Confirmed with Link: New York Rangers Sign Adam Fox to Entry Level Deal

[Leetch3]

I guess I'd like the Canes to "take credit" for player development, but other than leaving guys ripen in the NCAA, they didn't do much development of their D.

Slavin played only 14 AHL games after leaving college. Pesce played on 7 AHL games after leaving college. Faulk came right to the NHL after college but was sent to the AHL for 12 games mid season when he struggled but came back up. Hanifin came straight to the NHL from college. Hamilton and TVR were traded for, CDH was a UFA signing. I think they are doing a much better job now with guys like McKeown, Bean, and even Fleury.

For me, defensemen have to have elite decision making abilities to be really successful. Make the right play at the right moment. There's an article about the Canes scouting Slavin where Bert Marshall said he watch Slavin a number of times on a bad team and Slavin would end up -3, but he marveled that he always made the right decision. Fox I think has that. Interestingly enough, that was a complaint many Canes fans had with Hanifin. Made the wrong decisions at the wrong times and probably why the team moved on from him so early.

When you combine that decision making ability with size and skating and/or some other skill (like a great shot or playmaking ability), it's a great combination for today's NHL.

all good points but while it seems odd to give a team credit for letting a player develop somewhere else, I think that is actually a big part of development. knowing which players to leave where they are and which players need to be in different situations or in the pros/ahl is hugely important.

 

[Leetch3]

also we picked calle anderson 1 spot ahead of slavin...FML

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

all good points but while it seems odd to give a team credit for letting a player develop somewhere else, I think that is actually a big part of development. knowing which players to leave where they are and which players need to be in different situations or in the pros/ahl is hugely important.

Good point and that's true. Tough call with NCAA guys. Leave them too long and there's the risk of them going UFA. Don't leave them long enough (I think Hanifin was in the NHL too soon, but understand it as well. ) and it can hurt development.

 

[Synergy27]

I guess I'd like the Canes to "take credit" for player development, but other than leaving guys ripen in the NCAA, they didn't do much development of their D.

Slavin played only 14 AHL games after leaving college. Pesce played on 7 AHL games after leaving college. Faulk came right to the NHL after college but was sent to the AHL for 12 games mid season when he struggled but came back up. Hanifin came straight to the NHL from college. Hamilton and TVR were traded for, CDH was a UFA signing. I think they are doing a much better job now with guys like McKeown, Bean, and even Fleury.

For me, defensemen have to have elite decision making abilities to be really successful. Make the right play at the right moment. There's an article about the Canes scouting Slavin where Bert Marshall said he watch Slavin a number of times on a bad team and Slavin would end up -3, but he marveled that he always made the right decision. Fox I think has that. Interestingly enough, that was a complaint many Canes fans had with Hanifin. Made the wrong decisions at the wrong times and probably why the team moved on from him so early.

When you combine that decision making ability with size and skating and/or some other skill (like a great shot or playmaking ability), it's a great combination for today's NHL.

Excellent response. Good stuff.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I guess I'd like the Canes to "take credit" for player development, but other than leaving guys ripen in the NCAA, they didn't do much development of their D.

Slavin played only 14 AHL games after leaving college. Pesce played on 7 AHL games after leaving college. Faulk came right to the NHL after college but was sent to the AHL for 12 games mid season when he struggled but came back up. Hanifin came straight to the NHL from college. Hamilton and TVR were traded for, CDH was a UFA signing. I think they are doing a much better job now with guys like McKeown, Bean, and even Fleury.

For me, defensemen have to have elite decision making abilities to be really successful. Make the right play at the right moment. There's an article about the Canes scouting Slavin where Bert Marshall said he watch Slavin a number of times on a bad team and Slavin would end up -3, but he marveled that he always made the right decision. Fox I think has that. Interestingly enough, that was a complaint many Canes fans had with Hanifin. Made the wrong decisions at the wrong times and probably why the team moved on from him so early.

When you combine that decision making ability with size and skating and/or some other skill (like a great shot or playmaking ability), it's a great combination for today's NHL.

this is why we need to clear up some space on D and let the young guys play. enough of Shatt and Staal already.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

this is why we need to clear up some space on D and let the young guys play. enough of Shatt and Staal already.

While Shattenkirk hasn't been great, he has at least not been a complete liability and still has value in a trade. Staal won't be bought out because he's the one real leader they have who doesn't yell at the kids when they make a mistake.

Marc Staal is in many ways that older guy in the office who has been around forever, but doesn't understand how the latest tools work, yet employees and management look to him for guidance as a mentor

 

[eco's bones]

While Shattenkirk hasn't been great, he has at least not been a complete liability and still has value in a trade. Staal won't be bought out because he's the one real leader they have who doesn't yell at the kids when they make a mistake.

Marc Staal is in many ways that older guy in the office who has been around forever, but doesn't understand how the latest tools work, yet employees and management look to him for guidance as a mentor

I think both Shattenkirk and Staal have cap hits much greater than their value. Shattenkirk does move the puck around better than Staal but he's much worse defensively. Neither one of them are a part of our future--unless that is they get into scouting/coaching. One of the assets they have over a lot of the young guys is they're mature adults--they have the size and strength to handle physical situations. But really I don't expect either would have much value on the market and the biggest reason for that is they're overpaid.

 

[egelband]

While Shattenkirk hasn't been great, he has at least not been a complete liability and still has value in a trade. Staal won't be bought out because he's the one real leader they have who doesn't yell at the kids when they make a mistake.

Marc Staal is in many ways that older guy in the office who has been around forever, but doesn't understand how the latest tools work, yet employees and management look to him for guidance as a mentor

I was wondering who that guy might be in my office. Then I realized, it's probably me.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I was wondering who that guy might be in my office. Then I realized, it's probably me.

