New GM Trades and Signings Part 2

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Klingberg is actually much better than Dumba at the moment. This guy will actually put up offense guaranteed
Depends on your criteria.

Klingberg is the better offensive player but he requires sheltered minutes. Klingberg doesn't kill penalties and shouldn't be out on the ice against the opposition's best in a defensive situation.

Dumba is a middle of the lineup guy. Minnesota gave up on him as an offensive defender several seasons ago as he underperformed in that role. He does kill penalties and gets sheltered far less. He plays more minutes than Klingberg because he's competent in a wider swath of defense duties. The truth is he's closer to Justin Holl than he is to being a 1st pairing stud, something it looked like he might develop into years ago. I believe he's unsigned not because several teams wouldn't like to have him. I believe he's unsigned because nobody thinks he's worth much over $3 M aav and he may still think he is worth twice that.
 
Interesting enough.. both Klingberg and Dumba were with Minnesota last year. Klingberg and Dumba had about the same usage in Zone Starts, Klingberg had the lower GA/60.

Dumba is somewhat useful on the PK, I will give him that, but we wouldn't want him anywhere near our team.
 
At this point, Nylander should be a good option to take over from Tavares. If we can't sign him to the deal we want, yes we should hope to find a future #2 C in such a deal.

Wasn't something said about Calgary's owner preventing them from doing deals with Treliving?
 
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While there’s no long-term security in those contracts for the players, the appeal is in what may lie ahead. Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg, in particular, each get one year to shine bright with the Leafs, a talented team in the centre of the hockey universe, in hopes of scoring a bigger, richer deal when the cap rises next summer.

Each has a chance to boost their value with the Leafs.

But why were the Leafs so intent on keeping things short?

A long-term deal for Bertuzzi in particular, who ranked third on The Athletic’s UFA rankings, wouldn’t have been the least bit surprising or controversial in the way that, say, Reaves’ agreement was.

What made the Leafs prize flexibility even with someone who may start next season as their No. 1 left winger?

Start with Auston Matthews, William Nylander, a cap that’s expected to climb to $87.5 million in the fall of 2024, and the flexibility to pivot, if need be, next summer.

The Leafs entered free agency not knowing what chunk of the salary cap Matthews and Nylander will be eating up in the 2024-25 season and beyond. As of this writing, they still don’t know.

As Treliving said, “We all know that we have some other business to take care of.”

The variability on the Matthews extension in particular is considerable.

If the Leafs prefer to meet in the middle on term with Matthews and his agent, Judd Moldaver, with a five-year deal, Matthews’ cap hit could be as high as $14.5 million. The cap hit would rise on a deal that’s longer than that and fall on something shorter.

Factor in the Nylander extension, which could bring a cap hit anywhere from $9-10 million annually, and what that means is millions available, or not, down the road for the Leafs.


You have to wonder if the Leafs, at an organizational level, were also reluctant to commit to anyone but low-cost players like Reaves ($1.3 million cap hit) and David Kämpf ($2.4 million) because of the stakes associated with next season. If things don’t end well again, do they want to have, say, Bertuzzi, on the books at $5.5 million for another three, four, or five seasons when major change may be in order?

The Leafs have given themselves the opportunity to pivot next summer.

In addition to Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg, TJ Brodie, Mark Giordano, Sam Lafferty and Matt Murray (if he were to stick around somehow, which seems unlikely) will play on expiring contracts next season. (Jake Muzzin’s contract will also expire.) That means upward of $20 million in cap space to reorient the roster next summer.

The Leafs had 10 pending UFAs this past season, but this feels even more intentional with the emphasis on short-term deals this summer — with even more money in play.
 
1- Bratt would be UFA in 1 year, so NJ paying for 7 UFA season in his new contract
2- i never said hishier and hugues was not good but sorry if i had to choose between hugues, hischier, hamilton zacha... the choice is pretty easy
But on top of one of the years being RFA instead of UFA, it's also a matter of different signing status, which makes things hard to compare as apples to apples. They're negotiating from a different place, with different options and leverage. And while I'd take our players on the PP over Hughes/Hischier/Hamilton, that's still not a bad or untalented group in the slightest, and I'd argue that Bratt gets more of a boost at 5v5, and Nylander brings more primary production.

And while a stacked PP can raise the proficiency of the overall PP, adding more and more equivalent players alongside somebody on the PP doesn't always translate to higher individual production for them to the extent people think it will, because there is a simultaneous deflationary effect as the player gets more limited touches. In fact, if you take a look at each of our players on our PP, the rate they produce on the PP didn't meaningfully change for any of them when going from split units/past teams with worse talent to the stacked 1st unit we have now. Nylander has demonstrated the ability to produce at high levels on a non-stacked PP, and it's not like he's a lesser PP player getting a boost from a superior PP player. He is a top producer on the PP himself.

