New Accusations Edmonton Oilers owner Daryl Katz paid for sex with a teenager.

[saintunspecified]

To be clear, my discussion has not come from saying Katz should be hung by a lynch mob or anything. The courts will sort this out. I'm pushing back on the extremely unlikely narrative that this was two consenting adults who had equal agency and power in deciding upon a mutually beneficial sexual arrangement.

No doubt there's a huge power differential, but (i) unequal power casts doubt on claims of mutual consent, but don't necessarily cancel them (underage status would), (ii) there is a frigging enormous amount of ground between that and trafficking (alleged or otherwise) ffs.

Honestly, I don't think there's any way to tackle a basic power differential situation generated by massive wealth discrepancies (assuming she wasn't underage) without class revolution. And, let's gooo, if that's what it's about.

 

[TaLoN]

No doubt there's a huge power differential, but (i) unequal power casts doubt on claims of mutual consent, but don't necessarily cancel them (underage status would), (ii) there is a frigging enormous amount of ground between that and trafficking (alleged or otherwise) ffs.

Honestly, I don't think there's any way to tackle a basic power differential situation generated by massive wealth discrepancies (assuming she wasn't underage) without class revolution. And, let's gooo, if that's what it's about.

He mentioned that she was trafficked, not that he did the trafficking. It affects her judgment ability in the situation. She's not exactly someone who has had healthy relationship experience considering at her age, she's a sex trafficking victim who had been raped.

Along comes Katz giving her $75k for a "project" that has zero evidence ever having existed, and telling her to "keep it quiet because nobody would understand."

There doesn't appear to be anything benevolent about him here. This is a pure power/ money/ manipulation of a 17yro girl who has already been a victim of trafficking and rape, so he sees an "opportunity" to take advantage of someone who probably doesn't have a healthy state of mind, to get what he wants.

 

[ManofSteel55]

That's not what I'm doing at all, but keep spinning things to defend the married 53 year old who gave $75k to a teenager to "finance her film project."

Weird how Katz keeps stumbling into these unfortunate misunderstandings where he wants to give women tens of thousands of dollars and they somehow misconstrue it's payment for sex.

It is what you are doing, even if you don't realize it. The only ones accusing Katz in this scenario are the couple who the girl is accusing of sexual harrassing her. So if you want to back the ones who are accused of sexually assaulting a half dozen minor ballerinas, then that's on you.

I haven't defended Katz once. All I have done is point out that you are jumping to conclusions based on the words of a pair accused of sexually assaulting minors.

I do agree with you that Katz is likely just as good of a person as nearly every other billionaire out there - and I don't consider billionaires good people no matter how much good they claim to do publicly. Katz does seem like a greasy lying piece of trash, but in this case, the only accusation here isn't reliable at all.

 

[saintunspecified]

There doesn't appear to be anything benevolent about him here. This is a pure power/ money/ manipulation of a 17yro girl who has already been a victim of trafficking and rape, so he sees an "opportunity" to take advantage of someone who probably doesn't have a healthy state of mind, to get what he wants.

There's a scope amibguity here, which makes it unclear whether Katz is (i) taking advantage of a person he intuits to be vulnerable, OR (ii) whether Katz is taking advantage of a person he understands as vulnerable because of how he believes/knows they've been victimized. If it's (ii) he'll be forced out - he'll be radioactive. If it's (i) he's a super-rich person. There's no such thing as a super-rich person who doesn't routinely do that, all though not all do it wrt sex.

Obviously, I don't see him as benevolant in any way, lol.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It is what you are doing, even if you don't realize it. The only ones accusing Katz in this scenario are the couple who the girl is accusing of sexual harrassing her. So if you want to back the ones who are accused of sexually assaulting a half dozen minor ballerinas, then that's on you.

I haven't defended Katz once. All I have done is point out that you are jumping to conclusions based on the words of a pair of sexually assaulting minors.

