New GM Trades and Signings Part 2

[al secord]

I'm pretty sure the Culture Club is playing the Saddledome tonight....a friend told me.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Hope they don’t give away Robertson to move Murray…. Gross

I'd rather do that than give up a 1st. I had high hopes for Robertson but based on his career trajectory so far, it's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make.

 

[jaric1862]

That’s not what he said. He said Robertson’s name is out there and then gave his own opinion that he could possibly be used as a sweetener in a Murray deal.

“Nick Robertson also a name that’s floating around there that could potentially be moved, maybe as a sweetener for someone taking on a guy like Murray, so, again, something else to keep tabs on”

Doesn’t exactly sound like he’s pulling that out of thin air, champ.

 

[leafsfan5]

He was not good down the stretch or in the playoffs. I think he's a risk at his age as he will likely start to decline even more moving forward.


I agree with both options.

He literally just had a season where he was a top 5 defensive defenseman in the NHL and was excellent in round 1 versus Tampa. Kucherov + Point got outplayed 5v5 and only scored a combined 4 points 5v5 for the entire series. Those are 2 of the best playoff players in the NHL and they got shutdown by TJ Brodie

A bad round against Florida really changes peoples views of him to an extreme extent

 

[Jmo89]

The problem with the logic of "we haven't won, let's trade Nylander" is he's the member of the core that has played the best in the playoffs relative to expectations

I think the issue for some is the current mix of the core 4, not Nylander specifically. Nylander has arguably had the best results in the playoffs, especially when contracts and ice time are taken into account.

I bet most people would prefer Tavares be traded, but that won't happen with his NMC and current contract. Then there are probably those like myself who would prefer Marner be traded. Marner is a great player who has underwhelmed in the playoffs, but I have trouble seeing the team be successful when he's always chasing a Matthews contract.

Matthews won't be traded unless he asks for it.

That leaves Nylander who currently has one year left at a great price, and even after he gets his new contract will he the cheapest of the 4, which is equally valuable to the Leafs and to trade partners. The biggest thing working against Nylander right now is that his new contract will come into effect during the cap crunch next offseason.

IMO, Nylander has the strongest case to stay behind Matthews, but for whatever reason management won't even sniff the idea of moving Marner.

I think it's a fair criticism to say that the current group of 4 haven't won enough (as a collective) and have fallen far short of expectations. It's unfair that Nylander may be the one to bear the brunt of that failure, but if he's the only one management is willing to move, then he's the only one who can bring about any meaningful change through trade.

The other alternatives are that these guys finally "click" and go on a deep run, but then the team likely has to take a step back next year to accommodate a Murray buyout and the Nylander / Matthews extensions.

Or they ride things out until the Tavares contract ends at which point MNM are approaching 30.

 

[Antropovsky]

Keefe had a knack of humiliating his Swedish players and his use of Sandin, Lilly and Nylander was rather underwhelming. Tough to watch them being under utilized sitting in the bench with that "What the f*** look"

If Nylander played in Carolina on a team that is stacked from top to bottom he would win a Stanley Cup.







-


All speculation right now but I believe that he will surprise a lot of people.

Yep... Marner gave the puck away three times in one period, two resulting in goals against and one the goalie had to make an incredible save and he was reluctantly benched for one shift. Yet Keefe doesn't have issues with benching Nylander occasionally.

Baby gloves with Marner because they know he doesn't have mental toughness to not be babied.

It's a bad look for the team as a whole.

 

[conFABulator]

An arbitration case completed gives the player a 1 (or 2) year term deal, and TB has the player under contract for next year guaranteed. Remember this is only the filing process TB and Jeannot can come to terms at any time on a new deal until a hearing and settlement.

Because of the Arb filing unless TB walks away from the settlement making him a UFA this summer, his contract likely 1 year walks right up to July 1st, 2024 which is the same UFA date for Matthews and Nylander (and that is what I meant of Leafs facing the same deadline to re-sign) and TB has the same exclusive renewal period all of next year.

Leafs face the same issue with their #1G Samsonov of a potential larger settlement then the team likes on a 1 year deal, (which currently they can't fit in) and the basis for his next contract or he also walks as a UFA. As a Leafs fan I'm more concerned about Sammy our starting goalie as opposed to TB 3rd line winger issue.

Besides Leafs just traded a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks for UFAs Ryan O'Reilly and Noel Accairi and they walked away as TD rentals. The Tampa Bay Lightning acquired RFA forward Tanner Jeannot from the Nashville Predators in exchange for Lightning's first-round pick in 2025 (Top 10 protected), their second-round selection in 2024, as well as third, fourth and fifth-round picks in 2023. Leafs literally gave up nearly the same picks for rental players whereas TB still has lots of options to recover some of that investment.

Poor Treliving .. He has key core 4 players being walked up to free agency July 1st 2024, their #1G Samsonov just filed for Arbitration, of which any settlement Leafs can't currently fit into their Cap as they're already +$3 mil over. If the cost is too high Leafs might walk away from Sammy. or walk him right up to free agency in 1 year. They still have Matt Murray clogging up the cap and the roster that needs a buyout ot trade with additional assets to remove. Leafs just dumped a 1st, 2nd, 3rd X 2, 4th round picks for ROR, Acciari and Schenn all lost costs.

