New GM Trades and Signings Part 2

[MCR74]

Why? Hes been the most outspoken about being here.

I don’t understand all the hate he gets. The leafs gave Matthews all the bonuses, and didn’t give Marner any. The leafs allowed Babcock to cause issues between Marner and some of the vets and it apparently wasn’t handled well. So you had to know he was going to stick it to them.

The organization is to blame for a lot of the issues we are seeing from the 3. All 3 should have been treated equally. I think Chicago did it best. When Kane and Toews were about to expire they got matching extensions. One wasn’t more important than the other. Now they are expecting Nylander to take less when Marner and Matthews didn’t before.

When they were young the conversation should have been had that all 3 would get the same treatment and get similar deals to avoid all of this.

Who knows? The team' culture is f***ed up. l'm getting shades of the Muskoka 5.

 

[Menzinger]

I don’t think Paul is very involved in the decision making anymore. Marner isn’t a 20 year old kid anymore. He’s got his own family now so he can make his own decisions.

Regardless of his family, he still has a shark of an agent in Ferris.

I won't expect any team friendly deals from him next offseason

 

[francis246]

Who knows? The team' culture is f***ed up. l'm getting shades of the Muskoka 5.

From the top down IMO. Starts with Shanny, I know ppl want to blame Dubas. But it’s on Shanny to ensure the culture is established.

 

[MCR74]

From the top down IMO. Starts with Shanny, I know ppl want to blame Dubas. But it’s on Shanny to ensure the culture is established.

True, but the last few years haven't left me with a positive outlook. Hopefully it changes soon.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just the fact No body of those player are 8M

Well yeah, of course not. I don't know why you'd expect they would.
Most of these players signed from 1-7 years ago. They got their contracts under lower caps based on what they did prior to signing, but you're taking stats from after they signed. Literally all of these players are also worse on the PP. Some also make pretty close to 8m, and some were signed as RFAs. Some are the secondary or tertiary players of their line, playing with generational or near-generational tier players.

And just to tell me with kind of package will bring you the best team. nylander and a mccabe at full price or a packkage of debrincat/ fiala, bratt or whatever and hanifin/pesce for the same exact salary?

There are combinations of players that exist in the NHL that are on deals that would currently provide better value and impact than Nylander, but not only are the combinations you named more money than Nylander by quite a bit (so not "the exact same salary"), but they'll be even more when you re-sign them. You also don't have those players. People like to dream up fantastical scenarios about the value of cap space, based on players that have become cap efficient with time and development, but when you open up 9.25m, what fills that space is often a lot closer to the likes of your cap inefficient middle-tier players like a Compher and Gostisbehere.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

If we can't hit a homerun on a Nylander trade, then can Toronto use Nylander to recoup all the draft picks that were lost during the Dubas era? Can't Tre/Shanny admit that our prospect pool is...shallow.

 

[al secord]

If we can't hit a homerun on a Nylander trade, then can Toronto use Nylander to recoup all the draft picks that were lost during the Dubas era? Can't Tre/Shanny admit that our prospect pool is...shallow.

I think they have a suggestion box in the lobby.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Paul hasn't been involved for a long time now.
It's amazing how so many made up things about Marner has become fact.
People need to stop being so gullible and believing every thing the media dreams up.

He hasn't been involved recently because there's no contract to get involved in. Paul Marner was ripping into mitch when he was 11 years old. I bet mitch gets a call or text after every game asking him how he thought he played. Overbearing parents don't stop just because their children are adults.

 

[TMLAM34]

One way to transform the blueline,

To Toronto: Connor Murphy
To Chicago: Matt Murray + 1st Round Draft Pick

To Toronto: Nikita Zadorov
To Calgary: TJ Brodie

Rielly - Murphy
McCabe - Liljegren
Zadorov - Klingberg

 

[Menzinger]

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think Chicago did it best. When Kane and Toews were about to expire they got matching extensions. One wasn’t more important than the other. Now they are expecting Nylander to take less when Marner and Matthews didn’t before. When they were young the conversation should have been had that all 3 would get the same treatment and get similar deals to avoid all of this.

Kane and Toews were similar caliber players when they signed. Matthews and Marner were in a whole other universe from Nylander.

 

[Anthrax442]

Who knows? The team' culture is f***ed up. l'm getting shades of the Muskoka 5.

There will always be some variation of Muskoka 5 here.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That contract was so insane. He would still have 4 years left on his contract, and he's currently 40 years old and hasn't played in years. Mind-boggling.

 

[francis246]

Kane and Toews were similar caliber players when they signed. Matthews and Marner were in a whole other universe from Nylander.

agreed, which is why I'm saying I understand the vim Marner had for management coming out of the ELC's. They kind of tried to make it seem like he was 2/3 tiers under Matthews his entire ELC. They should have tried better to treat them both the same to avoid the ego play.

 

[LeafChief]

Seravalli says Leafs and Samsonov not that far apart and that it's likely he filed for arb as an agreement with the Leafs for the second buyout window to open.

 

[thusk]

Well yeah, of course not. I don't know why you'd expect they would.
Most of these players signed from 1-7 years ago. They got their contracts under lower caps based on what they did prior to signing, but you're taking stats from after they signed. Literally all of these players are also worse on the PP. Some also make pretty close to 8m, and some were signed as RFAs. Some are the secondary or tertiary players of their line, playing with generational or near-generational tier players.

There are combinations of players that exist in the NHL that are on deals that would currently provide better value and impact than Nylander, but not only are the combinations you named more money than Nylander by quite a bit (so not "the exact same salary"), but they'll be even more when you re-sign them. You also don't have those players. People like to dream up fantastical scenarios about the value of cap space, based on players that have become cap efficient with time and development, but when you open up 9.25m, what fills that space is often a lot closer to the likes of your cap inefficient middle-tier players like a Compher and Gostisbehere.