I do agree with you that Katz is likely just as good of a person as nearly every other billionaire out there - and I don't consider billionaires good people no matter how much good they claim to do publicly. Katz does seem like a greasy lying piece of trash, but in this case, the only accusation here isn't reliable at all.

yeah, that's not what I'm doing at all here but way to twist the situation.

 

[ManofSteel55]

yeah, that's not what I'm doing at all here but way to twist the situation.

I'm not twisting anything. You are literally taking an accusation that has only been made by the Button's, and are using that as gospel to suggest that Katz did what they are saying they did. So yes, you are doing it. I like the fact that people try to call out others for poor behaviour, I really do, but there are so many stretches in here. So keep taking the word of the people using Katz to deflect from their own wrongdoings here. He's a bad person by most accounts, but the smoking gun isn't here for this one.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

If that’s what you want to believe, that is your opinion. I feel it’s telling in what post you are comfortable quoting. I’m an also entitled to my opinion, and with the latest facts, I am comfortable with my beliefs. Ifu am proven wrong in the future, I would ecstatic to admit it. But I’m comfortable in my believe.

That’s fine and all. I’m just willing to say that things may not be on the up and up, and I’m gonna lean slightly one way over the other without being adamant

 

[TaLoN]

I'm not twisting anything. You are literally taking an accusation that has only been made by the Button's, and are using that as gospel to suggest that Katz did what they are saying they did. So yes, you are doing it. I like the fact that people try to call out others for poor behaviour, I really do, but there are so many stretches in here. So keep taking the word of the people using Katz to deflect from their own wrongdoings here. He's a bad person by most accounts, but the smoking gun isn't here for this one.

What's being done here, is discussion about allegations about someone in the NHL on an NHL related forum.

Thus obviously the focus of discussion on an NHL forum will be how it affects those in the NHL. Thus this thread can't possibly take focus away from the others involved, as this thread should never exist in the first place without the individual in question being involved in the story.

 

[ManofSteel55]

What's being done here, is discussion about allegations about someone in the NHL on an NHL related forum.

Thus obviously the focus of discussion on an NHL forum will be how it affects those in the NHL. Thus this thread can't possibly take focus away from the others involved, as this thread should never exist in the first place without the individual in question being involved in the story.

I have no issue with the discussion being held in general. I have no issue with people hating Katz. I hate on him for a lot of things too, and have hated on him for being creepy in the past. The only thing I have an issue with is the people suggesting he did it when the evidence shows that the accusation likely has no merit behind it, including the victim in all of this saying it didn't happen.

 

[TaLoN]

I have no issue with the discussion being held in general. I have no issue with people hating Katz. I hate on him for a lot of things too, and have hated on him for being creepy in the past. The only thing I have an issue with is the people suggesting he did it when the evidence shows that the accusation likely has no merit behind it, including the victim in all of this saying it didn't happen.

Nobody is saying "he did it" as exactly as accused. What people are saying, no matter how you try to twist it, his involvement in any way shape or form appears disgusting. Even if everything is consensual, this is at least a sugar daddy scenario by a 53yro married billionaire with a vulnerable 17yro girl.

I'm not buying this mythical "film project" explanation of his at all for why he gave her $75k, and told her to "keep it quiet because people wouldn't understand." Telling her she's "wise beyond her years."

 

[ManofSteel55]

Nobody is saying "he did it" as exactly as accused. What people are saying, no matter how you try to twist it, his involvement in any way shape or form appears disgusting. Even if everything is consensual, this is at least a sugar daddy scenario by a 53yro married billionaire with a vulnerable 17yro girl.

I'm not buying this mythical "film project" explanation of his at all for why he gave her $75k, and told her to "keep it quiet because people wouldn't understand." Telling her she's "wise beyond her years."

Your last sentence kind of says differently. You're taking a couple of texts and you have interpreted them in a way that may not even be correct. I'm not saying he didn't do anything wrong here, because I don't know the context behind the texts. You are saying he did do things despite not knowing the context behind the texts.

Anyway, I'm done arguing about this. I don't like Katz and I'm not going to waste any more time posting why I think your position here is flawed, as I don't want people to think I actually like that guy or am defending his actions if he did actually do what you think he did. Have a good day.

