News from Around the AHL/NHL/KHL 2023-24

[The Real JT]

I guess the truth is, the only way is to draft players or hope to hit the Grabner/Moulson (the unwanted) who turn out to be good players for us.

I’ll add this.

It’s insanity to think that you’ll strike gold with any frequency by picking 2nd and 5th round picks like Raty and Dufour. Without those 2, our prospect pool would be remarkably dismal.

Lou needs to ride this out and hope for the best with essentially what we have now.

 

[MJF]

I’ll add this.

It’s insanity to think that you’ll strike gold with any frequency by picking 2nd and 5th round picks like Raty and Dufour. Without those 2, our prospect pool would be remarkably dismal.

Lou needs to ride this out and hope for the best with essentially what we have now.

You’re not going to make many friends with ideas like that.

 

[Throttle]

I’ll add this.

It’s insanity to think that you’ll strike gold with any frequency by picking 2nd and 5th round picks like Raty and Dufour. Without those 2, our prospect pool would be remarkably dismal.

Lou needs to ride this out and hope for the best with essentially what we have now.

I may not be reading this correctly, however, the Isles prospect pool is kinda weak because most of those players have graduated to the NHL. Naturally, a prospect pool worsens when you are higher in the standings because you pick later and usually have less picks due to trades to win.

When do you draw the line of a prospect pool by draft year? The Isles have 5 1st rounders from 2015/16/18 on the roster. 17 and 18 have 3 guys (two tbd tweeners) from the 2nd+.

I don't mind the calls for a rebuild. But, if the Isles are starting to rebuild, then clear out all the 15/16/17 guys now - that means Barzal too. Accept that he's not what people think he is. If you start to rebuild, he's not helping that process and even if he were to 'stick around' he'll be 30ish (he's OLD!) once the team can turn the corner.

Fans think rebuilding automatically leads to a COL or something similar. ANA has been trying to rebuild, most of their picks busted out. NJ is in a forever rebuild that fans are losing patience with. PHI is a hot mess and has had plenty of 1st rounders and its an attractive place to play.

In the end, fans like that sweet spot of YR2/YR3 of a rebuild that netted picks/prospects and project like all heck that it will net a SC contender. Once they are in YR5/6 and the team has not won the Cup, they want to go back to rebuild territory. Absent, a legit franchise player, waiting around for one is not in an owner's best financial interest.

 

[The Real JT]

I may not be reading this correctly, however, the Isles prospect pool is kinda weak because most of those players have graduated to the NHL. Naturally, a prospect pool worsens when you are higher in the standings because you pick later and usually have less picks due to trades to win.

When do you draw the line of a prospect pool by draft year? The Isles have 5 1st rounders from 2015/16/18 on the roster. 17 and 18 have 3 guys (two tbd tweeners) from the 2nd+.

I don't mind the calls for a rebuild. But, if the Isles are starting to rebuild, then clear out all the 15/16/17 guys now - that means Barzal too. Accept that he's not what people think he is. If you start to rebuild, he's not helping that process and even if he were to 'stick around' he'll be 30ish (he's OLD!) once the team can turn the corner.

Fans think rebuilding automatically leads to a COL or something similar. ANA has been trying to rebuild, most of their picks busted out. NJ is in a forever rebuild that fans are losing patience with. PHI is a hot mess and has had plenty of 1st rounders and its an attractive place to play.

In the end, fans like that sweet spot of YR2/YR3 of a rebuild that netted picks/prospects and project like all heck that it will net a SC contender. Once they are in YR5/6 and the team has not won the Cup, they want to go back to rebuild territory. Absent, a legit franchise player, waiting around for one is not in an owner's best financial interest.

Regarding the maturation of younger players into the NHL so that they don’t count as “prospects”, you’re technically right but those rules hold for all teams. You could add Dobson and Wally but other teams would be adding quality players too.