Nylander stats last 3 214 game played
5v5 : 51goal-64 assist
1,04 goal/ 60
2,36 pts/60 (4 th in his team, the best is 3,09)
26 goal 44 assist
Ppg/60 2,36
Ppp 6,34 pts/60
(Worst pp production amount leafs core 4)

Player X last 3 204 game played
44 goal-67 assist
0,97 goal/60
2,44 pts/60 ( best of his team)
Pp : 13 goal 35 assist
Ppg/60 1,43
Ppp/60 5,28 ( second best amount foward in his team, best at 5,64)
Pp time 2:40/ game

Youre not agree its pretty similar number? yes nylander pp number are higher but he was playing with 4 high end offensive talent ( 3 ppg foward and one of best offensive dman in the league) and its not the case with player X. So can can really say hes got better stats because hes really a better player or because he just played with better player to help him to produce?

 

[SprDaVE]

Seravalli says Leafs and Samsonov not that far apart and that it's likely he filed for arb as an agreement with the Leafs for the second buyout window to open.

Not surprised. He's bound to be the #1 goaltender so he'll likely settle on a good fair deal to keep being the #1. I don't see much of an issue unless they go long-term.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Seravalli says Leafs and Samsonov not that far apart and that it's likely he filed for arb as an agreement with the Leafs for the second buyout window to open

Leafs and Samsonov not being far apart would be good. The second buyout window being relevant would not.

 

[SprDaVE]

Leafs and Samsonov not being far apart would be good. The second buyout window being relevant would not.

Doesnt sound like they have many options to dump Murray. So pushing the headache to next year might be the only thing they can do, thus the 2nd buyout window is definitely good.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nylander stats last 3 214 game played
5v5 : 51goal-64 assist
1,04 goal/ 60
2,36 pts/60 (4 th in his team, the best is 3,09)
26 goal 44 assist
Ppg/60 2,36
Ppp 6,34 pts/60
(Worst pp production amount leafs core 4)

Player X last 3 204 game played
44 goal-67 assist
0,97 goal/60
2,44 pts/60 ( best of his team)
Pp : 13 goal 35 assist
Ppg/60 1,43
Ppp/60 5,28 ( second best amount foward in his team, best at 5,64)
Pp time 2:40/ game

Youre not agree its pretty similar number? yes nylander pp number are higher but he was playing with 4 high end offensive talent ( 3 ppg foward and one of best offensive dman in the league) and its not the case with player X. So can can really say hes got better stats because hes really a better player or because he just played with better player to help him to produce?

I'm not really sure why you're hiding the players.
You're clearly talking about Bratt. For one thing, Bratt was an RFA, not a UFA. And as you can see, Nylander is better on the PP.
As for linemates, I don't think Bratt has much to complain about, given his two most common linemates over that time are Hughes and Hischier, and he's on a pretty talent-filled PP.

 

[aingefan]

If we can’t agree to an extension with Nylander, I wouldn’t mind something like this.

To Toronto: Shane Wright + Brandon Tanev (50% retained) + 1st Round Draft Pick
To Seattle: William Nylander

Ideally Wright can develop into a good second line center behind Matthews and allow Tavares to move to the wing. Tanev provides some much needed physicality in the bottom six and we either use the 1st in another deal or keep it. Lines with the new players above (Tavares taking faceoffs still in key situations):

Tavares - Wright - Marner
Tanev - Kampf - Reaves

Then flip one of our 1st round draft picks for help on the blueline.

To Toronto: Connor Murphy
To Chicago: Matt Murray + 1st Round Draft Pick

Rielly - Murphy

I’m down with Wright for sure.
That’s three ELC years for a RHC kid with lots upside. He can play W/C and gradually supplant JT.
I don’t even know why he’d be available tho.

 

[The Podium]

Leafs and Samsonov not being far apart would be good. The second buyout window being relevant would not.

Could just be insurance for trade negotiations. Aren’t desperate to trade him by having the buyout window.

 

[thusk]

I'm not really sure why you're hiding the players.
You're clearly talking about Bratt. For one thing, Bratt was an RFA, not a UFA. And as you can see, Nylander is better on the PP.
As for linemates, I don't think Bratt has much to complain about, given his two most common linemates over that time are Hughes and Hischier, and he's on a pretty talent-filled PP.

1- Bratt would be UFA in 1 year, so NJ paying for 7 UFA season in his new contract

2- i never said hishier and hugues was not good but sorry if i had to choose between hugues, hischier, hamilton zacha... the choice is pretty easy


Probably the best actual goal scorer in NHL in Matthews
The secons best playmaker player in Marner
- 1 of 10 best pp specialist last 3 in jt
1 of top offensive d in rially

Did he producing more? Yes but if you withdrawing everyone around him, did he still producing at the same rate... i dont think thats what i say

And it is really justifying being pay over 1,5-2M ?

Like i said at 8M its good, little bit more

8,5 M still ok

At 9M already over 1M

At 10M : 2 M of difference, its just totally trash

 

[stickty111]

Mitch's dad has been a tough person to deal with since Marner was a kid. Why would he change now all of a sudden? Marner was a strong enough kid to make his own decisions the last time, so he isn't going to leave Mitch alone with this stuff now.
This should be expected to be a tough negotiation with Marner's camp using questionable means to get what they want. Until Marner proves otherwise, his history suggests he won't make it easy on the team.

 

[Thornbury]

Leafs and Samsonov not being far apart would be good. The second buyout window being relevant would not.

Seravalli says Leafs and Samsonov not that far apart and that it's likely he filed for arb as an agreement with the Leafs for the second buyout window to open.

Matt Murray won't be too happy about that.