New GM Trades and Signings Part 2

[LeafSteel]

Crazy how newly acquired players on other teams just jump at the chance of extending with their new team, usually at very fair value but the players here that have been playing on a team that hasn't missed the playoffs since they've been around won't commit unless they are given either short term deals so that they can earn even more money or are given way above market value.... or both.

This is what is souring me on all 3 of them.

Add to it the utter failure to lead and do anything of substance in the playoffs and they all come across very unfavorably and quite frankly, unlikeable.

It's the crest on the front, not the name on the back, and it isn't about putting money in their bank accounts at the expense of the Team's success.

The whole thing has grown old, really, and it's making the previously unthinkable thought of moving on from any/all of them, a topic of discussion, and it's all their faults, along with Dubas getting bent over the 1st time around.

 

[WTFMAN99]

This is what is souring me on all 3 of them.

Add to it the utter failure to lead and do anything of substance in the playoffs and they all come across very unfavorably and quite frankly, unlikeable.

It's the crest on the front, not the name on the back, and it isn't about putting money in their bank accounts at the expense of the Team's success.

The whole thing has grown old, really, and it's making the previously unthinkable thought of moving on from any/all of them, a topic of discussion, and it's all their faults, along with Dubas getting bent over the 1st time around.

Echoing this.

Oh no, please don't leave and take all that playoff success we've had with you

Seriously, most years, we've enjoyed a 6-7 game extension of the regular season which is a marginal improvement over when we were absolute trash for a decade.

 

[ACC1224]

This is what is souring me on all 3 of them.

Add to it the utter failure to lead and do anything of substance in the playoffs and they all come across very unfavorably and quite frankly, unlikeable.

It's the crest on the front, not the name on the back, and it isn't about putting money in their bank accounts at the expense of the Team's success.

The whole thing has grown old, really, and it's making the previously unthinkable thought of moving on from any/all of them, a topic of discussion, and it's all their faults, along with Dubas getting bent over the 1st time around.

Only 2 of them can currently be signed.

 

[keonsbitterness]

The whole thing has grown old, really, and it's making the previously unthinkable thought of moving on from any/all of them, a topic of discussion, and it's all their faults, along with Dubas getting bent over the 1st time around.

The time to move on was 2-3 years ago when they all had term left on their deals and NMC/NTC wasn't an issue. Now the Leafs have little choice but to re-sign them.

 

[Dreakmur]

Patrick Kane wasn’t elite when Cat played with him?

He was, but it still doesn’t compare to playing with Matthews, Marner, and Tavares.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Keefe absolutely does butcher matchups. That’s one of the various reasons he should have been fired, and still should be fired.

He doesn't, but also completely irrelevant.

It is about coaches doing a good job, because utilizing advantageous match-ups is part of that.

It is not about coaches doing a good job or not. There is more than one approach to matchups, and coaching approach only impacts one of the many mentioned factors that make quality of competition differences between players like that negligible in a sample like this. There's nothing to indicate any kind of significant difference in quality of competition, or resulting impact on their production.

Nylander plays with better players than DeBrincat.

Nylander has better absolute quality of linemates on the PP, but how that's distributed creates a simultaneous deflationary effect on his production along with the inflationary effect, and Nylander is still a top producer among his linemates on the PP. When we also consider how Debrincat was pulled along by Kane at 5v5, attempts to dismiss the gap that exists between Nylander and Debrincat due to linemate quality considerations aren't justifiable. In fact, Debrincat last year had the exact opposite effects of what you're claiming as his situation shifted.

 

[LeafSteel]

Only 2 of them can currently be signed.

Fair enough, but the precedent is already enough that we can anticipate the same approach from the Marner camp.

The only thing having me hopeful that it goes differently is that it's now his wife calling the shots and not his agent and Paul Marner.

Still hoping all 3 smarten up and recognize they have a unique opportunity to make more than their fair-share of money, be idolized and marketed beyond anything they could have anywhere else, and be part of a highly competitive and top tier team for years to come.

They do need to recognize that they have the single-most ability to impact and influence this teams success: first by taking contracts that make sense for EVERYONE and allows us to ice the most competitive and talented team and second by them showing up and being elite players in the playoffs, and not just the regular season.

Thus far, they haven't done either, and both those things need to change, either here in Toronto, or them somewhere else.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

This is what is souring me on all 3 of them.

