New GM Trades and Signings Part 2

[andora]

All situations 1000+ minutes played

View attachment 727166

Pesce doesn't turn the puck over much.

Yeah he is getting underappreciated a bit here but their style helps

Get the f***en puck out any way you can makesnit a bit easier on the dman

 

[weems]

Yeah he is getting underappreciated a bit here but their style helps

Get the f***en puck out any way you can makesnit a bit easier on the dman

Yep the team he plays on helps considering they always have the puck and many of those other listed players are offensive defensemen but it's good to see him rank very high in overall takeaways while being good at managing the puck well.

Not sure how I feel about a Nylander for Pesce basis and we should definitely be getting a decent + but he would certainly improve our blueline alot and make a good defensive partner for Rielly.

 

[horner]

I think Murray will be bought out Treliving mentioned that we have second buyout window for a reason.
He will retain 1 mil and try to trade him and I don't think he will give up any picks or high end prospect.
Jamcrock will be traded he dosnt offer much for the playoffs and only scores when he is on the top line. With the players they signed plus knies he will be playing on the 3rd line.

Brodie I think he is exploring the trade market. If this happens he will trade for a dman around 4 mill .

Dumda hasn't hasn't been signed yet

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sure, it's not "taking less", I guess I would argue players very rarely "take less" outside the occasional vet at the end of their career.

That is true. Players very rarely "take less", at least by a significant amount. When fans think players "take less" by a significant amount, it's often just them misunderstanding how contract valuations work in the NHL. But that is what was being claimed - that players in Carolina "took less", so Nylander would too. They didn't.

What does happen is teams like the Canes set a valuation on the player and if the player doesn't like it they can either sit or be traded - regardless of what they might be able to justify in their contract demands.

That's pretty much what every team does. Carolina isn't special.

The overall point being, I'd be shocked if the Canes valued Nylander at 10 per, so proposals with him signing an extension and bringing back Necas + seem extremely unrealistic to me.

I agree that I don't think Carolina will want to trade Necas, but Carolina would value Nylander, and I don't see any reason that they wouldn't pay what he ends up making (which is probably less than 10 anyway). But we shouldn't be trading Nylander in the first place.

 

[ToneDog]

That is true. Players very rarely "take less", at least by a significant amount. When fans think players "take less" by a significant amount, it's often just them misunderstanding how contract valuations work in the NHL. But that is what was being claimed - that players in Carolina "took less", so Nylander would too. They didn't.

That's pretty much what every team does. Carolina isn't special.

I agree that I don't think Carolina will want to trade Necas, but Carolina would value Nylander, and I don't see any reason that they wouldn't pay what he ends up making (which is probably less than 10 anyway). But we shouldn't be trading Nylander in the first place.

Unless he softens on his $10m+ ask, you absolutely should be trading him. He pretty much holds all the cards now, as do Matthews and Marner.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Unless he softens on his $10m+ ask, you absolutely should be trading him.

Even if the speculated numbers were true, I don't know anybody that starts a negotiation at a number they're unwilling to move off of at all. In an absolute worst case scenario where he's impossible to re-sign, then explore trades, but even keeping Nylander as an own rental would be better than some of the proposals in here.

 

[horner]

Trade
Jamcrock

Sign
Zach Parise 1.5 mil his scoring has dropped of but stil plays as hard as ever

Ryan Hartman ufa 1.7 mil he would be a great trade target

 

[ToneDog]

Even if the speculated numbers were true, I don't know anybody that starts a negotiation at a number they're unwilling to move off of at all.
In an absolute worst case scenario, if you can get a good return maybe, but even keeping Nylander as an own rental would be better than some of the proposals in here.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I don't see either side moving off their number soon. Willie as an own rental is a non-starter for me. Anything less than a round 3 exit and Willie walking for nothing would be an epic failure.

 

[Leafs1991]

Trade
Jamcrock

Sign
Zach Parise 1.5 mil his scoring has dropped of but stil plays as hard as ever

Ryan Hartman ufa 1.7 mil he would be a great trade target

Do you truly think Parise is better than Jarnkrok right now?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Willie as an own rental is a non-starter for me. Anything less than a round 3 exit and Willie walking for nothing would be an epic failure.