How come you compared the Jeannot situation to Nylander and Matthews and when I pointed out it wasn't a good comparable you replied with Samsonov as the comparison?

The Leafs are not walking away from Samsonov, they are not even going to arbitration. Him filing is all part of the plan to leave the second buyout window open if they can't deal Murray.

They will deal Murray though and won't require the large sweetener some are predicting. My guess is he goes to Anaheim or Winnipeg once they move their current numbers ones.

I could see Nylander being dealt in a hokey trade, but not a dump. If we can get a top 4 D, a prospect and cap space it might make sense.

The Leafs are in a very good cap position. Yes, it is tight but a contending team should be tight to the cap. They just added two top six forwards and a top 4 D and didn't lost anyone or consequence from last year....they have lost lots of TDL adds but that is why they are called rental.

From the beginning of last year they will have replaced:
Holl, Sandin, Kerfoot, Engvall, Murray, Aston-Reece, Malgin, and NAK

with:

McCabe, Klingberg, Domi, Knies, Woll, Bertuzzi, Lafferty and Robertson. We had a first round draft pick too.

That seems like lots of upgrading, no? Why all the doom and gloom? What other contenders have improved this much? Not Boston. Not Tampa. Not Florida. Not NYR. Carolina maybe.

Are you sure we were left in such bad shape?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Let's be honest, Pesce + Zadorov makes our D group pretty good.

Rielly-Pesce
McCabe-Klingberg
Zadorov-Liljgren

 

[smitty10]

You will never get jarvis and pesce for nylander and liljegren

If you adding jarvis, probably knies who will be in the deal with nylander and not liljegren...

Pesce and 2nd pick, i dont think leafs would get much more than that

You don't think a 90 point player will bring back more than a #2/3 Dman and a 2nd rounder?

Take a look at what Meier just got at the TDL. They scored the same number of goals (40) and Meier had 21 less points than Nylander.

 

[horner]

Leafs gave away their 1st round pick in 2022 to dump Mrazek for a 2nd in return (Fraser Minton).

Leafs could now deal Minton + Murray to get out the latest former GM blunder.

That would essentially end up costing the Leafs a 1st round pick to remove both Mrazek and Murray of past mistakes.

Buy him out we can't afford to give up free players

 

[TMLAM34]

Let's be honest, Pesce + Zadorov makes our D group pretty good.

Rielly-Pesce
McCabe-Klingberg
Zadorov-Liljgren

Ideal d group.

 

[Burnie97]

Ideal d group.

Let's be honest, Pesce + Zadorov makes our D group pretty good.

Rielly-Pesce
McCabe-Klingberg
Zadorov-Liljgren

How are leafs getting there? What trades etc?

Honest question?

Cap matters and yup Nylander would have to go but without another at least 20 goal scorer or a can't miss prospect from a Nylander deal... if that even happens how are leafs better?

He's getting 30 minimum goals and it isn't easy to replace.

I'm not against it by the way. I've just been trying to think of good solid ways to trade him and add to the D but still get offence back. It isn't easy.

I do believe of the core 4... 1 needs to go at least but not necessarily him but he's the most likely at this point.

 

[Dragao6]

even if its just for this season Im still desperately hoping for Hallebuyck
send them Samsonov or Murray or both and a 1st. specially if they retrain our Defence immediately gets better!
worry about next season next season

 

[Burnie97]

even if its just for this season Im still desperately hoping for Hallebuyck
send them Samsonov or Murray or both and a 1st. specially if they retrain our Defence immediately gets better!
worry about next season next season

They aren't taking both our goalies and a 1st for Helly. He's arguably one of the best goalies in the league despite what his contract demands are.

I don't think there is a trade there to be made unfortunately as much as it'd be great for the Leafs.

 

[Dragao6]

How are leafs getting there? What trades etc?

Honest question?

Cap matters and yup Nylander would have to go but without another at least 20 goal scorer or a can't miss prospect from a Nylander deal... if that even happens how are leafs better?

He's getting 30 minimum goals and it isn't easy to replace.

I'm not against it by the way. I've just been trying to think of good solid ways to trade him and add to the D but still get offence back. It isn't easy.

I do believe of the core 4... 1 needs to go at least but not necessarily him but he's the most likely at this point.

were a playoff team, those 30 goals won't mean much as well still win games, specially because a willy return will be good

we need is playoff performers
even though he had times he looked good in playoffs he still runs from contact and isn't a sure thing he shows up when games get hard, at least regularly

They aren't taking both our goalies and a 1st for Helly. He's arguably one of the best goalies in the league despite what his contract demands are.

I don't think there is a trade there to be made unfortunately as much as it'd be great for the Leafs.

Murray is a buyout and hallebuyck already stated he aint resigning
return won't be as much as some think
I doubt they let him walk for free

 

[Burnie97]

were a playoff team, those 30 goals won't mean much as well still win games, specially because a willy return will be good

we need is playoff performers
even though he had times he looked good in playoffs he still runs from contact and isn't a sure thing he shows up when games get hard, at least regularly

30 goals is a ton if your only scoring around 250 in a season.

