New GM Trades and Signings Part 2

[Menzinger]

Who says Nylander wants $10mil to play for Carolina?

Necas isn’t getting moved either.

Pesce, Skejei and TT are likely to be moved though… so that’s your package Pesce and TT, assuming Nylander and Carolina could come to terms around $8.75-9 mil, and Leaf’s could could come to terms with Pesce around $6mil. We probably move Brodie to them as well… both teams get replacement players at those positions at least for this year.

Though why would he suddenly give this team a deal? I don't see what's in it for him

 

[BM14]

pp ice time/production / pts by 60
Sandin 94 min/ 7 assist/ 4,46
Gio 45 min/ 0 pts / 0
Liljegren 30 min/1 assist /1,85
Timmins 29 min/ 4 assist/ 8,13
Gustafsson 16 min 3 assist/ 14,91

So if you want a guy who can play even strenght and pp, youre better go with Timmins

Know the thing about statistics? They can be manipulated to tell any story.

How many of those minutes were PP1 vs PP2? How many were against PK1 and PK2?
How many were at the end of a PP vs beginning? Close game? Blowout and not trying to run up the score?

Try not to stat watch; you miss the game.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

I disagree with your assessment of our Dmen.

- Brodie has long been known as a steady 2-way defenseman who can eat up large minutes.

- McCabe is a good top 4 guy who is physical and strong defensively.

- Timmins and Lily are 2 younger guys who haven't fully developed into their NHL roles yet. Too early to tell what kind of player they'll be.

Great let’s run back the same vanilla defence again. Enjoy it.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I don't agree with that. He was great when he returned. He won playoff MVP the year they won the Calder.

Not talking about the one with the Albany Devils, saw that one too

I am pretty sure he got concussed in the bigs against the New Jersey Devils as well or some injury and I was like damn deja vu

 

[Fogelhund]

Though why would he suddenly give this team a deal? I don't see what's in it for him

Has he not said he won’t take less, unless the others take less? Everyone in Carolina has taken less than Matthews and Marner correct?

Friedman "believes William Nylander will not take less $ if he thinks no one else will. If others take less, so will he"

 

[CelticDruid]

To Toronto-
Pesce
Necas

To Carolina-
Nylander
Niemela
1st Round Pick

Might as well have thrown Matthews in as well.

 

[Brobust]

Who says Nylander wants $10mil to play for Carolina?

Necas isn’t getting moved either.

Pesce, Skejei and TT are likely to be moved though… so that’s your package Pesce and TT, assuming Nylander and Carolina could come to terms around $8.75-9 mil, and Leaf’s could could come to terms with Pesce around $6mil. We probably move Brodie to them as well… both teams get replacement players at those positions at least for this year.

Players like Nylander have a better track record than players like Pesce.

It's like Phil Kessel vs Dan Hamuis as far as I'm concerned.

If it's a rental swap, I may be persuaded but with extensions? f*** that.

BTW, there's a reason Carolina doesn't want to extend Pesce at a number likely close to Weegar.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Based on your logic, guess we just got to trade the entire team.

Well a good chunk of the team is gone. 8/21 players who suited up for us in the playoffs are gone, that's more than one-third of the team. And half of the guys gone played top six and top four minutes for us so it's not like it's spare parts that went out the door.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Leafs should sign Brendan Lemieux, Kieffer Bellows and Cal Foote.

This way we could have a former athlete team.

Hockey Team

Brian Bellows (Kieffer Bellows' Dad) - Michael Nylander (Willy's Dad) - Claude Lemieux (Brendan Lemieux's Uncle)
Jason Robertson (Nick's Brother) - Todd Bertuzzi (Tyler Bertuzzi's Uncle) - Tie Domi (Max Domi's Dad)
Carl Klingberg (John's brother) - Elias Lindholm (Calle Jarnkrok's Cousin)- Alexander Nylander (Willy's Brother)
Jorgen Holmberg (Pontus's dad)

Adam Foote (Cal Foote) - Mark Fusco (Prospect John Fusco's dad)

-All Family Members made the Nhl, except Holmberg who was an SHL champion and over a ppg player.