Add to it the utter failure to lead and do anything of substance in the playoffs and they all come across very unfavorably and quite frankly, unlikeable.

It's the crest on the front, not the name on the back, and it isn't about putting money in their bank accounts at the expense of the Team's success.

The whole thing has grown old, really, and it's making the previously unthinkable thought of moving on from any/all of them, a topic of discussion, and it's all their faults, along with Dubas getting bent over the 1st time around.

The Leafs have cultivated an environment where these guys are fully protected. Not just from external criticism but internal criticism too. Perhaps, It's hard to blame the players because this is an NHL version of nature vs nurture.

At such a young age, they were given whatever they wanted. Big money, signing bonuses, endorsements, fame, top facilities, NTCs, and who knows what else behind the scenes.

In return, Matthews pulled his pants down at a guard and doesn't tell the team about it. When Dubas/Shanny find out, they do nothing. Later, Keefe slightly criticizes them for terrible on-ice performance and ends up apologizing the next day as if he ran over their dog. All of this is happening while the core is being told they will be kept together regardless of how they do in the playoffs.

The most unfortunate out of this is Marner. He grew up in the GTA and somehow is the most selfish out of all of them.

Somewhere along the lines, Toronto's management forgot they were building a hockey team and not collecting trading cards to show off to their school friends.

Toronto has completely forgotten team sports (especially hockey) are about valuing the team. You can't win without that.

 

[francis246]

Fair enough, but the precedent is already enough that we can anticipate the same approach from the Marner camp.

The only thing having me hopeful that it goes differently is that it's now his wife calling the shots and not his agent and Paul Marner.

Still hoping all 3 smarten up and recognize they have a unique opportunity to make more than their fair-share of money, be idolized and marketed beyond anything they could have anywhere else, and be part of a highly competitive and top tier team for years to come.

They do need to recognize that they have the single-most ability to impact and influence this teams success: first by taking contracts that make sense for EVERYONE and allows us to ice the most competitive and talented team and second by them showing up and being elite players in the playoffs, and not just the post-season.

Thus far, they haven't done either, and both those things need to change, either here in Toronto, or them somewhere else.

I think out of the three Marner will take the most fair deal. Doubt he’s going to want a repeat of what happened last time, he legitimately will do anything to stay a Leaf. Marner is likely to get paid for sure but he took the longest term out of the 3 last time, I think he’ll likely do it again and take a fair deal knowing he’ll get a bit of a pay bump.

 

[VanW27]

I think out of the three Marner will take the most fair deal. Doubt he’s going to want a repeat of what happened last time, he legitimately will do anything to stay a Leaf. Marner is likely to get paid for sure but he took the longest term out of the 3 last time, I think he’ll likely do it again and take a fair deal knowing he’ll get a bit of a pay bump.

The good thing for the Leafs is we know Mitch believes in negotiating to include what you "should" have made on your last deal, so by the time his deal is up he'll owe the Leafs 10-12 million..

 

[Burnie97]

Arbitration date:
July 21
Ilya Samsonov (Toronto Maple Leafs).

Just noticed that now in the other thread. That's good. Glad it's a bit earlier. It should get the ball rolling on some decisions they'll need to make.

Either a Murray trade in the next week and a half or he's bought out not long after the hearing.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think out of the three Marner will take the most fair deal. Doubt he’s going to want a repeat of what happened last time, he legitimately will do anything to stay a Leaf. Marner is likely to get paid for sure but he took the longest term out of the 3 last time, I think he’ll likely do it again and take a fair deal knowing he’ll get a bit of a pay bump.

I fully expect him to pull the same thing he did last time around. Anybody expecting him to make it easy on the Leafs is out to lunch.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

I fully expect him to pull the same thing he did last time around. Anybody expecting him to make it easy on the Leafs is out to lunch.

Well he might be more of a man now and not let daddy marner make the decisions. But who knows

 

[MCR74]

I think out of the three Marner will take the most fair deal. Doubt he’s going to want a repeat of what happened last time, he legitimately will do anything to stay a Leaf. Marner is likely to get paid for sure but he took the longest term out of the 3 last time, I think he’ll likely do it again and take a fair deal knowing he’ll get a bit of a pay bump.

Wishful thinking. Maybe if Paul stayed out of his way, Marner might cut us some semblence of a break.

If all three sign up short term, hopefully it's the last time.

