Post-Game Talk: New goalie, new year, same suckiness

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devilsblood

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It' definitely not #1 money i agree but i really don't believe he's an upgrade. I don't believe he's shown he can be successful with a team like this in front of him. I'm not saying I think Fitz just blindly signed him. I think Fitz believed this roster was stronger than it is and thought that the stronger roster would play better in front of him. There in lies the problem, if Fitz really believed in this roster and it fails miserably then he's done. And to be honest it looks like he whiffed. This is a max cap team with $10M+ sunk cost in the goalie position and that doesn't include Schneider buyout. It has to compete for a playoff spot.
Over what he rolled out there last year? He's absolutely an upgrade.

MAF was a guy I was interested in, but it sounds like he's been brutal to start the season too.

Which get's me back to another theme I've been pushing for awhile now, acquiring good goalies is not easy. Keeping the good one's healthy is a whole other thing. Just look at the goal tending in the playoffs last year. 40 year old guys, #3's, guys with sub .900 save %. And those are the good teams.
 

Omar Little

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Had to collect my thoughts on last night. I really feel as though there's too many things here at play that singling out one over the other is a fool's errand.

First off, I can never fault any fan for being upset and booing but I really have a strong distaste for the boos in the pregame intros and the fire Lindy chants. Especially in a game like last night where I felt the effort was largely there. I get that effort does not equal production, but this was a game that we very likely should have one. (Yeah, I know, same old story.)

There is something fundamentally wrong with what we do in our own zone when we have the puck. I need to watch it more closely but whether it's indecisiveness from our defenders or lack of support from our forwards, when things go awry it becomes chaos. It tends to lead to these chances occurring. We don't always give up a ton of chances but when we do, they're high danger seemingly every time.

And from there, you'd like it if your goalie could bail you out once or twice. I do believe that wears on a team mentally as well. And I really am sick of those complaining about the GM not trying to fix goaltending when he has attempted to each year since he has been in charge. I still stand by the fact that I haven't seen goaltending this subpar leaguewide in my years of being a fan.

Finally, the lack of production or converting chances on the forwards. I don't believe that this is going to be a problem for long, but it to me is the ultimate reason for this loss at the end of the day. If the team converts on any of these earlier chances, especially in the second period, we likely see a much different outcome. That's just how a game goes. If we go up 3-2, perhaps we have more momentum and you don't see the errors at the end of that period occur. The swing of giving up the go ahead goal, giving away a late PP with a bad penalty by Tatar and then the dagger goal with .8 seconds left was really the nail in the coffin. It sucked the life out of the entire team and building.

Of course I don't believe Lindy is long for this job but I do feel there has to be a point where the players have to hold themselves accountable. I don't agree with everything Lindy does, especially with how he has deployed the lineup in these first two games, but I do think there are things the players need to start recognizing that have been detriments to their potential success in these first two games.

I hope to see the defensive lineup altered next game, and would like to see Bahl get a shot as well. I like that Smith is being a vocal leader and recognizes his role, but he can do that as a scratch. He seems to be weighing Marino down so far.

Our system requires everything to be too perfect. When it’s clicking it works really well. When it doesn’t you get last night and the game before. Unfortunately the success rate is like 30%
 
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My3Sons

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Both are true... it's a bad team not just bad goalies. This is the truth that is trying to be avoided by talking about just goalies.
I don’t think too many folks are saying it’s just the goalies exclusive of anything else. It’s like the old adage about firing one coach instead of twenty players. You can have four bad plays leading to a shot agsinst but if that goalie makes the save - which the better ones can do at times- it’s easier than fixing five bad defensive plays or an entirely flawed system. Blaming the lack of scoring when you are giving up five goals a game is also overly simplistic though. Saying if they could score six goals a game they could win is not something any NHL team will have success with. Everything is bad right now. They have to right the ship but if the team sees Ruff as a lame duck they just may not respond Or if they don’t buy into his system they won’t respond. It’s ugky right now.
 

devilsblood

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Had to collect my thoughts on last night. I really feel as though there's too many things here at play that singling out one over the other is a fool's errand.

First off, I can never fault any fan for being upset and booing but I really have a strong distaste for the boos in the pregame intros and the fire Lindy chants. Especially in a game like last night where I felt the effort was largely there. I get that effort does not equal production, but this was a game that we very likely should have one. (Yeah, I know, same old story.)

There is something fundamentally wrong with what we do in our own zone when we have the puck. I need to watch it more closely but whether it's indecisiveness from our defenders or lack of support from our forwards, when things go awry it becomes chaos. It tends to lead to these chances occurring. We don't always give up a ton of chances but when we do, they're high danger seemingly every time.

And from there, you'd like it if your goalie could bail you out once or twice. I do believe that wears on a team mentally as well. And I really am sick of those complaining about the GM not trying to fix goaltending when he has attempted to each year since he has been in charge. I still stand by the fact that I haven't seen goaltending this subpar leaguewide in my years of being a fan.