Obviously, we'd rather re-sign Nylander and keep the asset long-term, or trade him for other assets that can help long-term. But Nylander at under 7m next year in a contending year has value, and that alone isn't something that should be given up for some of the garbage offers being proposed around here. You just end up hurting your team both long-term and short-term. Hopefully, if it does come to a trade, our management team would get some actual value back.

 

[BM14]

You just have to watch the game
-When rielly on pp, he created thing
-When sandin was on pp, he created thing
-When Timmins was on pp, he created thing
-When gustafsson was on pp, he created thing

When liljegren, giordano or brodie was on pp, they are absolutly nothing who was coming from the D on pp

If your thinking using liljegren should make leafs a better pp, sorry youre just losing all credibility

Ok, thanks. Good luck, Sheldon.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nobody in Carolina has "taken less". Even if Friedman's random speculation were true, it's clearly referencing players taking less than their market value, not players making less because they're worse and weren't worth more when they signed.

Aho - 10.38% as a C... 30 goals, 83 points. Involved in 34% of teams goals
Marner 13.38% as a winger 26 goals, 94 points. Involved in 32% of teams goals.
Matthews 14.64% as a C, 37 goals, 73 points Involved in 25.5% of teams goals.

Objectively... Aho was either substantially underpaid compared to Marner and Matthews, or Marner (in particular) and Matthews were overpaid.

Aho scored 10 more points than Matthews, and had seven less goals in his contract year... but that's a 30% discount, because he's THAT much worse?

I'm sorry.. I can't agree here.

You just have to watch the game
-When rielly on pp, he created thing
-When sandin was on pp, he created thing
-When Timmins was on pp, he created thing
-When gustafsson was on pp, he created thing

When liljegren, giordano or brodie was on pp, they are absolutly nothing who was coming from the D on pp

If your thinking using liljegren should make leafs a better pp, sorry youre just losing all credibility

Tell me about watching Liljegren with the Marlies, and their PP? Tell me about how you've watched Liljegren how he progresses, and what you understand about that.

 

[Legion34]

I mean these are the last season on their respective ELCs for Aho and Marner:

Aho - 82GP, 30G, 83pts
Marner - 82Gp, 26G, 94pts

Both got 5 years but it took an offer sheet for Aho to get 8.5 vs 10.9 for Marner. You could argue more for Marner but I don't see how you could possibly argue the winger with 11 more points should get 30% more than the defensively responsible centre with more goals.

Marner got 6 years.

He was also owed sb that he earned but lou refused to give him saying he never does. Only to give them to Matthews.

Marners comparable was rantanen and even with the SB added on he was over paid about 1.25-1.5

 

[horner]

Do you truly think Parise is better than Jarnkrok right now?

Don't know I think he offers something different for the playoffs.
He has more get in your face he will go to the crease .

 

[Gallagbi]

Aho - 10.38% as a C... 30 goals, 83 points. Involved in 34% of teams goals
Marner 13.38% as a winger 26 goals, 94 points. Involved in 32% of teams goals.
Matthews 14.64% as a C, 37 goals, 73 points Involved in 25.5% of teams goals.

Objectively... Aho was either substantially underpaid compared to Marner and Matthews, or Marner (in particular) and Matthews were overpaid.

Aho scored 10 more points than Matthews, and had seven less goals in his contract year... but that's a 30% discount, because he's THAT much worse?

I'm sorry.. I can't agree here.



Tell me about watching Liljegren with the Marlies, and their PP? Tell me about how you've watched Liljegren how he progresses, and what you understand about that.

Didnt Aho sign with MTL?

 

[Fogelhund]

Didnt Aho sign with MTL?

He did... and still ended up getting paid much less than Marner or Matthews, for a prior years performance that wasn't far off either.

