New IIHF world ranking 2022

[ViD]

They just "agreed" to skip this year entirely, thus they will surely accept conditional return.

No, they won’t accept any relegation.

 

[ozo]

No, they won’t accept any relegation.

You base this on literally nothing. Russian sports teams/athletes in past decade for doping violations have endured exclusions from competitions, result expulsions, taken away medals, removal of flag/anthem and even the very name of Russia itself was stripped. But now Russian hockey suddenly will draw the line when they will be asked for single year to play in 1A? Sure...

 

[ViD]

You base this on literally nothing. Russian sports teams/athletes in past decade for doping violations have endured exclusions from competitions, result expulsions, taken away medals, removal of flag/anthem and even the very name of Russia itself was stripped. But now Russian hockey suddenly will draw the line when they will be asked for single year to play in 1A? Sure...

Because people like Fetisov end others already commented on it and said we should rather leave IIHF forever than endure this kind of humiliation. And I agree with them - Russia didn’t relegate on sports competition basis or even sports related stuff like doping or fan violence. This is purely based on politics

 

[Urbanskog]

US have won 10 U-18 since 2002. What an awful record. Wonderful attempt at cherry picking.

Stating the last time that the US won the U18 Championship somehow qualifies as cherry picking? Whether you like it or not, the US is not 2nd in the world by any meaningful metric.

NHL Totals by Nationality ‑ 2021‑2022 Stats

NHL Totals by Nationality - 2021-2022 Regular Season Stats

www.quanthockey.com

The USA has over 200 more NHL players as of this most recent season than the 3rd highest total.

Granted, more "marginal" players will stay at home, compared to the U.S. where the NHL is their "home" league, but when the numbers are that overwhelming and we already know all the best Euro guys DO come over, it's pretty clear. The U.S. does well at the U-20 WJC on a year-to-year basis, which is a better basis than the IIHF World Championships because it represents the best junior players of each year (those immediately prior to professional, the effect of U-20 NHLers is negligible and doesn't harm one country more than the rest).


There is no justification to have Russia anywhere but the top division, even in bad years, they are never worse than the 5th best. Don't care as much about Belarus but they are usually top-15 ish.

There being more US players in the domestic league of the US hardly means that they should be regarded the 2nd best in the world.

 

[Urbanskog]

Because people like Fetisov end others already commented on it and said we should rather leave IIHF forever than endure this kind of humiliation. And I agree with them - Russia didn’t relegate on sports competition basis or even sports related stuff like doping or fan violence. This is purely based on politics

Russia likes to make empty threats, whether it's their national government or their governing body of hockey. If the Russian Ice Hockey Federation would rather keep playing friendlies against Belarus forever than participating in any kind of meaningful international competition because they would otherwise have to accept this supposed "humiliation", then that's their choice.

 

[waitin425]

It is very much likely that by the time Russia is allowed to return all the current players will have retired a long time earlier.

Agreed. Russia is marching towards isolation from everything in the Western World. North Korea 2.0

 

[24 others]

The USA has over 200 more NHL players as of this most recent season than the 3rd highest total.

Not sure this is a good argument.

They had almost three times as many players in the NHL (153) as the next country (Russia, 56) in 1993-1994. Still, you wouldn't expect them to beat the Russians in 1994. Or Swedes. Or Czechs, for that matter.

 

[ViD]

Russia likes to make empty threats, whether it's their national government or their governing body of hockey. If the Russian Ice Hockey Federation would rather keep playing friendlies against Belarus forever than participating in any kind of meaningful international competition because they would otherwise have to accept this supposed "humiliation", then that's their choice.

Don’t act like IIHF or world hockey in general won’t suffer from Russia leaving it forever as well, both parties need to get things back to normal and this relegation serves no purpose as Russia will demolish teams in the lower division.

 

[ozo]

Don’t act like IIHF or world hockey in general won’t suffer from Russia leaving it forever as well, both parties need to get things back to normal and this relegation serves no purpose as Russia will demolish teams in the lower division.

Nobody is saying there is no mutual benefit for both parties here. But RUS/BLR return means that we have 18 team WC on our hands. It is logistically easier to insert both teams in 1A level and in the same year relegate 4 teams from elite tier.

 

[Czechboy]

Don’t act like IIHF or world hockey in general won’t suffer from Russia leaving it forever as well, both parties need to get things back to normal and this relegation serves no purpose as Russia will demolish teams in the lower division.

Personally, I don't want Russia leaving the sports world forever. I miss their teams and the elite goalies. I'm a big fan of the hockey and the players. Now leaving the Ukraine forever would be good though. You want normal, start there.