 

[TaLoN]

Your last sentence kind of says differently.

They're saying he paid her as a prostitute. I'm saying it's likely a sugar daddy relationship... not illegal, but completely disgusting.

He admitted giving her money... for this mythical "film project."
I'm doubting this project ever existed, and he used his power/ money and manipulated a vulnerable abused 17yro into making a bad decision.

 

[Leafshater67]

I’ll sleep with him for 75 grand too.

Wow. What a sicko. Rich dudes can have their pick from models and yet they keep getting caught doing disgusting stuff like this..

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Sorry my dyslexia is messing with me today.

I thought the thread title said "New Acquisitions".

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I'm not twisting anything. You are literally taking an accusation that has only been made by the Button's, and are using that as gospel to suggest that Katz did what they are saying they did. So yes, you are doing it. I like the fact that people try to call out others for poor behaviour, I really do, but there are so many stretches in here. So keep taking the word of the people using Katz to deflect from their own wrongdoings here. He's a bad person by most accounts, but the smoking gun isn't here for this one.

I never said Katz did what they said he did. I said this girl may have been raped and sex trafficked. She's in the middle of an entirely and majorly f***ed up situation with the Buttons. You are the one twisting that into my saying it happened with Katz.

As I said earlier, the court will sort out the facts. But a 53 year old married billionaire sending $75,000 to a teenager to "help finance a movie project" is a ridiculously bad cover story. I guess this teenage girl was the one procuring financing for a feature film? that sounds like a reasonable way feature films come together. I'm sure a billionaire invests in things like that all the time with teenagers.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I never said Katz did what they said he did. I said this girl may have been raped and sex trafficked. She's in the middle of an entirely and majorly f***ed up situation with the Buttons. You are the one twisting that into my saying it happened with Katz.

As I said earlier, the court will sort out the facts. But a 53 year old married billionaire sending $75,000 to a teenager to "help finance a movie project" is a ridiculously bad cover story. I guess this teenage girl was the one procuring financing for a feature film? that sounds like a reasonable way feature films come together. I'm sure a billionaire invests in things like that all the time with teenagers.

say what you will, but Katz has 2 producer credits on IMDB. Its not out of the realm of possibility he was hit up for capital for a movie.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

say what you will, but Katz has 2 producer credits on IMDB. Its not out of the realm of possibility he was hit up for capital for a movie.

I'm not arguing that point.

You do not develop and finance feature films by giving $75,000 to a teenage girl. And you definitely don't tell them to keep it hush hush. You want contracts and paper trails to avoid future lawsuits as to who did what. And the money would be given to an LLC or some sort of corporation, not some teenager.

 

[OG Eberle]

He mentioned that she was trafficked, not that he did the trafficking. It affects her judgment ability in the situation. She's not exactly someone who has had healthy relationship experience considering at her age, she's a sex trafficking victim who had been raped.

Along comes Katz giving her $75k for a "project" that has zero evidence ever having existed, and telling her to "keep it quiet because nobody would understand."

There doesn't appear to be anything benevolent about him here. This is a pure power/ money/ manipulation of a 17yro girl who has already been a victim of trafficking and rape, so he sees an "opportunity" to take advantage of someone who probably doesn't have a healthy state of mind, to get what he wants.

You mean the film project that is listed on iMDB as actually still "in production" still?

Here is the website if you need the proof.

This isn't me arguing something bad didn't happen here either or couldn't have, but it's also disingenious to say that this film project has "zero evidence of ever having existed".

 

[TaLoN]

say what you will, but Katz has 2 producer credits on IMDB. Its not out of the realm of possibility he was hit up for capital for a movie.

Yup, but up for capital for a film, that he paid admittedly to a 17yro girl. Sounds legit.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Yup, but up for capital for a film, that he paid admittedly to a 17yro girl. Sounds legit.