It’s hard to rate the Isles prospects as anything but below average for the league. Lou needs to stop trading high value picks. We’re not that close to a Cup that we can throw caution to the wind.

 

[JKP]

Fans think rebuilding automatically leads to a COL or something similar. ANA has been trying to rebuild, most of their picks busted out. NJ is in a forever rebuild that fans are losing patience with. PHI is a hot mess and has had plenty of 1st rounders and its an attractive place to play.

Didn’t we already rebuild for about 30 years?

I still think this team can challenge. It’s the same core that took an $8M over the cap Tampa team to within 1 goal of the finals.

The biggest question is less about the roster and more how the team responds to the new coach, imo.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

It’s hard to rate the Isles prospects as anything but below average for the league.

This is absolutely correct.

And it really is scary to think where our pool would be at - already widely seen as among the three weakest in hockey - if we hadn't just grabbed a dropper in Raty and, well, a dropper in Dufour as well, who was widely considered a top 100 prospect in his draft year.

Of course, our staff has spent several drafts trying to be smarter than everyone else in taking Holmstrom (seen as mid-to-late 2nd rounder) and Bolduc (largely ranked outside of the top 225 players) in 2019, and then Ljunkrantz (unranked by many) and Jeffries (felt to be outside the top 200 by most every indepent draft guide) in 2020 although i.e. a Martin Chromiak was availabe at both spots after having been pegged as a top 40 talent and having since turned into a dominant OHL scorer.

In fact, looking at the list of guys taken right after Ljunkrantz and then right after Jeffries will make the average prospect afficionado cringe. Check it out here: Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2020

Lou needs to stop trading high value picks. We’re not that close to a Cup that we can throw caution to the wind.

By dealing three straight 1st rounders (Pageau, Palmieri, Romanov) and another four 2nd rounders in the process (1 for Greene, 1 for Pageau, 2 with Ladd), 4 of those picks heading out at the trade deadline, Lou has been making the transactions that absolute Cup contenders make.

But without the Cup.

What is noticeable with, for example, Tampa Bay, is that they nonetheless almost always have 7 or 8 picks in a draft, even if not necessarily in the 1st round. They make other moves along the way to maintain darts for the end of June.

Colorado has done plenty of picking in recent years as well, even if not this past summer.

Since Lou basically does nothing to rehash picks (only did so with Toews and Leddy, but sent two of those three to ARI to get rid of Ladd), any further dishing off a 1st and 2nd rounders at this point is basically organizational suicide.

He's really ultimately proceeding in an "all or nothing" fashion, but without actually signing bonafide NHLers to really have a shot at successfully proceeding in an "all or nothing" fashion.

We just gotta hope that the path he takes with what we have proves to be the right one.

 

[JBHockey]

The key here is that the Flames were will to jettison Monahan and a first round pick to sign Kadri.
Lou obviously felt giving up assets to sign Kadri was a zero sum game.
Depending on who they would have had to give up, it was probably the correct decision.

I agree, to continuously trade draft picks so a team will take a player off your hands makes no sense since you left with nothing in return.

 

[The Real JT]

This is absolutely correct.

And it really is scary to think where our pool would be at - already widely seen as among the three weakest in hockey - if we hadn't just grabbed a dropper in Raty and, well, a dropper in Dufour as well, who was widely considered a top 100 prospect in his draft year.

Of course, our staff has spent several drafts trying to be smarter than everyone else in taking Holmstrom (seen as mid-to-late 2nd rounder) and Bolduc (largely ranked outside of the top 225 players) in 2019, and then Ljunkrantz (unranked by many) and Jeffries (felt to be outside the top 200 by most every indepent draft guide) in 2020 although i.e. a Martin Chromiak was availabe at both spots after having been pegged as a top 40 talent and having since turned into a dominant OHL scorer.