The Stastny's kicked the hell out of some lower tier teams getting Slovakia to A group... it was unfair to Slovakia too (they also didn't end up in C because of sports performance but politics, some of which were caused by Russia btw).

103 goals for and 18 against. Maybe a retired Datsyuk can come out of retirement and do what Peter Stastny did. Took them 2 years and they did NOTHING to be relegated. In fact, they were the ones that were invaded. That was a misjustice.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Stating the last time that the US won the U18 Championship somehow qualifies as cherry picking? Whether you like it or not, the US is not 2nd in the world by any meaningful metric.

There being more US players in the domestic league of the US hardly means that they should be regarded the 2nd best in the world.

Never said anything about what the US needs to be ranked or should be ranked.

Pointing out how dominant the US has been in U18 after you tried to obviously downplay the US in that particular tournament.

 

[WarriorofTime]

There being more US players in the domestic league of the US hardly means that they should be regarded the 2nd best in the world.

Referring to the NHL as a "domestic league" is a bit ridiculous. Like, yes, technically true, but the salaries and level of play in the NHL are much higher than anywhere else, that is why all of the top European players (like 100% of the top-tier, or 99 % in years where there's the rare exception of a Jagr, Radulov or Kovalchuk in the KHL). Even if you look through the top players in European Leagues, most have at least taken their shot at North America at some point in their career. The gap between the number of U.S. NHLers and European NHLers is too profound to overlook. A country like Finland performs really well in in international competitions, but they don't have the same depth of player pool as the U.S. (I'm not blaming anyone, it's a much smaller populace).

 

[WarriorofTime]

Well it is not the problem of the rest of the world, if the us doesnt feel like icing a better team. They definitely have the players for it. This is like a kid saying well i didnt give it all in the game, thats why i lost.

All the elite Countries have some of the Best players unavailable. Obviously USA has a much bigger pool of players than the european teams. There are more than enough players available to ice a medal contender every year. Just like the canadiens do. If you dont have the interest from sides of players or US Hockey, thats not anyones problem except theirs. If they want to change that they need to change their aproach to this tournaments.

But anyways like mentioned several times before this ranking has not too much of a meaning, except for seedings in IIHF tournament, depending on the performances in the last Tournaments....

Obviously US Hockey is in a great state. They have an amazing development programm and great players. And they are contenders for any Best on Best Tournament.

Nobody is claiming USA is a Top 2 IIHF World Championship nation.

 

[kabidjan18]

Putting Russia and Belarus in D1A would not only be petty, it makes no sense. If Russia and Belarus received no rank points then Belarus wouldn't also be in D1A, it would be in like D2B or something. So it doesn't make sense from a mathematical perspective. It doesn't make sense from a sporting perspective as Russia obviously isn't a D1A team. I haven't heard any IIHF reports that they would do this, and this recent update in the rankings strongly suggests that they won't. So I don't see why this dumb theoretical idea needs to be discussed because it isn't going to happen.

Other than to soothe your personal moral indignation, what do you possibly think is the upside or benefit of the IIHF not including Russia in competitions? Nothing. It benefits Ukraine in no way whatsoever. The EU, the US, and other national governments are working on sanctions packages and benefit packages to motivate Russia towards settlement and bolster Ukraine's defenses. It's not the job of the IIHF to play the role of a national government when it controls nothing of consequence, and would only harm the domain over which it presides, international hockey.

 

[Gold Standard]

Personally, I don't want Russia leaving the sports world forever. I miss their teams and the elite goalies. I'm a big fan of the hockey and the players. Now leaving the Ukraine forever would be good though. You want normal, start there.

The Stastny's kicked the hell out of some lower tier teams getting Slovakia to A group... it was unfair to Slovakia too (they also didn't end up in C because of sports performance but politics, some of which were caused by Russia btw).

View attachment 554715

103 goals for and 18 against. Maybe a retired Datsyuk can come out of retirement and do what Peter Stastny did. Took them 2 years and they did NOTHING to be relegated. In fact, they were the ones that were invaded. That was a misjustice.

Fetisov's nonsensical drivel. Just a lot of hot air, bluster and empty threats. It's what they are good at. International competition is what drives Russian domestic sport. They aren't going anywhere unfortunately.

 

[Jumptheshark]

This implies that when Russia is eventually allowed back into international competitions, they will be granted a direct spot in the top division.

can you picture the russians playing their way back up from the lowest levels?

these are the teams at the lowest level--out of pure spite the RUssian would win gams 200-0

Kuwait	Placed 5th in Division III Q last edition.
Kyrgyzstan	Host, placed 6th in Division III Q last edition.
Malaysia	First time participating in tournament.
Philippines	First time participating in tournament.
Singapore	First time participating in tournament.
Iran	First time participating in tournament.