Finally, the lack of production or converting chances on the forwards. I don't believe that this is going to be a problem for long, but it to me is the ultimate reason for this loss at the end of the day. If the team converts on any of these earlier chances, especially in the second period, we likely see a much different outcome. That's just how a game goes. If we go up 3-2, perhaps we have more momentum and you don't see the errors at the end of that period occur. The swing of giving up the go ahead goal, giving away a late PP with a bad penalty by Tatar and then the dagger goal with .8 seconds left was really the nail in the coffin. It sucked the life out of the entire team and building.

Of course I don't believe Lindy is long for this job but I do feel there has to be a point where the players have to hold themselves accountable. I don't agree with everything Lindy does, especially with how he has deployed the lineup in these first two games, but I do think there are things the players need to start recognizing that have been detriments to their potential success in these first two games.

I hope to see the defensive lineup altered next game, and would like to see Bahl get a shot as well. I like that Smith is being a vocal leader and recognizes his role, but he can do that as a scratch. He seems to be weighing Marino down so far.
1)The fire lindy chants pregame were, as I've said above, totally moronic. Now I'll quickly pivot and say they were fine in the 3rd period, but game 2 of the season, pregame, that to me is social media gang mentality spilling into real life.

2)I watched Smith's post game, and really liked his message and his demeanor. But I think his professionalism will allow Ruff to bench him for Bahl, and Smith will continue to bring that leadership. I actually think there is a lesson to the rest on the team(given we are rotating a fair amount of players in and out) in benching Smith and Smith showing that you keep on doing your job despite not being in the lineup every night.

Our system requires everything to be too perfect. When it’s clicking it works really well. When it doesn’t you get last night and the game before. Unfortunately the success rate is like 30%
On the Sev's and Tatar miscues, do we really lay that on the system? I don't think we do.
 
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Omar Little

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1)The fire lindy chants pregame were, as I've said above, totally moronic. Now I'll quickly pivot and say they were fine in the 3rd period, but game 2 of the season pregame, that to me is social media gang mentality spilling into real life.

2)I watched Smith's post game, and really liked his message and his demeanor. But I think his professionalism will allow Ruff to bench him for Bahl, and Smith will continue to bring that leadership. I actually think there is a lesson to the rest on the team(given we are rotating a fair amount of players in and out) in benching Smith and Smith showing that you keep on doing your job despite not being in the lineup every night.


On the Sev's and Tatar miscues, do we really lay that on the system? I don't think we do.

Tatar was Jacks miscue as well by initially making the soft flip pass reverse play.

The point is when stuff goes wrong the players as so spread out there is not really an ability to meaningfully recover.

Also rewatching Larkins goal, I’m not sure wtf Hischier was doing. He went and pressured the puck carrier, leaving the middle of the ice, when Sharangovich was already on the puck carrier.
 
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devilsblood

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I don’t think too many folks are saying it’s just the goalies exclusive of anything else. It’s like the old adage about firing one coach instead of twenty players. You can have four bad plays leading to a shot agsinst but if that goalie makes the save - which the better ones can do at times- it’s easier than fixing five bad defensive plays or an entirely flawed system. Blaming the lack of scoring when you are giving up five goals a game is also overly simplistic though. Saying if they could score six goals a game they could win is not something any NHL team will have success with. Everything is bad right now. They have to right the ship but if the team sees Ruff as a lame duck they just may not respond Or if they don’t buy into his system they won’t respond. It’s ugky right now.
There are without question some folks saying that.

Maybe they throw in a "ruff sucks" as an aside, but I find that contradictory.
 
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devilsblood

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Also note that while Detroit's goalie was good, Hamilton's goal was just as bad a goal as the first goal against.

So yeah, one of the goal's Vanacek allowed was a softie, but that was balanced out by a softie for. We lost because of the other goals, which were bad play in front of the goalie, not the goalie himself.
 

Bleedred

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We need to score more than 2 goals a game. It's hard to win when you only score two goals a game.

The goaltending is just beyond disgusting. Blackwood is almost completely irredeemable after his last 56 games. If he's gonna be successful I think any chance is that it happens on another team. At best he needs a change of scenery and that might even be a stretch. This is a marriage that's not worth saving. The sex stopped a long time ago.

Vanecek has to be WAY better than last night. I'm still trying to figure out how he loses his stick before goal 4 on that kind of a shot. That's just weak on his part.

The second goal was TERRIBLE. Just a BAD ANGLE, goes down too early, leaves too much short side open.

Goal 1 was also hideous. It wasn't even a good shot. It was from way too far out and it did not deflect.

He was going down way too much on like the first 4 goals. Looked way too small in the net. Is Rogalski striking again? Perhaps, but one game from our newest goalie acquisition is not enough to say that the goalie coach has infected him with his toxicity.

And the screen was way too questionable on goal 1. You can't just say ''Oh, yeah the goalie was screened'' on every f***ing shot where there's some semblance of a screen. The goalie has gotta do a better job.
 
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Bleedred

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Also note that while Detroit's goalie was good, Hamilton's goal was just as bad a goal as the first goal against.

So yeah, one of the goal's Vanacek allowed was a softie, but that was balanced out by a softie for. We lost because of the other goals, which were bad play in front of the goalie, not the goalie himself.
I would say more than one of the Vanecek goals was a softy or at the very least there were probably 3 goals that were stoppable at best and some were worse than that.