 

[ACC1224]

Well he might be more of a man now and not let daddy marner make the decisions. But who knows

Paul hasn't been involved for a long time now.
It's amazing how so many made up things about Marner has become fact.
People need to stop being so gullible and believing every thing the media dreams up.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Oh God, I wanna vomit every time I see a comment like this. Okay go work as an insider, scout or a GM then. There’s a reason why those people are in those jobs and you’re at home Posting on a hockey forum.



Domi isn’t playing Center to start the year they said

FYI most are in those jobs because of who they know not based on much credentials at their job or even necessarily success. Before you try to correct me, I have immediate family members with multiple Cup rings that have been in those circles for multiple decades. Now that doesn’t mean Joe blow knows more but don’t pretend those jobs are given on much if any merit.

 

[thusk]

And what relevance do they have to anything, exactly?

Just the fact No body of those player are 8M

And just to tell me with kind of package will bring you the best team. nylander and a mccabe at full price or a packkage of debrincat/ fiala, bratt or whatever and hanifin/pesce for the same exact salary?

With sich player you get the best team at same salary? Nylander or lindholm/aho? No way nylander deserve the same kind of salary than aho and lindholm

At 8 M nylander its good, at 8,5M its ok... at 9M already too much and at 10M+ he will become the new john tavares when jt contract will be over...

The fact leafs made a mistake with tavares doesn't mean they have to repeat it with nylander

 

[myleafs]

Well he might be more of a man now and not let daddy marner make the decisions. But who knows

I think they just let their agents take care of business and just wipe their hands of any accountability. Any questions will be replied with "I let my agent take care of that stuff"

 

[francis246]

I fully expect him to pull the same thing he did last time around. Anybody expecting him to make it easy on the Leafs is out to lunch.

I completely disagree, I think Marner’s extension will be the easiest of the three should they choose to extend him.

 

[Avilaj07]

One player I would love to go after if he's cleared of any wrong doing is Alex Formenton. He would be such a great addition to our top 9.

 

[francis246]

FYI most are in those jobs because of who they know not based on much credentials at their job or even necessarily success. Before you try to correct me, I have immediate family members with multiple Cup rings that have been in those circles for multiple decades. Now that doesn’t mean Joe blow knows more but don’t pretend those jobs are given on much if any merit.

Ive been pretty open on here about being a former pro athlete (not hockey) and now coaching in college/university. I agree with you getting a job in pro sports is easier said than done. But not impossible, if you apply yourself and work hard it can be achieved. I have a sibling who works in the Blue Jays organization. No prior baseball experience, no one helping them get an interview, just hard work and grinding.

 

[francis246]

Wishful thinking. Maybe if Paul stayed out of his way, Marner might cut us some semblence of a break.

If all three sign up short term, hopefully it's the last time.

I don’t think Paul is very involved in the decision making anymore. Marner isn’t a 20 year old kid anymore. He’s got his own family now so he can make his own decisions.

 

[MCR74]

I don’t think Paul is very involved in the decision making anymore. Marner isn’t a 20 year old kid anymore. He’s got his own family now so he can make his own decisions.

Let's hope so. Marner doesn't strike me as one who'll take a reasonable deal.

 

[kb]

Ive been pretty open on here about being a former pro athlete (not hockey) and now coaching in college/university. I agree with you getting a job in pro sports is easier said than done. But not impossible, if you apply yourself and work hard it can be achieved. I have a sibling who works in the Blue Jays organization. No prior baseball experience, no one helping them get an interview, just hard work and grinding.

How'd you do in the last hot dog eating contest?

I kid, I kid, I didn't know that about you.......cool beans!

 

[francis246]

Let's hope so. Marner doesn't strike me as one who'll take a reasonable deal.

Why? Hes been the most outspoken about being here.

I don’t understand all the hate he gets. The leafs gave Matthews all the bonuses, and didn’t give Marner any. The leafs allowed Babcock to cause issues between Marner and some of the vets and it apparently wasn’t handled well. So you had to know he was going to stick it to them.

The organization is to blame for a lot of the issues we are seeing from the 3. All 3 should have been treated equally. I think Chicago did it best. When Kane and Toews were about to expire they got matching extensions. One wasn’t more important than the other. Now they are expecting Nylander to take less when Marner and Matthews didn’t before.

When they were young the conversation should have been had that all 3 would get the same treatment and get similar deals to avoid all of this.