In fact, looking at the list of guys taken right after Ljunkrantz and then right after Jeffries will make the average prospect afficionado cringe. Check it out here: Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2020



By dealing three straight 1st rounders (Pageau, Palmieri, Romanov) and another four 2nd rounders in the process (1 for Greene, 1 for Pageau, 2 with Ladd), 4 of those picks heading out at the trade deadline, Lou has been making the transactions that absolute Cup contenders make.

But without the Cup.

What is noticeable with, for example, Tampa Bay, is that they nonetheless almost always have 7 or 8 picks in a draft, even if not necessarily in the 1st round. They make other moves along the way to maintain darts for the end of June.

Colorado has done plenty of picking in recent years as well, even if not this past summer.

Since Lou basically does nothing to rehash picks (only did so with Toews and Leddy, but sent two of those three to ARI to get rid of Ladd), any further dishing off a 1st and 2nd rounders at this point is basically organizational suicide.

He's really ultimately proceeding in an "all or nothing" fashion, but without actually signing bonafide NHLers to really have a shot at successfully proceeding in an "all or nothing" fashion.

We just gotta hope that the path he takes with what we have proves to be the right one.

Great take @Chapin Landvogt but I probably say that because I agree with it in its entirety.

Do I detect a gradual change in your perspective of the Isles strategic plan over the last year?

I don’t mean to suck up too much but your opinion is far more informed and respected than most others here. I’d like to hear what minor trades or additions make sense to you now that the offseason maneuvering is almost complete.

 

[Throttle]

This is absolutely correct.

And it really is scary to think where our pool would be at - already widely seen as among the three weakest in hockey - if we hadn't just grabbed a dropper in Raty and, well, a dropper in Dufour as well, who was widely considered a top 100 prospect in his draft year.

Of course, our staff has spent several drafts trying to be smarter than everyone else in taking Holmstrom (seen as mid-to-late 2nd rounder) and Bolduc (largely ranked outside of the top 225 players) in 2019, and then Ljunkrantz (unranked by many) and Jeffries (felt to be outside the top 200 by most every indepent draft guide) in 2020 although i.e. a Martin Chromiak was availabe at both spots after having been pegged as a top 40 talent and having since turned into a dominant OHL scorer.

In fact, looking at the list of guys taken right after Ljunkrantz and then right after Jeffries will make the average prospect afficionado cringe. Check it out here: Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2020



By dealing three straight 1st rounders (Pageau, Palmieri, Romanov) and another four 2nd rounders in the process (1 for Greene, 1 for Pageau, 2 with Ladd), 4 of those picks heading out at the trade deadline, Lou has been making the transactions that absolute Cup contenders make.

But without the Cup.

What is noticeable with, for example, Tampa Bay, is that they nonetheless almost always have 7 or 8 picks in a draft, even if not necessarily in the 1st round. They make other moves along the way to maintain darts for the end of June.

Colorado has done plenty of picking in recent years as well, even if not this past summer.

Since Lou basically does nothing to rehash picks (only did so with Toews and Leddy, but sent two of those three to ARI to get rid of Ladd), any further dishing off a 1st and 2nd rounders at this point is basically organizational suicide.

He's really ultimately proceeding in an "all or nothing" fashion, but without actually signing bonafide NHLers to really have a shot at successfully proceeding in an "all or nothing" fashion.

We just gotta hope that the path he takes with what we have proves to be the right one.

‘But without the Cup’ - ok, well, that’s kinda of those players on the ice. He steadily went for it. He used those picks in an attempt to win the Cup - nothing wrong with that.

If the youth on the team stepped the heck up, then this team should be fine. If they continue to sputter, well, that was on the former ‘omg, why did we fire that coach’ and the ‘never been a nhl coach before.’

The Isles are not the Sharks that went for it, aged out, and tied themselves up in awful contracts. But the GM was doing what the owner wanted - to try to win to keep butts in the seats.

Didn’t we already rebuild for about 30 years?

I still think this team can challenge. It’s the same core that took an $8M over the cap Tampa team to within 1 goal of the finals.