Non Hockey Pro-Athletes
Willard Reaves - NFLer (Reaves Dad)
Jordan Reaves - CFLer (Reaves Brother)
Wes Matthews - NFL (Auston's Uncle)
Tessa Virtue - Canadian Olympian Gold Medalist (Morgan Rielly's Wife)

 

[Fogelhund]

Players like Nylander have a better track record than players like Pesce.

It's like Phil Kessel vs Dan Hamuis as far as I'm concerned.

If it's a rental swap, I may be persuaded but with extensions? f*** that.

BTW, there's a reason Carolina doesn't want to extend Pesce at a number likely close to Weegar.

I guess better track records depends on how you look at it. Pesce has won more playoff rounds than Nylander. Lol.

But seriously, this isn’t a Pesce for Nylander trade, I didn’t propose such a thing and I’d assume you are smart enough to know this.

 

[Menzinger]

Has he not said he won’t take less, unless the others take less? Everyone in Carolina has taken less than Matthews and Marner correct?

Friedman "believes William Nylander will not take less $ if he thinks no one else will. If others take less, so will he"

I suppose I interpreted that as being more Toronto centric position than as a general rule/philosophy for the guy this free agency.

Because imo if it comes down to Nylander getting moved out of the Leafs he's going to chase the dollars. I don't see him opting to give a new team a break if he's got zero connections to it

 

[andora]

pp ice time/production / pts by 60
Sandin 94 min/ 7 assist/ 4,46
Gio 45 min/ 0 pts / 0
Liljegren 30 min/1 assist /1,85
Timmins 29 min/ 4 assist/ 8,13
Gustafsson 16 min 3 assist/ 14,91

So if you want a guy who can play even strenght and pp, youre better go with Timmins

30 minute base?

Timmins tries more shit and you get rewarded for that but uou also give up more

Though why would he suddenly give this team a deal? I don't see what's in it for him

Better take home

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Well a good chunk of the team is gone. 8/21 players who suited up for us in the playoffs are gone, that's more than one-third of the team. And half of the guys gone played top six and top four minutes for us so it's not like it's spare parts that went out the door.

Nice, almost half way there too a full fire sale for one bad series.

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

Though why would he suddenly give this team a deal? I don't see what's in it for him

They do have a much better tax rate there and he won't have $11M team mates.

 

[Rielly4]

Man if we lose Robertson just to clear Murrays cap hit thats gonna be very rough... I think Robertson has a chance to really have a good year this year. I like the idea of a scoring 3rd line like:
Robertson-Domi-Jarnkrok.

 

[rdogg]

Man if we lose Robertson just to clear Murrays cap hit thats gonna be very rough... I think Robertson has a chance to really have a good year this year. I like the idea of a scoring 3rd line like:
Robertson-Domi-Jarnkrok.

But what has Robertson done that makes you think he'll break through?

He's small and injury prone.

 

[Rielly4]

But what has Robertson done that makes you think he'll break through?

He's small and injury prone.

I mean I think hes capable of 18 goals 40 pts on our 3rd line and 2nd PP.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Has he not said he won’t take less, unless the others take less? Everyone in Carolina has taken less than Matthews and Marner correct?
Friedman "believes William Nylander will not take less $ if he thinks no one else will. If others take less, so will he"

Nobody in Carolina has "taken less". Even if Friedman's random speculation were true, it's clearly referencing players taking less than their market value, not players making less because they're worse and weren't worth more when they signed.

 

[Legion34]

Though why would he suddenly give this team a deal? I don't see what's in it for him

Taxes make it cheaper

 

[VanW27]

Nobody in Carolina has "taken less". Even if Friedman's random speculation were true, it's clearly referencing players taking less than their market value, not players making less because they're worse and weren't worth more when they signed.

I mean these are the last season on their respective ELCs for Aho and Marner:

Aho - 82GP, 30G, 83pts
Marner - 82Gp, 26G, 94pts

Both got 5 years but it took an offer sheet for Aho to get 8.5 vs 10.9 for Marner. You could argue more for Marner but I don't see how you could possibly argue the winger with 11 more points should get 30% more than the defensively responsible centre with more goals.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

I mean these are the last season on their respective ELCs for Aho and Marner:

Aho - 82GP, 30G, 83pts
Marner - 82Gp, 26G, 94pts

Both got 5 years but it took an offer sheet for Aho to get 8.5 vs 10.9 for Marner. You could argue more for Marner but I don't see how you could possibly argue the winger with 11 more points should get 30% more than the defensively responsible centre with more goals.