 

[member 305909]

Hasn't this ranking-system been copied from tennis even though tennis is an individual sport?

Btw, how does it work in tennis if a very successful player retires? Is he removed from the ranking straight away or could his last appearances keep him high in the ranking for some period of time?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Aside from other stuff, why wouldn't you want the best teams there?

can you picture the russians playing their way back up from the lowest levels?

these are the teams at the lowest level--out of pure spite the RUssian would win gams 200-0

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]

Kuwait[/TD]
[TD]Placed 5th in Division III Q last edition.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Kyrgyzstan[/TD]
[TD]Host, placed 6th in Division III Q last edition.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Malaysia[/TD]
[TD]First time participating in tournament.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Philippines[/TD]
[TD]First time participating in tournament.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Singapore[/TD]
[TD]First time participating in tournament.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Iran[/TD]
[TD]First time participating in tournament.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

this would actually be a bit dangerous if Russia actually brought KHL players.

 

[Albatros]

Putting Russia and Belarus in D1A would not only be petty, it makes no sense. If Russia and Belarus received no rank points then Belarus wouldn't also be in D1A, it would be in like D2B or something. So it doesn't make sense from a mathematical perspective. It doesn't make sense from a sporting perspective as Russia obviously isn't a D1A team. I haven't heard any IIHF reports that they would do this, and this recent update in the rankings strongly suggests that they won't. So I don't see why this dumb theoretical idea needs to be discussed because it isn't going to happen.

Other than to soothe your personal moral indignation, what do you possibly think is the upside or benefit of the IIHF not including Russia in competitions? Nothing. It benefits Ukraine in no way whatsoever. The EU, the US, and other national governments are working on sanctions packages and benefit packages to motivate Russia towards settlement and bolster Ukraine's defenses. It's not the job of the IIHF to play the role of a national government when it controls nothing of consequence, and would only harm the domain over which it presides, international hockey.

What is the benefit of Russia to international hockey then? The World Championships were no different without them. The Olympics arguably better without an "OAR" eyesore. They did not even participate in the CHL and other such club competitions to start with. Gazprom money? Good riddance.

 

[WarriorofTime]

What is the benefit of Russia to international hockey then?

Ovechkin,Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, etc. surely you are joking?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Not sure this is a good argument.

They had almost three times as many players in the NHL (153) as the next country (Russia, 56) in 1993-1994. Still, you wouldn't expect them to beat the Russians in 1994. Or Swedes. Or Czechs, for that matter.

Many of the old guard guys from the eastern bloc didn’t come over. That was a few years after the fall of communism so players were still just starting to come. And don’t sell USA back then too short. They won the 96 World Cup of hockey and finished second in the 02 Olympics which were both with A teamers. Since then the USA share of NHLers has only grown even more, largely eating into canadas sizable numbers edge. And the raw numbers don’t even tell the full picture, just look at who the players are. After the top 10 Finns or so you can see a much clearer drop off that goes a lot deeper for the USA in terms of universally regarded good nhl players.

 

[vlady]

Hasn't this ranking-system been copied from tennis even though tennis is an individual sport?

Btw, how does it work in tennis if a very successful player retires? Is he removed from the ranking straight away or could his last appearances keep him high in the ranking for some period of time?

No, it wasn't copied from tennis.

If a player retires, they are not removed straight away. The tennis ranking is a rolling 52-week ranking, which means only the results from the last 52 weeks count. When a player doesn't play for a year, then they disappear from the ranking (there are some special provisions for injured players, I believe).

 

[Albatros]

Ovechkin,Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, etc. surely you are joking?

They're professional athletes in the NHL regardless of these events, it makes no difference.

 

[ViD]

What is the benefit of Russia to international hockey then? The World Championships were no different without them. The Olympics arguably better without an "OAR" eyesore. They did not even participate in the CHL and other such club competitions to start with. Gazprom money? Good riddance.

Same benefit as the US, Canada, Sweden and Finland.

In fact, Russia is the biggest country(population wise) in the world where hockey a top 2 sport

 

[Albatros]

Same benefit as the US, Canada, Sweden and Finland.

In fact, Russia is the biggest country(population wise) in the world where hockey a top 2 sport

The North Americans run the major professional league, while both Sweden and Finland are fully integrated in international hockey, contributing at all levels with utmost integrity. Russia has an isolated league that has now lost any quality it may once have possessed, and a middling national team that has been a constant headache already before due to involvement in systematic doping and other scandals. Not having to deal with any of that is not a loss.