Sounds like we don't know the whole story. It sounds fishy. Most of the time, when something fishy is happening, people ask questions to try to figure out why it seems fishy. You, on the other hand, seem comfortable with deciding what the fishy smell means rather than asking the questions.

 

[TaLoN]

Sounds like we don't know the whole story. It sounds fishy. Most of the time, when something fishy is happening, people ask questions to try to figure out why it seems fishy. You, on the other hand, seem comfortable with deciding what the fishy smell means rather than asking the questions.

What i'm saying, what sounds fishy is likely meaning he's a disgusting individual.

The legality part I'm leaving to others, as even legal forms can still make him a disgusting individual.

If you want to believe there's benevolence behind this, that's up to you, but at that point, to me... benevolence sounds like a pipedream.

 

[ManofSteel55]

What i'm saying, what sounds fishy is likely meaning he's a disgusting individual.

The legality part I'm leaving to others, as even legal forms can still make him a disgusting individual.

If you want to believe there's benevolence behind this, that's up to you, but at that point, to me... benevolence sounds like a pipedream.

Now who's twisting.

I know you are saying that it sounds fishy so he must be an awful person.

1) Nobody is saying there is benevolence. We are saying that you haven't been able to show that the reason provided publicly isn't true. Film makers invest in films. Katz owns a film production company. There is no evidence to show that this wasn't a part of the business deal. Or maybe there is, if it exists, can you show it to me?

2) I'm glad you aren't arguing about the legality of it, but the morality - well, lets just say that what you find disgusting doesn't matter. I think he's disgusting too, for other reasons, but that doesn't matter either. Your opinions on morality to the rest of us are just as important as your opinions on the legalities of it.

 

[TaLoN]

Now who's twisting.

I know you are saying that it sounds fishy so he must be an awful person.

1) Nobody is saying there is benevolence. We are saying that you haven't been able to show that the reason provided publicly isn't true. Film makers invest in films. Katz owns a film production company. There is no evidence to show that this wasn't a part of the business deal. Or maybe there is, if it exists, can you show it to me?

2) I'm glad you aren't arguing about the legality of it, but the morality - well, lets just say that what you find disgusting doesn't matter. I think he's disgusting too, for other reasons, but that doesn't matter either. Your opinions on morality to the rest of us are just as important as your opinions on the legalities of it.

Film companies need capital for film projects. Capital calls for film projects get paid to the project accounts, not from one individual to another.

I understand that what I find disgusting doesn't matter. What I find funny though, is everyone keeps trying to defend him from my opinion of him. If it doesn't matter, why are you trying to defend him from me saying he's disgusting?

Just say ok, and move on. I think @Lazlo Hollyfeld has been saying pretty much the same thing as me, yet people jump to Katz's defense from his moral opinion of him too, which also ultimately doesn't matter.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Just for the record, Katz may have offered me 50k for what he called “Project Teabag” but I turned him down because he wanted to toss in Kassian’s contract and I don’t roll like that.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Film companies need capital for film projects. Capital calls for film projects get paid to the project accounts, not from one individual to another.

I understand that what I find disgusting doesn't matter. What I find funny though, is everyone keeps trying to defend him from my opinion of him. If it doesn't matter, why are you trying to defend him from me saying he's disgusting?

Just say ok, and move on. I think @Lazlo Hollyfeld has been saying pretty much the same thing as me, yet people jump to Katz's defense from his moral opinion of him too, which also ultimately doesn't matter.

I'm not defending him from you saying he is disgusting. He's proven that before. You aren't breaking new ground, and even those of us debating with you have said we find the man gross.

What I am saying is that you have taken a pretty huge leap from "this dude sent a creepy text, wtf", where most normal people would be, to "this man was this poor girl's sugar daddy, it's obvious and you won't convince me otherwise even though I have no evidence".

Stop acting like a film expert as well. Film producers will often ask potential partners to flush out their ideas for films, to bring them more than an idea. For all we know, this girl had pitched a film, Katz liked the idea and wanted it to developed into a script or something. But you just jump to "child baiting sugar daddy".