In the end, we're left with Nylander being a UFA instead of an RFA, with a better points per game (0.98 > 0.86), better primary points per game (0.79 > 0.61), better points per 60 on the PP (6.34 > 5.28), and better primary point per 60 at both 5v5 (1.93 > 1.76) and on the PP (4.62 > 3.41), while Bratt has a pretty negligible lead in 5v5 points per 60 (2.44 > 2.36). I'd say Nylander is easily worth more. How much is debatable, but let's even say that hypothetically, Nylander gets an objectively worse contract than Bratt. Does that make Nylander overpaid? Is Bratt the standard, or after searching through lists, is Bratt just a guy that we've picked out because it's the best for arguing less for Nylander if we ignore or minimize some meaningful differences and gaps?

I'm not saying you're doing this, but there is a tendency for people in these discussions to drift away from evaluating "What is a fair contract?" or answering "Why is this contract the way it is?", and start into some game of finding the best contracts they can find by one chosen measure, and compare to our players to argue that they're overpaid. Which... I don't really know what that accomplishes other than making people miserable and hostile towards our stars.
 
Would you do Brodie and Nylander [extended] for Lindholm [extended] and Zadorov?

I'd prefer keeping Nylander, but Lindholm would be a good #2 option to take over from Tavares.
Honestly, if we are set on moving Nylander and Calgary is an option, I'd be looking as a basis:

Calgary:
Brodie
Nylander

Toronto:
Weegar
Lindholm

Maybe Conroy isn't as enthused about Weegar's long-term deal just signed when Treliving was there....

If you are moving Brodie, you need to get someone back who can play in the situations that Brodie was used in, and I don't think Zadorov is that. I see Z as a very good 3LHD. Weegar finally brings a true RHD to our 1RHD, and should mesh well with Reilly, along with an already signed long-term contract.

Not sure if that's an even trade or +'s are needed, but any movement away from Brodie needs to bring someone back who can do what Brodie has done for us.
 
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Honestly, if we are set on moving Nylander and Calgary is an option, I'd be looking as a basis:

Calgary:
Brodie
Nylander

Toronto:
Weegar
Lindholm

Maybe Conroy isn't as enthused about Weegar's long-term deal just signed when Treliving was there....

If you are moving Brodie, you need to get someone back who can play in the situations that Brodie was used in, and I don't think Zadorov is that. I see Z as a very good 3LHD. Weegar finally brings a true RHD to our 1RHD, and should mesh well with Reilly, along with an already signed long-term contract.

Not sure if that's an even trade or +'s are needed, but any movement away from Brodie needs to bring someone back who can do what Brodie has done for us.

It works, though a couple of notes. Weegar is a right handed guy, who has played more on the left side. This trade appears to favour the Leafs quite a bit IMO... not sure what we'd add... but if we couldn't come to terms with Willy, this would be the basis of a pretty good trade for us.

--------------------------------------------

Rangers really couldn't afford more now, and it's likely Miller will really get paid in two years.



""
 
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At this point, Nylander should be a good option to take over from Tavares. If we can't sign him to the deal we want, yes we should hope to find a future #2 C in such a deal.

Wasn't something said about Calgary's owner preventing them from doing deals with Treliving?
Nylander cant take over from tavares he is a defensive nightmare
There is a reason you dont see willy on the ice in the last few minutes when leading by a goal.
 
Nylander cant take over from tavares he is a defensive nightmare
There is a reason you dont see willy on the ice in the last few minutes when leading by a goal.

For certain Nylander hasn't been the strongest defensive player, but he can play C well offensively, and he's decent at faceoffs. I think with coaching, and some commitment it's an area that he can improve upon to the point of being a plus. We've seen that from Matthews and Marner in the past, growth defensively, no reason to see why it couldn't be worked on with Nylander. You pay a guy $9 mil, he should have the flexibility and ability to work on his game, for the better of the team.
 
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I don’t see Miller being worth much more than what he got personally.


While there’s no long-term security in those contracts for the players, the appeal is in what may lie ahead. Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg, in particular, each get one year to shine bright with the Leafs, a talented team in the centre of the hockey universe, in hopes of scoring a bigger, richer deal when the cap rises next summer.

Each has a chance to boost their value with the Leafs.

But why were the Leafs so intent on keeping things short?

A long-term deal for Bertuzzi in particular, who ranked third on The Athletic’s UFA rankings, wouldn’t have been the least bit surprising or controversial in the way that, say, Reaves’ agreement was.

What made the Leafs prize flexibility even with someone who may start next season as their No. 1 left winger?

Start with Auston Matthews, William Nylander, a cap that’s expected to climb to $87.5 million in the fall of 2024, and the flexibility to pivot, if need be, next summer.

The Leafs entered free agency not knowing what chunk of the salary cap Matthews and Nylander will be eating up in the 2024-25 season and beyond. As of this writing, they still don’t know.

As Treliving said, “We all know that we have some other business to take care of.”

The variability on the Matthews extension in particular is considerable.

If the Leafs prefer to meet in the middle on term with Matthews and his agent, Judd Moldaver, with a five-year deal, Matthews’ cap hit could be as high as $14.5 million. The cap hit would rise on a deal that’s longer than that and fall on something shorter.

Factor in the Nylander extension, which could bring a cap hit anywhere from $9-10 million annually, and what that means is millions available, or not, down the road for the Leafs.