It's arguable with recent additions of domi and Bert that'll make up for it a bit but still leafs need a great return as you said. Who do you figure they get in a return then?

Leafs are an easy playoff team though obviously. It'd be an epic fail for them to f*** up there.

 

[Burnie97]

Murray is a buyout and hallebuyck already stated he aint resigning
return won't be as much as some think
I doubt they let him walk for free

How much does a top goalie stop in comparison to Sammy in a year? (And I do know he has more to prove clearly)

Helly played around 20 or so more games but GAA ... Sammy was quite a bit better ... and save % is basically a wash.

Just what do leafs pay for Helly? And how do they with everything else going on?

 

[Dragao6]

30 goals is a ton if your only scoring around 250 in a season.

It's arguable with recent additions of domi and Bert that'll make up for it a bit but still leafs need a great return as you said. Who do you figure they get in a return then?

Leafs are an easy playoff team though obviously. It'd be an epic fail for them to f*** up there.

U start by looking at teams that are in need of 30 goals and see what they have that we might want, go from there

 

[ToDavid]

“Nick Robertson also a name that’s floating around there that could potentially be moved, maybe as a sweetener for someone taking on a guy like Murray, so, again, something else to keep tabs on”

Doesn’t exactly sound like he’s pulling that out of thin air, champ.

If he had heard Robertson had been pitched as an asset to move Murray, he would have said so directly. He’s reporting that his name is out there.

 

[Go4soda]

who’s burkie working for these days? wonder if he’s interested in trading two 1sts and a 2nd for our 30 goal scorer?

 

[Burnie97]

U start by looking at teams that are in need of 30 goals and see what they have that we might want, go from there

Right but what are your thoughts on that then?

I've said deals with Calgary possibly which may be unrealistic but doable... what teams are you thinking that brings back enough?

 

[Dragao6]

How much does a top goalie stop in comparison to Sammy in a year? (And I do know he has more to prove clearly)

Helly played around 20 or so more games but GAA ... Sammy was quite a bit better ... and save % is basically a wash.

Just what do leafs pay for Helly? And how do they with everything else going on?

All I can say is when playoffs start I’ve seen price take a bottom team to the finals, Bobrovsky take florida to the finals almost singlehanded
Goalie is half the team in playoffs so yeah even if it’s just for 1 year I’d do it

This team is only gonna be able to be legit anyways with flexibility and deep roster once tavares contract dissapear a so might as well go for it with short term options for next 2 seasons! And while 34 16 and 88 are still here

1 cup for us erases all these many decades of misery!

 

[Dragao6]

Right but what are your thoughts on that then?

I've said deals with Calgary possibly which may be unrealistic but doable... what teams are you thinking that brings back enough?

Well in this specific scenario we been talking I’d be all for hallybuuck and scheiffle

Good defenders in calgary
I’m not sure about the Karlson option, I hear SAN Jose Is willing to retain like 4M
I would like ekblad but doubt this happens in the east!
Those r all win now options

I’m sure there are allot of good options out there I don’t even know about as I’m very leafs biased and only watch leafs games. I’m no scout

Also keep the door optem for McDavid in 2 years lol

 

[Burnie97]

All I can say is when playoffs start I’ve seen price take a bottom team to the finals, Bobrovsky take florida to the finals almost singlehanded
Goalie is half the team in playoffs so yeah even if it’s just for 1 year I’d do it

This team is only gonna be able to be legit anyways with flexibility and deep roster once tavares contract dissapear a so might as well go for it with short term options for next 2 seasons! And while 34 16 and 88 are still here

1 cup for us erases all these many decades of misery!

Fair enough with the goalie stuff but Vegas just won with a nobody.

Price didn't win either. Of course vali is great but d can win it with a solid d...

Also timely scoring... which leafs haven't had.

We chalk it up to Bob until he got f***ed up in the final... you remember the last game?

I think we can agree it's a team game. The cap is making it hard no doubt though.

I feel leafs have to do a little more run and gun this year compared to before even with Keefe.

Lots of time left but if they don't get better d they better score a bunch.

 

[Dragao6]

Fair enough with the goalie stuff but Vegas just won with a nobody.

Price didn't win either. Of course vali is great but d can win it with a solid d...

Also timely scoring... which leafs haven't had.

We chalk it up to Bob until he got f***ed up in the final... you remember the last game?

I think we can agree it's a team game. The cap is making it hard no doubt though.

I feel leafs have to do a little more run and gun this year compared to before even with Keefe.

Lots of time left but if they don't get better d they better score a bunch.

I totally agree
But that’s all average teams making it to the finals where we’re an elite team and can never get past 1st round and our d this past season going in was very strong!

U know how optimistic we would be for next year if we had lost in the finals? We would all want the core to come back instead of trading one or two

When was the last time we had a legit top notch goalie? I hate going into every season wondering if our goalie situation is good even

100% our D needs to get better still but even Vegas had great goaltending that did take them all the way hence the extension now. Ur a nobody until you become a somebody