But yes, the Hamilton goal was not good on Nedeljkovic, as were neither of the goals Carter Hart allowed in the first game.
 
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devilsblood

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Tatar was Jacks miscue as well by initially making the soft flip pass reverse play.

The point is when stuff goes wrong the players as so spread out there is not really an ability to meaningfully recover.

Also rewatching Larkins goal, I’m not sure wtf Hischier was doing. He went and pressured the puck carrier, leaving the middle of the ice, when Sharangovich was already on the puck carrier.
I don't mind Nico pressuring the puck there, we had a d-man in the middle of the ice, and another down low. But he half assed the pressure, that to me is the issue there. Or maybe the anticipation of the pass to the point, as opposed to anticipating the pass to the middle of the ice. Obviously the latter is more dangerous.

The details, as they say.
 

ninetyeight

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Goalies are the reason Jack, Nico, Palat, Haula, Sharagovich, Tatar, Bastian, Boqvist, McLeod don't have a point this season.

I'm with you. If we would have effective offence to go with our abysmal defence and goaltending, the games would be at least watchable and entertaining. 4-5, 5-6 losses. But when they can only score 2 goals, you're not gonna win unless you have some franchise .950++sv% goaltender. The offense has looked euro league level so far, without the structure. Our "pure sniper" / "best shooter in the draft" Holtz had a wide open wrist shot and you couldn't shoot it any straighter into the goalie even if you tried. Our players have terrible accuracy and terrible offensive iq. Shoot when you should pass, pass when you should shoot. Sloppy shots from terrible angles. They make average goalies look like Vezina canditates, this is like watching 1990s/2000s Team Finland.

I hope they fire Ruff and I hope they get a better goalie someday, but honestly I don't expect it to matter if our players can't score.
 
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Blender

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Pretty sure they had a top 15 offense in the second half last season. I have a lot more faith that the forwards will start producing and a lot less on getting avg goaltending.
We had the 9th best goals scored at 5on5 last season in the league iirc. I am not concerned about our ability to score, I am still highly concerned that we'll be letting in 4-5 goals per game again.
 

Bleedred

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MAF was a guy I was interested in, but it sounds like he's been brutal to start the season too.
He's allowed one more goal than our goalies have combined for in 2 fewer periods played.

He did start last year looking pretty cooked too and rebounded to have an okay season.
 

JimEIV

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I don’t think too many folks are saying it’s just the goalies exclusive of anything else. It’s like the old adage about firing one coach instead of twenty players. You can have four bad plays leading to a shot agsinst but if that goalie makes the save - which the better ones can do at times- it’s easier than fixing five bad defensive plays or an entirely flawed system. Blaming the lack of scoring when you are giving up five goals a game is also overly simplistic though. Saying if they could score six goals a game they could win is not something any NHL team will have success with. Everything is bad right now. They have to right the ship but if the team sees Ruff as a lame duck they just may not respond Or if they don’t buy into his system they won’t respond. It’s ugky right now.
I think a lot of the more frequent posters here make believe that it just a goalie problem.

I think the overarching issue the denial that this rebuild simply hasn't worked and the years of failing have brought us very little.

You can't right a ship with holes in the hull. The ship isn't seaworthy
 
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JimEIV

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We had the 9th best goals scored at 5on5 last season in the league iirc. I am not concerned about our ability to score, I am still highly concerned that we'll be letting in 4-5 goals per game again.
Looking at just 5v5 when this is a PP happy league is either oblivious or deceitfulness

We were 19th in the league in Goals For last season...that sucks for a team wants to make believe that they are an offense first run and gun style team
 

Hockey Sports Fan

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Goalies are the reason Jack, Nico, Palat, Haula, Sharagovich, Tatar, Bastian, Boqvist, McLeod don't have a point this season.
I think this is ultimately the conclusion I'm coming to. Obviously the goaltending hasn't been great, but it's not like good teams don't have stretches where they give up 9 goals in two games.

A .920 goalie is one of the best in the league, but they don't stop 92% of shots every game. Sometimes they stop 85% and sometimes they stop 99%. You gotta be able to win games even you're giving up goals. LA gave up 6 goals last night and won. It's easy to point fingers at the goalies but if your high powered offense can't score more than 2 goals, that seems to me like the bigger problem.
 

Devils731

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I’d rather they use that energy wasted in reacting to the puck toward going hard at the puck holder
The amount of wasted energy the Devils
spend in the defensive zone for no benefit is crazy.

As an example, the wingers constantly skate hard between the slot, the point, and the halfboards to try and cover them all but end up covering none of them well and burn themselves out doing it.
 

My3Sons

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I think a lot of the more frequent posters here make believe that it just a goalie problem.

I think the overarching issue the dental that this rebuild simply hasn't worked and the years of failing have brought us very little.

You can't right a ship with holes in the hull. The ship isn't seaworthy
It’s sort of harsh to pick on hockey players for missing teeth let alone saying that their missing teeth are contributing to the bad play.
 
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