That defensively responsible center was 28th in selke voting this year receiving a whopping 5 points, Marner on the other hand 3rd receiving 480 points. But yes that 4 goal difference.

 

[thusk]

Know the thing about statistics? They can be manipulated to tell any story.

How many of those minutes were PP1 vs PP2? How many were against PK1 and PK2?
How many were at the end of a PP vs beginning? Close game? Blowout and not trying to run up the score?

Try not to stat watch; you miss the game.

You just have to watch the game
-When rielly on pp, he created thing
-When sandin was on pp, he created thing
-When Timmins was on pp, he created thing
-When gustafsson was on pp, he created thing

When liljegren, giordano or brodie was on pp, they are absolutly nothing who was coming from the D on pp

If your thinking using liljegren should make leafs a better pp, sorry youre just losing all credibility

 

[Dekes For Days]

I mean these are the last season on their respective ELCs for Aho and Marner

Aho - 82GP, 30G, 83pts
Marner - 82Gp, 26G, 94pts

Both got 5 years but it took an offer sheet for Aho to get 8.5 vs 10.9 for Marner. You could argue more for Marner but I don't see how you could possibly argue the winger with 11 more points should get 30% more than the defensively responsible centre with more goals.

Contracts aren't based on one year, and their raw points in that final year also don't very accurately reflect the difference in their offensive impacts in that year. Just quickly...

Through their ELCs:
Marner vs. Aho
0.93 vs. 0.81 points per game
0.90 vs. 0.76 points per game (no EN)
2.39 vs. 1.94 points per 60 at 5v5
7.19 vs. 5.37 points per 60 on the PP

Final season:
Marner vs. Aho
1.15 vs. 1.01 P/GP
1.06 vs. 0.93 P/GP (no EN)
2.87 vs. 1.99 P/60 at 5v5
5.94 vs. 5.85 P/60 on the PP

Marner also got 6 years, not 5, so it's not a straight 8.5m to 10.9 comparison, and Aho was not more defensively responsible or a better goal scorer.
Both PKed, but not very much at that point. Both were given offer sheets.

And I mean, all of this is pretty irrelevant anyway, because while we could discuss how much better and more valuable Marner was than Aho through their pre-signing period, the fact is that there is no way to argue that signing an offer sheet with another team is taking less to stay in Carolina.

 

[VanW27]

Contracts aren't based on one year, and their raw points in that final year also don't very accurately reflect the difference in their offensive impacts in that year. Just quickly...

Through their ELCs:
Marner vs. Aho
0.93 vs. 0.81 points per game
0.90 vs. 0.76 points per game (no EN)
2.39 vs. 1.94 points per 60 at 5v5
7.19 vs. 5.37 points per 60 on the PP

Final season:
Marner vs. Aho
1.15 vs. 1.01 P/GP
1.06 vs. 0.93 P/GP (no EN)
2.87 vs. 1.99 P/60 at 5v5
5.94 vs. 5.85 P/60 on the PP

Marner also got 6 years, not 5, so it's not a straight 8.5m to 10.9 comparison, and Aho was not more defensively responsible or a better goal scorer.
Both PKed, but not very much at that point. Both were given offer sheets.

And I mean, all of this is pretty irrelevant anyway, because while we could discuss how much better and more valuable Marner was than Aho through their pre-signing period, the fact is that there is no way to argue that signing an offer sheet with another team is taking less to stay in Carolina.

Sure, it's not "taking less", I guess I would argue players very rarely "take less" outside the occasional vet at the end of their career.

What does happen is teams like the Canes set a valuation on the player and if the player doesn't like it they can either sit or be traded - regardless of what they might be able to justify in their contract demands. The overall point being, I'd be shocked if the Canes valued Nylander at 10 per, so proposals with him signing an extension and bringing back Necas + seem extremely unrealistic to me.

 

[weems]

All situations 1000+ minutes played

Pesce doesn't turn the puck over much.