The biggest question is less about the roster and more how the team responds to the new coach, imo.

Agree.

Also, interested to see how far the open rec playoffs of last year returns this year.

 

[MJF]

Didn’t we already rebuild for about 30 years?

Yes. Under different ownerships, and incompetent managements.

The biggest question is less about the roster and more how the team responds to the new coach, imo.

It is now, because that's all we have left.

 

[Sparksrus3]

The biggest question is less about the roster and more how the team responds to the new coach, imo.

the 2 recent seasons in the ECF the one word to describe our team was swarm. 4 lines never stopped putting pressure on the opponent . I agree with above but also feel Clutter ,Martin,and Cizikas can no longer make the magic happen . Without those 3 at their best and the roster mostly the same but older we will fall short. A guy like Wally needs to breakout maybe put up 30. Why not our guys ?

 

[The Real JT]

the 2 recent seasons in the ECF the one word to describe our team was swarm. 4 lines never stopped putting pressure on the opponent . I agree with above but also feel Clutter ,Martin,and Cizikas can no longer make the magic happen . Without those 3 at their best and the roster mostly the same but older we will fall short. A guy like Wally needs to breakout maybe put up 30. Why not our guys ?

Agreed and I also think the loss of Trotz is overlooked by some of the more optimistic fans here.

Aside from the Wally breakout, I suspect 2 or more similar upside surprises along with a relatively injury free season is what we need to make a deep run. I’m not counting on it but I’ll keep my fingers crossed. I’ll add once again that not signing Kadri was the best non-move Lou has made.

 

[Throttle]

Agreed and I also think the loss of Trotz is overlooked by some of the more optimistic fans here.

Aside from the Wally breakout, I suspect 2 or more similar upside surprises along with a relatively injury free season is what we need to make a deep run. I’m not counting on it but I’ll keep my fingers crossed. I’ll add once again that not signing Kadri was the best non-move Lou has made.

And if the Isles get a benefit in 'development' from a new coach, then that should be a good thing. Another good thing is that Lou on several occasions supported the team at or near the deadline when he felt the team could do something. He didn't make such a move last deadline, well, because it was clear they were not.

 

[Mike C]

Agreed and I also think the loss of Trotz is overlooked by some of the more optimistic fans here.

Aside from the Wally breakout, I suspect 2 or more similar upside surprises along with a relatively injury free season is what we need to make a deep run. I’m not counting on it but I’ll keep my fingers crossed. I’ll add once again that not signing Kadri was the best non-move Lou has made.

Agree on all you said except Kadri. I kinda wanted him onboard but I'm not one to go apeshit either way on such matters. I try to stay relatively even keel either way on most things (except maybe fantasy baseball!)

 

[Sparksrus3]

Agree on all you said except Kadri. I kinda wanted him onboard but I'm not one to go apeshit either way on such matters. I try to stay relatively even keel either way on most things (except maybe fantasy baseball!)

I played fantasy baseball before there was fantasy baseball. It was called Strat-O-Matic

 

[Mike C]

I played fantasy baseball before there was fantasy baseball. It was called Strat-O-Matic

Played it religiously. APBA too

 

[PWJunior]

I played fantasy baseball before there was fantasy baseball. It was called Strat-O-Matic

Don Mattingly had that one crazy year in Strat-O-Matic and he raked for me in the simulations. I remember using the '27 Yankees and Gehrig had like 200 RBI's. Ah, the memories.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Played it religiously. APBA too

Don Mattingly had that one crazy year in Strat-O-Matic and he raked for me in the simulations. I remember using the '27 Yankees and Gehrig had like 200 RBI's. Ah, the memories.

I will guess that Electric Football was also played in your yute . Yes yute

 

[Mike C]

I will guess that Electric Football was also played in your yute . Yes yute

Joe Namath electric football at that!

Bobby Hull Hockey and how about

Rock em Sock em Robots!

 

[Sparksrus3]

Joe Namath electric football at that!