 

[horner]

Trade
Lafferty
Jamcrock
Brodie
Use the draft capital for a dman
or sign Dumba ufa 4 mil

Sign
Austin Watson ufa 1.3 mil
Loves to hit fight good skater reliable two way player can pk


Zach Parise ufa 1.3 mil

These players will offer alot in the playoffs

 

[Leaf Rocket]

All situations 1000+ minutes played

View attachment 727166

Pesce doesn't turn the puck over much.

I wish we could've gotten Slavin...Damn.

I am very curious who will be here after the trade.

 

[justashadowof]

I think the Leafs need another defensive forward with a bigger body. He's unexciting but I suggest Tomas Nosek whose price must be dropping the longer he has gone unsigned. His price is probably a little high for a player who has never got over 20 points in a season. But he's a center and great on draws. I'd be willing give him near $1.5M. If Jarnkrok has to go to make this happen, so be it I could live with that.

 

[geo25]

Unless he softens on his $10m+ ask, you absolutely should be trading him. He pretty much holds all the cards now, as do Matthews and Marner.

Yeah, because our brain dead mgmt team let it get to this point. I am 50/50 on whether AM will pull a Gaudreau and 100% WN will walk if he isnt traded. They all should have been shipped out after Shanny & Co....this is going to get very interesting....

 

[ToDavid]

IMO Klingberg replaces Holl. If Brodie is traded, somebody will be brought in to replace him. If that somebody is Pesche will you not be happy ?

Honestly I’m wary of a Pesce deal. You’re giving up probably not insignificant assets to effectively get a younger, slightly better version of Brodie. He’s a good all-around defenseman but not a game breaker. And I wonder how much he’s benefiting from an extremely strong Hurricanes defensive system.

His value rests a lot on how good his contract has been, but that’s clearly no longer going to be the case in a year. Do you want Pesce long term at potentially $7m+? If not do you want to give up assets for a small 1-year upgrade on Brodie?

The UFA market is deep next summer. I would rather just wait and make a splash then.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think the Leafs need another defensive forward with a bigger body. He's unexciting but I suggest Tomas Nosek whose price must be dropping the longer he has gone unsigned. His price is probably a little high for a player who has never got over 20 points in a season. But he's a center and great on draws. I'd be willing give him near $1.5M. If Jarnkrok has to go to make this happen, so be it I could live with that.

I think he'd be a good add for center depth. I don't know why you'd want Jarnkrok gone for him though... that would be taking a step back in almost every aspect except faceoffs.

The other problem is that I think they have to figure out their cap before they plunge further into the red.

 

[thusk]

Aho - 10.38% as a C... 30 goals, 83 points. Involved in 34% of teams goals
Marner 13.38% as a winger 26 goals, 94 points. Involved in 32% of teams goals.
Matthews 14.64% as a C, 37 goals, 73 points Involved in 25.5% of teams goals.

Objectively... Aho was either substantially underpaid compared to Marner and Matthews, or Marner (in particular) and Matthews were overpaid.

Aho scored 10 more points than Matthews, and had seven less goals in his contract year... but that's a 30% discount, because he's THAT much worse?

I'm sorry.. I can't agree here.



Tell me about watching Liljegren with the Marlies, and their PP? Tell me about how you've watched Liljegren how he progresses, and what you understand about that.

You talking about AHL... Are you really serious

Did he progress? Yes
Did he progress enough to play in a good top 4 or in a good NHL pp? No he still need a huge step foward for top 4 and i dont think he having the ability to drive a pp in NHL.

 

[Fogelhund]

You talking about AHL... Are you really serious

Did he progress? Yes
Did he progress enough to play in a good top 4 or in a good NHL pp? No he still need a huge step foward for top 4 and i dont think he having the ability to drive a pp in NHL.

If you don’t understand the player, just say so.

 

[andora]

You talking about AHL... Are you really serious

Did he progress? Yes
Did he progress enough to play in a good top 4 or in a good NHL pp? No he still need a huge step foward for top 4 and i dont think he having the ability to drive a pp in NHL.

Are you hung up on him driving the powerplay? He doesnt have to if he has a forward to do that.. run it off the half wall

Lilly can pass and he has a shot... the power play doesn't have to run through him for him to be successful on it or to use his tools