Not sure I understand this sentence. Because coaches do not give rookies the benefit of the doubt, Gorton needs to trade him.
Trading any of the 3 defensive Ss (Staal, Shattenkirk, Smith) is much easier said than done.
Confirmed with Link: New York Rangers Sign Adam Fox to Entry Level Deal
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Trading any of the 3 defensive Ss (Staal, Shattenkirk, Smith) is much easier said than done.
A lot of you are pretty high on Lundqvist. Admittedly, I don't know much about him. I did see one site pushing him out of the first round in a do-over draft. What's type of player is he?
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
I am one that is a little concerned about him, or to put it like that, he went were he -- IMO -- should have gone in the draft. Preferably you want to feel that a late 1st should/could have gone 10-20 spots higher pretty soon after a draft.
He is a tremendous kid, everyone loves him around his team. Plays fearless and with a lot of guts. He will play a big part for Sweden at the U20s next season and should assume a bigger role for Luleå in the SHL. He is mobile in his skating and can get going with the puck. Good shot. But he doesn't really have an 'elite' skill-set.
He is a really late bloomer that like grew a tremendous amount during the summer/fall when he was 15. I think that his skill game compares really to Anton Strålman, but this kid is just so darn small. I think everyone hoped for him to keep growing a little bit, and/or get a little more speed and explosiveness under his feet -- but I don't think that has really happened.
He should do well on a big scene the coming season. I would definitely not write him off, don't get me wrong, he will be exciting to follow the coming years. But if I am Gorts, I wouldn't be tremendously shy of making him available in trade talks etc.
Inferno
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Amazing Kreiderman
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If Fox turns into Shattenkirk that's a great player to have. Shattenkirk from age 21 to 26 was a great NHL player to have. If Fox can replicate that, he will be worth the potential two 2nd rounders we are giving up
redwhiteandblue
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Not to mention the chance to shape and mold said player. Shattenkirk may have never amounted to much more than what he was, at his peak a premier offensive defenseman with holes in his game. With getting a kid this young you get a chance to change that curve, and the potential is there.
The deal is completely worth it IMO.
The deal is completely worth it IMO.
I hope that he is much better. Shattenkirk has always needed to play sheltered minutes. I would hope that Fox can skate a regular shift and play defense at a competent level.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Not being on ice for defensive draws and being kept away from opposition's top players = sheltered minutes.
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Lundkvist needs serious professional and physical growth but time is (still comfortably) on his side.
A random question for you, @Amazing Kreiderman, @ManUtdTobbe and others who are familiar with SHL of course. Lulea had this LD Sellgren at only 20 years old playing on the 1st pair, ahead of Nils. Drafted as an overager in last year in the 6th round by the Canes he seems to be doing well (I didn't pay much attention to him though but he did caught my eye and I was surprised to find out how relatively young he was). What do you think about him?
SA16
Sixstring
The majority of defenseman who are good at offense play "sheltered minutes." It's nonsense.
It's called not wasting your players talents.
It's called not wasting your players talents.
Not that Shattenkirk wasn't a useful player in his early stages, but he never had a season as dominant as Fox just had in college. Fox's freshman year was more impressive than Shattenkirk's junior year. Think Fox will be a better all around player
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Almost by definition you can't shelter someone who's playing 20+ minutes. Yeah, you can try to put players in more favorable situations and Shattenkirk, as an offensive defenceman would obviously benefit more from offensive zone starts but IMHO this is not sheltering.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Well, Sellgren wasn't really ahead of Lundkvist. They play on opposite sides. Sellgren had a great season and was definitely a good pick up by CAR.
It does not happen often that a double overager (3rd year eligible) jumps after a year but he was a large part of Luleå finishing 2nd in the reg season. I think he needs 1-2 years to really make an impact in the NHL but he signed an ATO with the Checkers. Carolina is one of 3 teams I would blindly trust when it comes to drafting defensemen.
To me, being specifically kept away form the opposition's top players because you are not good enough defensively to play against them, is playing sheltered minutes.
Also, when Shatty was young the game was completely different. Shatty bought into Hitch house rules really well and found a role in the game were there were a lot of limitations on a defender. That is hurting him now, you want the defenders to be much more free flowing and be all over the ice, Shatty has never played that way in the NHL.
People are saying that he has lost a step, is injured and what not. But I remember when STL fires Yeo. We were rumored to be after Shatty and I saw several games with STL after he was canned. The new guy wanted to turn the D loose, and gave them orders to skate more with the puck and join the attack more. This was what two years before we got Shatty. He looked awful driving the puck up ice, I made multiple posts about it at the time and that history is still here.
What is my point? If Fox can come in and create a role much more in tune with what you can do in today’s game — he can have a much bigger impact than Shatty did.
Carolina's GM said he had Fox rated above Hughes and Makar
Amazing Kreiderman
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Coming from an organization that drafted Slavin, Pesce and Fauk, that is quite interesting
Oscar Lindberg
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I mean Carolina's GM has been on the job for a year, that isn't saying much
Them saying he is above Hughes and Makar would mean more coming from their scouts for me
And I say that as someone that has wanted Fox for years
Them saying he is above Hughes and Makar would mean more coming from their scouts for me
And I say that as someone that has wanted Fox for years
In addition to being a player, coach and GM, Waddell was also a professional scout for a few years. For what that's worth.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
Not for nothing, but I really think people need to pay more attention to, and/or simply give more credit to, player development. These teams that are good at drafting certain positions are really more likely just better at developing those positions in my opinion. If there was a secret drafting sauce, I’d bet the info would leak or some other scouts would figure it out.
Boom Boom Apathy
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I'm guessing he was trying to butter him up in hoping he'd sign. Waddell wasn't involved in any of the drafting and development of the Canes current D.
That said, I watched a bit of the USA game today and Fox looked really good to me. His skating isn't great (not terrible either), but also didn't look at all like a hindrance on the big ice (granted, only a exhibition game). He was smooth with the puck and makes quick decisions. Solid defensively as well.
I haven't seen a lot of him, but from what I have seen, I'll be surprised if long term he's not at least a top 4 D that is good on the PP. I won't try to compare him to other defensemen though as it's hard to do.
I'm not that upset the Canes didn't sign him. Our D is stacked and still young with a few guys in the system waiting. Don't hold any ill will toward Fox either (not that it matters). I think it was smart for the Rangers to trade for him to ensure he's locked into the Rangers and I think the cost was fair for both sides.
Boom Boom Apathy
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I guess I'd like the Canes to "take credit" for player development, but other than leaving guys ripen in the NCAA, they didn't do much development of their D.
Slavin played only 14 AHL games after leaving college. Pesce played on 7 AHL games after leaving college. Faulk came right to the NHL after college but was sent to the AHL for 12 games mid season when he struggled but came back up. Hanifin came straight to the NHL from college. Hamilton and TVR were traded for, CDH was a UFA signing. I think they are doing a much better job now with guys like McKeown, Bean, and even Fleury.
For me, defensemen have to have elite decision making abilities to be really successful. Make the right play at the right moment. There's an article about the Canes scouting Slavin where Bert Marshall said he watch Slavin a number of times on a bad team and Slavin would end up -3, but he marveled that he always made the right decision. Fox I think has that. Interestingly enough, that was a complaint many Canes fans had with Hanifin. Made the wrong decisions at the wrong times and probably why the team moved on from him so early.
When you combine that decision making ability with size and skating and/or some other skill (like a great shot or playmaking ability), it's a great combination for today's NHL.
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