to not only immediately award Matthews the Selke, but go back and retroactively take away all of Bergeron's since he was clearly a fraud.

He’s not better than Bergeron, no one is claiming that he is. But he’s definitely one of the better defensive players in the league.

 

[5 14 6 1]

So when does the discussion of Matthews plays with Marner begin? Leafs fans have been discrediting McDavid and Draisaitl for years for that. Now they play separately and still both out produce him... Odd

 

[The Podium]

I agree with all of this except the very last sentence actually (and most years it would be 100% Hart worthy)
I think Matthews is an excellent player, but that's not good enough for people on here
Unacceptable to say he's anything but the best, it's cult-like

It’s not good enough when you are actively ignoring facts that are universally accepted.

BuT McIdIoT and DrAiSuCkY aRe BeTtEr LaWlZ

 

[The Podium]

So when does the discussion of Matthews plays with Marner begin? Leafs fans have been discrediting McDavid and Draisaitl for years for that. Now they play separately and still both out produce him... Odd

Draisaitl is not out producing Matthews though….

 

[Sasha Orlov]

It’s not good enough when you are actively ignoring facts that are universally accepted.

BuT McIdIoT and DrAiSuCkY aRe BeTtEr LaWlZ

Nobody on this planet that's not a Leafs homer agrees with any of the bullshit you people say on here LMFAO

 

[bossram]

A reason. Not the reason. And it is a myth.

The criteria is most valuable player, which McDavid is as he is clearly the best player in the NHL lmfao

I mean, McDavid is not the "clear" best player in the league this season, unless your only criteria are points. I mean some people vote like that, so it's not that unreasonable. But if you're going to consider Matthews' defence, then you should look at McDavid's.

McDavid has improved defensively, but he's still far worse in that regard than Matthews.

Your only evidence of Matthews' defensive play being a myth is raw GA. One stat. A stat that Matthews does not have that much control over, because his goaltenders have been letting in beach balls for most of the season.

Per Natural Stattrick (min 200 5v5 minutes)
Matthews:
-2.57 scoring chances against per 60 relative to teammates (3rd best among Leaf forwards)
-0.81 high-danger chances against per 60 relative to teammates(3rd best among Leaf forwards)
-0.35 expected goal against per 60 relative to teammates (1st among Leaf forwards)

McDavid
+1.08 SCA/60 Rel (10th among Oiler forwards)
+0.49 HDCA/60 Rel (9th among Oiler forwards)
-0.05 xGA/60 Rel (8th among Oiler forwards)

Matthews is one of the Leafs' best defensive players. He significantly reduces the number of scoring chances, high-danger chances, and total expected goals against when he is on the ice.

Yes, McDavid scores more points. But his team concedes more scoring chances and high-danger chances when his team is on the ice. He's just about breakeven defensively on expected goals against. This is probably because he has a penchant for conceding a lot of rush chances, despite typically dominating play in the offensive zone.

 

[PostBradMalone]

2nd to Bergeron this season, 6th since 07

He’s not better than Bergeron, no one is claiming that he is. But he’s definitely one of the better defensive players in the league.

34th, 34th, and 59th?! That's it, I'm driving down to the HHOF right now and ripping the Selke out of its display case, because it clearly deserves to live in Matthews' house.

Yes, McDavid scores more points. But his team concedes more scoring chances and high-danger chances when his team is on the ice. He's just about breakeven defensively on expected goals against. This is probably because he has a penchant for conceding a lot of rush chances, despite typically dominating play in the offensive zone.

And yet Matthews still leads all forwards in the top 130 in scoring in 5 on 5 GA. Weird how that happens eh?

 

[5 14 6 1]

Draisaitl is not out producing Matthews though….

101 > 97

 

[The Podium]

101 > 97

In 5 more games, it’s close enough that its not a favourable argument for Draisaitl.

 

[Video Nasty]

I don't know about that. Geno was so by and far the best player in the world that season. I think he played something like 75 games and scored 50 goals and 109 points.

I remember that season when Kessel led the league in points for a while. Then Malkin started his season and Kessel had about 30 point lead over him. People were saying that there's no chance Geno catches him. He did, faster than anyone thought possible. There's a fair argument to be made, that season Malkin presented us with the highest peak out of all forwards since Lemieux. I know OV is the popular (and mine too) choice. But I won't bend out of shape if someone thinks it's Malkin that season.

Stammers goal-campaign was great, good enough to win you the Hart many years. That year, it wasn't even close.

Plus there was the extra narrative for Malkin leading a team that saw Crosby miss 60 games.

 

[The Podium]

These oiler fans can’t help themselves they’re having a collective meltdown that it looks like their boys aren’t going to win the Hart.

 

[PostBradMalone]

These oiler fans can’t help themselves they’re having a collective meltdown that it looks like their boys aren’t going to win the Hart.

We're just mostly confused that simple concepts like 101 > 97 are and remain a collective mystery to the Leafs fans in this thread. I knew the Ford government had made cuts to education but wowzas.

 

[The Podium]

We're just mostly confused that simple concepts like 101 > 97 are and remain a collective mystery to the Leafs fans in this thread. I knew the Ford government had made cuts to education but wowzas.

I guess Math is hard for some

D 71GP 50G 51A 101 PTS (1.43 PPG)
M 66GP 56G 41A 97 PTS (1.47 PPG)

1.47 > 1.43

Now granted you can’t guarantee that Matthews would have 4 points in 5 games to close that gap, but are you even confident enough that Draisaitl will out score Matthews by the time the season is done?

 

[Strangle]

We're just mostly confused that simple concepts like 101 > 97 are and remain a collective mystery to the Leafs fans in this thread. I knew the Ford government had made cuts to education but wowzas.

This is true, but :

1.47 > 1.42

And

56 > 50