OT: New Owner! New Name? New Season? New Everything!!! — Oh, and New Thread. All things Washington NFL FootBall (beat it, Dan-Bag!!)

[Beef Invictus]

Hope you had a good lunch RALPH

RR said Jamin needs our support during his tough times. Me? Have fun in jail. Reckless in VA = FAFO.

110 on Loudoun County Parkway is f***ing insane. Way too many intersections to risk that. Pure luck nobody died.

 

[kicksavedave]

Not sure if you are serious. 16/13 TD/INT in 16 starts was fantastic. He was Trent Dilfer 2.0 during his time in DC. He played not to lose.

Dead serious.

Washington QBs since 2012:

RGIII 14-22
Kirk Cousins 26-31
Colt McCoy 1-6
Josh Johnson 1-2
Mark Sanchez 0-1
Case Keenum 1-7
Dwayne Haskins 3-10
Kyle Allen 1-3
Garret Gilbert 0-1
Ryan Fitzpatrick 0-1
Taylor Heineke 12-12-1 (2nd best in the decade)
Carson Wentz 1-7
Sam Howell 1-0*

Alex Smith, 11-5.

Stats are not the whole picture, and playing not to lose, and being successful at it, means winning. What were the other guys doing who were "playing to win" and yet still losing most of their games? I mean the QBs who played over the 3 seasons that Smith was with the team, combined for about 5-20 while Smith went 11-5. Maybe everyone should have played not to lose? It worked.

* Howells one game sample isn't going to change this argument. Collectively all the rest of the QBs in the last 10 years stunk like rotten ass. Except Alex Smith who was 11-5 before and after his injury.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Alex Smith just didn’t play enough for the Law of Danny to even out his record….

 

[usiel]

110 on Loudoun County Parkway is f***ing insane. Way too many intersections to risk that. Pure luck nobody died.

I have a GT500 and yeah I don't get it. He should definitely not have a license for a while like a year.

 

[John Price]

You just can't be doing that there, I live like 5 minutes from there and drive 50. Too many intersections, traffic lights at Glouchester Parkway / Waxpool Road et al

Also, he was doing that at 1 PM when the road is full of traffic

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Dead serious.

Washington QBs since 2012:

RGIII 14-22
Kirk Cousins 26-31
Colt McCoy 1-6
Josh Johnson 1-2
Mark Sanchez 0-1
Case Keenum 1-7
Dwayne Haskins 3-10
Kyle Allen 1-3
Garret Gilbert 0-1
Ryan Fitzpatrick 0-1
Taylor Heineke 12-12-1 (2nd best in the decade)
Carson Wentz 1-7
Sam Howell 1-0*

Alex Smith, 11-5.

Stats are not the whole picture, and playing not to lose, and being successful at it, means winning. What were the other guys doing who were "playing to win" and yet still losing most of their games? I mean the QBs who played over the 3 seasons that Smith was with the team, combined for about 5-20 while Smith went 11-5. Maybe everyone should have played not to lose? It worked.

* Howells one game sample isn't going to change this argument. Collectively all the rest of the QBs in the last 10 years stunk like rotten ass. Except Alex Smith who was 11-5 before and after his injury.

16/13 TD/INT suggests other factors led to that winning record. Hell, Smiths last season, with his reconstructed leg, he was 5-1 as a starter but threw 6 TDs to 8 INTs. You think he was responsible for that 5-1 record playing the way he did?

Putting stats aside, was Alex Smith worth Kendall Fuller, a 3rd and a 94 million contract extension?

Compensation to get him and how he played after trade, including stats and injury, factor into determining whether a trade was good or bad. Seems pretty clear it was not a good trade.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I like it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You just can't be doing that there, I live like 5 minutes from there and drive 50. Too many intersections, traffic lights at Glouchester Parkway / Waxpool Road et al

Also, he was doing that at 1 PM when the road is full of traffic

I don't even know how he managed to hit that speed. Guy deserves no leniency.

 

[Beef Invictus]

16/13 TD/INT suggests other factors led to that winning record. Hell, Smiths last season, with his reconstructed leg, he was 5-1 as a starter but threw 6 TDs to 8 INTs. You think he was responsible for that 5-1 record playing the way he did?

Putting stats aside, was Alex Smith worth Kendall Fuller, a 3rd and a 94 million contract extension?

Compensation to get him and how he played after trade, including stats and injury, factor into determining whether a trade was good or bad. Seems pretty clear it was not a good trade.

Alex Smith was born 10-15 years too early. His playstyle in his prime in current RPO influenced offenses would have been a great match. Especially if this alternate universe Smith realizes passing distances beyond 15 yards exist before his leg gets destroyed so defenses actually spend some time thinning out up front to respect deep balls against him.

 

[John Price]

I like it.

There was a good read somewhere about how Bieniemy is tough on the players but fair. He'll cuss them out if he sees stuff he doesn't like, but if they're doing well he'll encourage them. There was a story of how Sam made a mistake and realized it and Bieniemy didn't chew him out. "You know what you did, that's fine."