That reminds me of this:

"Everyone has that one friend in their group who always annoys everyone and is always the last to be invited. If you don't know anyone like that, it's probably you"

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

While Shattenkirk hasn't been great, he has at least not been a complete liability and still has value in a trade. Staal won't be bought out because he's the one real leader they have who doesn't yell at the kids when they make a mistake.

Marc Staal is in many ways that older guy in the office who has been around forever, but doesn't understand how the latest tools work, yet employees and management look to him for guidance as a mentor

Shattenkirk is not much of a leader.

Staal is not much of a leader even though he was here forever, time to cut the cord. I don't want him to teach young players that you can just be mediocre and not perform great and still get big contracts in NHL. We can take the cap hit of his buyout. I mean in theory we can use him as a 8th dman, but I think the coach would end up playing him most of the season.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Shattenkirk is not much of a leader.

Staal is not much of a leader even though he was here forever, time to cut the cord. I don't want him to teach young players that you can just be mediocre and not perform great and still get big contracts in NHL. We can take the cap hit of his buyout. I mean in theory we can use him as a 8th dman, but I think the coach would end up playing him most of the season.

There is literally no way for you to know this. We do not see what goes on behind closed doors. What happens in the locker-room, at team meetings, in practice, when they are traveling. Despite his less than desirable performance on the ice, management still values Staal so there must be something he's doing right. Otherwise he would have been bought out instead of Girardi.

Shattenkirk is one of the older guys on the team and the same applies to him. You take your opinion and present it as fact. That's all.

 

[Tawnos]

Staal is very, very clearly a good leader.

Also, he sets one of the best examples for perseverance in the league, which is good for the kids to be around.

 

[McRanger]

I was wondering who that guy might be in my office. Then I realized, it's probably me.

This post was the first response I read on this page, even before I read the post you quoted.

For just a split second I pictured you staring at a newly installed office mirror wondering why you were no longer alone and the new person in the office looked just like you.

 

[darko]

Shattenkirk is not much of a leader.

Staal is not much of a leader even though he was here forever, time to cut the cord. I don't want him to teach young players that you can just be mediocre and not perform great and still get big contracts in NHL. We can take the cap hit of his buyout. I mean in theory we can use him as a 8th dman, but I think the coach would end up playing him most of the season.

You couldn't possibly know this lol.

 

[Tawnos]

You couldn't possibly know this lol.

It’s bad logic anyway. A lot of the best leaders are mediocre at the things their teams do. I’m not just talking about hockey here. On sales teams, for example, often the best leaders were mediocre sales people. Leadership qualities are a different thing.

 

[007]

It’s bad logic anyway. A lot of the best leaders are mediocre at the things their teams do. I’m not just talking about hockey here. On sales teams, for example, often the best leaders were mediocre sales people. Leadership qualities are a different thing.

So true. Part of the reason most good coaches in most sports weren't star players. Staal was a great defenceman who's overcome some pretty big adversity to continue to play at the NHL level (however good anyone thinks he is or isnt). He's also been name-checked as a leader by so many young players over the years, I'm inclined to say he plays a big role in the Rangers locker room.

 

[egelband]

So true. Part of the reason most good coaches in most sports weren't star players. Staal was a great defenceman who's overcome some pretty big adversity to continue to play at the NHL level (however good anyone thinks he is or isnt). He's also been name-checked as a leader by so many young players over the years, I'm inclined to say he plays a big role in the Rangers locker room.

I also think Staal was listening to the coach and learning and changing his game. Staal seemed to me to be much more aggressive in the neutral zone than i had ever seen him be. And he was trying to be more of a transition type defender; turning defense to offense. (I know there's debate on how successful he was).
I think that kind of buy-in from a vet legitimizes the coach; the coach appreciates it; and that's also great "leadership". A terrific example for the young guys. I'm fine with Staal remaining if that's what he's bringing.
Of course this is just a theory.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Staal is very, very clearly a good leader.

Also, he sets one of the best examples for perseverance in the league, which is good for the kids to be around.

if he was he would have gotten the "C" last season. He clearly isn't.

 

[Tawnos]

if he was he would have gotten the "C" last season. He clearly isn't.

He was the only guy to wear an A in every game. New coach didn't want to name a C right away, but rather let the leadership emerge. I don't expect he'll get the C this year, but I would be surprised if he didn't wear the A every game again.

 

[Richard Banger]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Staal got the C this season. Him and maybe Mika strike me as captain material. Not so much anyone else.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Staal got the C this season. Him and maybe Mika strike me as captain material. Not so much anyone else.

They aren't giving the C to someone who will be gone in 2 years. If Kreider is traded, the C will go to Zib. If Kreider isn't traded, then i have no idea who will get it.

 

[nyrage]

Fox played pretty well yesterday and this has become a Staal thread?

 

[Dijock94]

While Shattenkirk hasn't been great, he has at least not been a complete liability and still has value in a trade. Staal won't be bought out because he's the one real leader they have who doesn't yell at the kids when they make a mistake.

Marc Staal is in many ways that older guy in the office who has been around forever, but doesn't understand how the latest tools work, yet employees and management look to him for guidance as a mentor

While I agree with your take on Staal, I read somewhere that when Gorton tried to move Shattenkirk the only offers he got were other teams trying to unload their bad contracts, so I think he needs a bounce back season or to only have a single year left on his deal if we want to move him.

 

[cwede]

Fox played pretty well yesterday and this has become a Staal thread?

some guys just wont let go.
make your point, and move on, please

 

[Fugazy]

Let’s get this back to the thread topic, Adam Fox. Not Marc Staal.