You have to wonder if the Leafs, at an organizational level, were also reluctant to commit to anyone but low-cost players like Reaves ($1.3 million cap hit) and David Kämpf ($2.4 million) because of the stakes associated with next season. If things don’t end well again, do they want to have, say, Bertuzzi, on the books at $5.5 million for another three, four, or five seasons when major change may be in order?

The Leafs have given themselves the opportunity to pivot next summer.

In addition to Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg, TJ Brodie, Mark Giordano, Sam Lafferty and Matt Murray (if he were to stick around somehow, which seems unlikely) will play on expiring contracts next season. (Jake Muzzin’s contract will also expire.) That means upward of $20 million in cap space to reorient the roster next summer.

The Leafs had 10 pending UFAs this past season, but this feels even more intentional with the emphasis on short-term deals this summer — with even more money in play.

Typical Athletic garbage
 
For certain Nylander hasn't been the strongest defensive player, but he can play C well offensively, and he's decent at faceoffs. I think with coaching, and some commitment it's an area that he can improve upon to the point of being a plus. We've seen that from Matthews and Marner in the past, growth defensively, no reason to see why it couldn't be worked on with Nylander. You pay a guy $9 mil, he should have the flexibility and ability to work on his game, for the better of the team.
Willy is not a center. If any of them cared about he team we wouldn’t be in this cap hell
Matthews has achieved nothing to deserve being the highest paid player in the league
Should have been told this is what you are getting
Why these guys think that 120 million in lifetime earnings isnt enough they need 150.
Its a joke of a franchise to let these guys dictate the future of the team.
 
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Willy is not a center. If any of them cared about he team we wouldn’t be in this cap hell
Matthews has achieved nothing to deserve being the highest paid player in the league
Should have been told this is what you are getting
Why these guys think that 120 million in lifetime earnings isnt enough they need 150.
Its a joke of a franchise to let these guys dictate the future of the team.
The worst part about it is I think Matthews and Marner are like 2 of the top players in the league with endorsements. So not only do we make them pretty much the top paid players in the league but they also have the most endorsements which most likely equals to a lot of money. Especially Matthews with that Bet99 endorsement or whatever sportsbook endorsement he does because those gambling companies pay any kind of influencer a lot of money. Nylander I don't think has that many so you'd think those 2 would take less so Nylander can take a bit more on his contract because those 2 are gonna be making a lot more overall regardless.
 
This whole "more moves are coming on defence" thing that was thrown out there in early July is really throwing me for a loop - Why hasn't it been done by now or at least hinted at past that?
 
I know it's Eklund but throwing these out here for fun...

Today:
"Leafs Circle Back on Karlsson…If they can trade Nylander+Brodie.
Hearing a ton of talk this morning that Toronto continues to work on a deal involving NYLANDER and or possibly Brodie (with sal retention) to the Isles and Hawks respectively…If they can pull that off the Hawks would also eat some salary and help get Erik Karlsson to Toronto..
Source: Eklund"

and this one in the past few hours:

"Nylander to Isles could include Pageau and Wahlstrom (e3)
This from a source close to the situation…The Isles have liked Nylander for some time now and the Leafs would like to add Pageau to kill penalties and be more of a shutdown force.
Source: Eklund"

Don't shoot the messenger! (Ok maybe Ek just not me)
 
I know it's Eklund but throwing these out here for fun...

Today:
"Leafs Circle Back on Karlsson…If they can trade Nylander+Brodie.
Hearing a ton of talk this morning that Toronto continues to work on a deal involving NYLANDER and or possibly Brodie (with sal retention) to the Isles and Hawks respectively…If they can pull that off the Hawks would also eat some salary and help get Erik Karlsson to Toronto..
Source: Eklund"

and this one in the past few hours:

"Nylander to Isles could include Pageau and Wahlstrom (e3)
This from a source close to the situation…The Isles have liked Nylander for some time now and the Leafs would like to add Pageau to kill penalties and be more of a shutdown force.
Source: Eklund"

Don't shoot the messenger! (Ok maybe Ek just not me)
Pfft. Not even an e4. Moving on.
 
If Nylander is traded, I wouldn't expect that a guy like Brodie be involved too. That would be asking the other team to deal with 12 mil in new capspace. Also how many teams want 2 expiring contracts?

Re Dumba - I'd be interested in him in a reclamation project type capacity, but he shouldn't be a main part of a D core at this stage of his career. Low hockey IQ and not great defensively.....
 
Pageau is a cap dump at this pt . Wahlstrom isn’t nearly enough to entice .
Yeah I had to look, seems he's been around for ever and he has been, definitely on the back nine of his career. Monumentally crappy deal for the Leafs unless there's alotta' something else from somewhere. Even in a UFA year, a 40 goal guy under 7 million with lots of tread left better return a boatload.
 
Would you do Brodie and Nylander [extended] for Lindholm [extended] and Zadorov?

I'd prefer keeping Nylander, but Lindholm would be a good #2 option to take over from Tavares.

Lindholm on an extension I think will probably come in fairly close to what Nylander ends up getting he's also older and a lesser player.

I don't necessarily mind that type of deal as a last resort if Nylander outright refuses to compromise on a deal. But I'm not sure how better the team gets
 
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