It's not like he's screaming at them all the time, but when he does, they deserve it. In an era where too many players are coddled its' nice to have a voice that holds players accountable

I don't even know how he managed to hit that speed. Guy deserves no leniency.

I'm struggling to find out why someone would psychologically want to do that at 1 pm but I'm not a rich million dollar athlete. And it wasn't only him too. Lot of athletes love to speed. Me I'm trying not to get pulled over.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I like it.

I think every Baltimore fan has been screaming this at their TVs every single game for 15 years.

 

[Neil Racki]

Chase is our locker room "energy" leader imo.

Man is going to ball out this season.

 

[kicksavedave]

16/13 TD/INT suggests other factors led to that winning record. Hell, Smiths last season, with his reconstructed leg, he was 5-1 as a starter but threw 6 TDs to 8 INTs. You think he was responsible for that 5-1 record playing the way he did?

Putting stats aside, was Alex Smith worth Kendall Fuller, a 3rd and a 94 million contract extension?

Compensation to get him and how he played after trade, including stats and injury, factor into determining whether a trade was good or bad. Seems pretty clear it was not a good trade.

Its not as simple as just looking at the stats, it never has been. The play of the entire team can be impacted. Just as an example, imagine how much motivation the OL has when Dwayne Haskins is back there doing Dwayne Haskins things, holding the ball too long, taking sacks and throwing to the wrong guys. Imagine the WRs not running full proper routes because they know Haskins won't find them. Then imagine the confidence they all have with AS under center? Improved QB play improves the entire team, and while AS may not have been Peyton Mannning, he was the best QB they had under center in many years,.... for much of the roster the best QB they had for their entire tenure in DC. The defense also may have played better, because maybe they knew AS would not throw the game away in the 4th qtr like Haskins or Mark Sanchez or Case Keenum was doing week in/week out. Heck we even saw how the whole team rallied around Taylor Heineke instead of Carson Wentz, so its also true they rallied around AS instead of Keenum or Allen or Haskins. This seems strikingly obvious and you also need to compare AS's stats on the same team as those other bums.

If Alex Smith had not gotten his leg destroyed, he absolutely would have been worth that trade and that contract, without a doubt. So again, it was bad luck, not a bad trade.

11-5 under Dan Snyder, Jay Gruden and RR, should actually put him in the Hall of Fame

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Its not as simple as just looking at the stats, it never has been. The play of the entire team can be impacted. Just as an example, imagine how much motivation the OL has when Dwayne Haskins is back there doing Dwayne Haskins things, holding the ball too long, taking sacks and throwing to the wrong guys. Imagine the WRs not running full proper routes because they know Haskins won't find them. Then imagine the confidence they all have with AS under center? Improved QB play improves the entire team, and while AS may not have been Peyton Mannning, he was the best QB they had under center in many years,.... for much of the roster the best QB they had for their entire tenure in DC. The defense also may have played better, because maybe they knew AS would not throw the game away in the 4th qtr like Haskins or Mark Sanchez or Case Keenum was doing week in/week out. Heck we even saw how the whole team rallied around Taylor Heineke instead of Carson Wentz, so its also true they rallied around AS instead of Keenum or Allen or Haskins. This seems strikingly obvious and you also need to compare AS's stats on the same team as those other bums.

If Alex Smith had not gotten his leg destroyed, he absolutely would have been worth that trade and that contract, without a doubt. So again, it was bad luck, not a bad trade.

11-5 under Dan Snyder, Jay Gruden and RR, should actually put him in the Hall of Fame

Ohhh pulllleeeese….they had a better guy just the year before. That trade was a flop. He got hurt, but had he not, he’s not leading that roster to playoff wins, he probably just wins enough to keep them mediocre, just like the guy before him….he was a safe bridge acquisition and that’s about it, not horrible because of the bad luck, but not that good either.

Smith was a consummate pro and good leader, but limited big time at his position for my tastes.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Ohhh pulllleeeese….they had a better guy just the year before. That trade was a flop. He got hurt, but had he not, he’s not leading that roster to playoff wins, he probably just wins enough to keep them mediocre, just like the guy before him….he was a safe bridge acquisition and that’s about it, not horrible because of the bad luck, but not that good either.

Smith was a consummate pro and good leader, but limited big time at his position for my tastes.

Nah. Smith was not a bad trade. At all. His getting hurt was bad. But that’s it’s. Fuller is a decent enough CB, but let’s not pretend he’s Champ Bailey. A 3rd is a 3rd. Possible starter, but definitely someone that should make the roster.

I know you were (are) a Kirk strap-supporter, and that decision to walk away from Captain K colours your opinion. I get that.

Kurt was Kurt. As he’s always been. A middling QB who’s been woefully overpaid, and Skins/Lil Danny totally botched the situation. All true.

But that doesn’t make the Smith trade a “flop”. They were in the same place w a healthy Smith as they were with Kurt. Fighting for the playoffs….and at 2/3rds or less the salary. But shit happens.