Bobby Hull Hockey and how about

Rock em Sock em Robots!

i think they still make RS Robots. my first pair had it then after an oops 10 years later my second pair had it

 

[Sparksrus3]

Joe Namath electric football at that!

Bobby Hull Hockey and how about

Rock em Sock em Robots!

NEW POLL
PLEASE ONLY VOTE ONCE ….. VOTING CLOSED

TOPIC : Sparksrus3 Likes Received Percentages

Mike C - 99 percent
Random - .6 percent
Mistake - .4 percent

Now its time to fire up the barby . I think tonight it will be charcoal instead of propane

 

[Mike C]

NEW POLL
PLEASE ONLY VOTE ONCE ….. VOTING CLOSED

TOPIC : Sparksrus3 Likes Received Percentages

Mike C - 99 percent
Random - .6 percent
Mistake - .4 percent

Now its time to fire up the barby . I think tonight it will be charcoal instead of propane

Make it 99.1%

I'll be eating whatever my wife puts in front of me!

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Great take @Chapin Landvogt but I probably say that because I agree with it in its entirety.

Do I detect a gradual change in your perspective of the Isles strategic plan over the last year?

I don’t mean to suck up too much but your opinion is far more informed and respected than most others here. I’d like to hear what minor trades or additions make sense to you now that the offseason maneuvering is almost complete.

That's extremely flattering!

And I wish I'd have a really nice answer for you, but I am not really good at the armchair GMing game.

When the season ended, I said I was certain that Lou would add two LHDs, one being a mid-20s impact player, and a forward who can play with Barzal. Didn't have to be a star, but rather a guy they identify as being able to aptly make use of all the intracies that comes with running shotgun with Barzal.

I went into summer thinking it was about 70% chance that we'd be moving our 1st rounder for one of those pieces and twisted that down to 50/50 in the days before the draft. I also felt one of the guys would come via a lateral "hockey trade" and then the last one via free agency.

Well, Lou has acquired one of the three players I was certain he'd bring in from the outside. He used the 1st rounder to do it - again.

I actually thought my assessment was rather conservative and well, obvious, because it seemed to be the exact needs we basically all recognized coming out of last season.

I'm surprised Lou would really go without adding a single UFA. Sure, may still happen. September 1st isn't here yet, much less training camp.

I think the most likely addition at this point is another Dman for the left side with experience. Likely on the cheap or first via a PTO.

Alas, I'm feeling as though Lou simply wants Lambert to get a crack at this team as it was. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the only news before training camp is the announcement of the Bellows, Dobson, and Romanov deals.

Any moves I'd suggest as an armchair GM would be about making a lateral trade that also helps add a bit of cap space. But that was with the thought of creating cap space to add a Kadri-style UFA.

I just hope at this point that if the team is truly gonna enter the season with Aho/Salo on that 3rd pairing and Bellows/Parise/Wahlstrom skating with Barzal, that these guys really understand how much trust he is placing in them to be the answer and actually repay it by, well, being the answer.

It's hard for us to imagine, but maybe a Wahlstrom or Bellows or Salo is ready to make Lou look like a genious?

 

[danteipp]

In my limited viewing of the WJC, it appears that the Rags prospects in Othmann, Sykora, Cuylle, Berard and Chmelar all take great pride in playing like dirt bags.

Borderline hits, kneeing, slew foots, etc. they are seemingly well on their way to Subban/Cooke levels of dirty play.

Othmann especially for all of his physical talent, seems to be showing a penchant for not listening to his coaches and is just constantly bouncing between in-game benchings and demotions.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

Joe Namath electric football at that!

Bobby Hull Hockey and how about

Rock em Sock em Robots!

Those electric football games were like like razor blades if you put your finger between the game and the inside of the box. And they got hotter than sh*t. God forbid you leave a towel on it if you forgot to shut it off.
Anything goes was the way of life back then. The kids survived...most of them.