Had Kurt been hurt his first season in MN and Smith lead the team to the same trajectory he started with, this would be a whole other discussion.

However it didn’t. So meh.

Why we keep talking about this, I don’t even know.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Smith trade wasn’t a success that’s for sure. But whatever.…it’s hardly worth arguing over. At this point I only care about looking forward, until the next time someone else brings it up….

 

[Neil Racki]

Alex Smith -- Im middle of the road. He did bring competency to the position, he could run a playbook, make the right pre snap checks, trusted to play possession ball, get the ball out quickly.

Alex Smth trade wasnt bad .. the re-signing right away when we didnt have to was bad imo.

Theres maybe 20 "competent" QBs in any given year and we usually dont have one. Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins were the most recent.

Right now .. Brissett is just outside the competent tier but he had a good QBR last year, seems to be a poor mans Alex Smith.

Howell is a nothing right now. Complete question mark. I like some of what Ive seen but hes an unknown imo.

Going to be an interesting season.

Excited to see Howell, Chase Young and Forbes.

 

[kicksavedave]

Ohhh pulllleeeese….they had a better guy just the year before. That trade was a flop. He got hurt, but had he not, he’s not leading that roster to playoff wins, he probably just wins enough to keep them mediocre, just like the guy before him….he was a safe bridge acquisition and that’s about it, not horrible because of the bad luck, but not that good either.

Smith was a consummate pro and good leader, but limited big time at his position for my tastes.

AS passed for 4,000 yards, 26 TDs, 5 Ints and league leading 104.7 QBR in 2017 when they traded for him. So no, he was not limited, he was perfectly able to run a very good NFL offense. In 2018 He was 6-3 in games he stated and finished, and the Redskins were 1-6 in the games he didn't finish... so if there is a WAR for QBs, he was way up there. Then in 2020 when he came back from his injury, they were 2-7 when he took over as the starter and went 5-2 with him and made the playoffs. Lets not forget the 3-13 record in 2019 when he was rebuilding his leg.

So to suggest that he wasn't going to win playoff games, when the team was actually competing for the first overall draft pick without him, is missing the point entirely. The team stunk to high heaven without him and they had a winning record with him under center. That says it all. Same team, same defense, same coaches - Over three years they went 11-5 with him starting and 6-26 without him. Let that sink in.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

The mental gymnastics it takes to say the Alex Smith trade was a good trade is a sight to see. Never a dull moment on this site.

What some of you fail to remember, or purposely omit, is by trading for Smith and agreeing to extend Smith DC let Cousins walk for nothing. That’s part of the trade.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

AS passed for 4,000 yards, 26 TDs, 5 Ints and league leading 104.7 QBR in 2017 when they traded for him. So no, he was not limited, he was perfectly able to run a very good NFL offense. In 2018 He was 6-3 in games he stated and finished, and the Redskins were 1-6 in the games he didn't finish... so if there is a WAR for QBs, he was way up there. Then in 2020 when he came back from his injury, they were 2-7 when he took over as the starter and went 5-2 with him and made the playoffs. Lets not forget the 3-13 record in 2019 when he was rebuilding his leg.

So to suggest that he wasn't going to win playoff games, when the team was actually competing for the first overall draft pick without him, is missing the point entirely. The team stunk to high heaven without him and they had a winning record with him under center. That says it all. Same team, same defense, same coaches - Over three years they went 11-5 with him starting and 6-26 without him. Let that sink in.

Limited…..agree to disagree….


you’re using his one best season by far as an example for what he brought back then…..and the team he had that year with moved on from him immediately after that season of production…..he was fools gold.

Redskins let the better version walk and traded for the downgraded model lol….that will never qualify as a good trade for me.

 

[kicksavedave]

Limited…..agree to disagree….


you’re using his one best season by far as an example for what he brought back then…..and the team he had that year with moved on from him immediately after that season of production…..he was fools gold.

Redskins let the better version walk and traded for the downgraded model lol….that will never qualify as a good trade for me.

We can say KC was the "better version" in terms of compiling stats, but in terms of wins and losses and especially clutch play down the stretch in tight games, he was not better, IMHO.

There's no dispute they botched the KC ordeal entirely. That's agreed. I just don't think the price they paid to get Smith, or his contract, were that bad. And Smith, as demonstrated, won games when everyone, including KC, but especially his immediate colleagues, didn't.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

We can say KC was the "better version" in terms of compiling stats, but in terms of wins and losses and especially clutch play down the stretch in tight games, he was not better, IMHO.

There's no dispute they botched the KC ordeal entirely. That's agreed. I just don't think the price they paid to get Smith, or his contract, were that bad. And Smith, as demonstrated, won games when everyone, including KC, but especially his immediate colleagues, didn't.

Serious question, when comparing careers as of today, who is the better QB? Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins?

And let’s keep in mind Smith was a #1 overall pick and Cousins was a #102 overall pick.

 

[g00n]

holy shit lol