Player Discussion Necas

[A Star is Burns]

While I defend his right to use the leverage he has to nix trades, it's not like there was no attempt made to move him. It just didn't work out on all sides and he was part of that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Winning is fun.

 

[Lempo]

While I defend his right to use the leverage he has to nix trades, it's not like there was no attempt made to move him. It just didn't work out on all sides and he was part of that.

Yeah like players being part in the trades just who do these guys think they are!?

 

[cptjeff]

Yeah like players being part in the trades just who do these guys think they are!?

When you're the one who asks for a trade...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

When you're the one who asks for a trade...

....you still retain all the rights afforded to you in the CBA.

 

[cptjeff]

....you still retain all the rights afforded to you in the CBA.

When you ask for something and the team tries to work with you to give you want you asked for, you kinda have a practical and ethical obligation to work with them if you actually want the thing you say you want.

And you can be within your legal rights and still be a total turd. My way or the highway doesn't win many friends.

Oh, and Necas is always going to be unhappy with his career as long as he deludes himself about being a big star when he isn't and isn't willing to play the type of hockey it takes to get there.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

When you ask for something and the team tries to work with you to give you want you asked for, you have to work with them if you actually want the thing you say you want.

And you can be within your legal rights and still be a total turd.

You can want multiple things. You can want to have more responsibility and also want to be on a better team, and you can want to test free agency if that combination of things doesn't work out.

Honestly, it's all f***ing socialist. Americans seem to despise socialism in their government, but demand it in their sports. Players should be free agents from the day they announce their desire to play in a pro league.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

When you ask for something and the team tries to work with you to give you want you asked for, you kinda have a practical and ethical obligation to work with them if you actually want the thing you say you want.

And you can be within your legal rights and still be a total turd. My way or the highway doesn't win many friends.

I'm still astonished that you guys feel Necas should be obligated to sign a long term deal with anyone the team wants to trade him to just because he asked for a trade. It's mind boggling to think a player needs to do that.

Oh, and Necas is always going to be unhappy with his career as long as he deludes himself about being a big star when he isn't and isn't willing to play the type of hockey it takes to get there.

Now you are just making stuff up.

 

[Borsig]

You can want multiple things. You can want to have more responsibility and also want to be on a better team, and you can want to test free agency if that combination of things doesn't work out.

Honestly, it's all f***ing socialist. Americans seem to despise socialism in their government, but demand it in their sports. Players should be free agents from the day they announce their desire to play in a pro league.

The NHLPA literally worked out the contract. Unions are inherently socialist.

 

[cptjeff]

Now you are just making stuff up.

How many player profiles have we seen where his friends talk about how much Necas thinks he can be a star and is being misused? It's an incredibly persistent theme in basically all media about Necas. And it's not just random people speculating, it's his closest friends like Mrazek saying that's what he thinks. They think that mindset is a positive. I see it in a much darker light, but ultimately, I'm not saying anything his closest friends haven't said. Necas thinks very highly of his own talent and does not seem to see that the things holding his career back could possibly be his own failings. He's a 20 something, is that really so shocking?

As for the sign and trade, that's how the business works these days. Love the system or hate the system, but if he wants out, that's the f***ing path you get unless you want to wait 2 years. The Canes will give him a trade, but that's what a trade looks like.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

How many player profiles have we seen where his friends talk about how much Necas thinks he can be a star and is being misused? It's an incredibly persistent theme in basically all media about Necas.

I don't think I've seen one that where it says Necas thinks he can be star or wants to be treated like the best player on the team (paraphrasing what someone said a week or so ago). Misused? Yes, definitely. Not a fit for the system? Also yes.

As far as "Isn't willing to play the style of hockey." It could be he isn't capable. You defend Jeff Skinner to the end of the earth and he's the epitome of not playing the style a coach wants, among multiple coaches.

As for the sign and trade, that's how the business works these days. Love the system or hate the system, but if he wants out, that's the f***ing path you get unless you want to wait 2 years. The Canes will give him a trade, but that's what a trade looks like.

The business doesn't work that you have to sign with ANY team the team wants to trade you to. It never has or never does. That's the point. Hanifin only wanted to sign with certain teams during the deadline. Tkachuck wasn't going to sign with any team when he left Calgary. Trouba wanted to be traded and only to NYR (from WPG), etc..etc... There are countless examples of players without trade protection using leverage to go where they want to go. Players do this ALL the time and that's how the business works these days. It's not being a "turd", it's exercising your rights allowed in the CBA.

We got one report from a reputable source he wouldn't extend in CLB. We got a 2nd report from some random twitter account with few followers (and not corroborated by any legit insider) about WPG. So all we know with some certainty, is he was reluctant to extend in CLB. That's it.

I get that fans don't like it when it happens to a player on our team, but it's reality. If a team that he wants to go to doesn't want to pay what the Canes want in a trade, then he's stuck playing on the Canes.

 

[Borsig]

Necas is pretty good. But he isn't Jarvis or Aho good. I'd say he isn't svech good, but svech has kinda sucked recently.

He THINKS hes better than he is, IMO. Or better than he has shown. Or maybe he explodes in an open system like Edmonton. Who knows. But he does think highly of himself.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I’ll add - he SHOULD be better than he is, because the talent is all there.

 

[bleedgreen]

If he gets his role expanded he may still love it here. To be honest, in the early days TT and Aho didn’t really play the system very well. They kind of did what they wanted under some really mild guidelines Rod was obviously pushing. They didn’t dump and chase. They’re not grinders on the forecheck. They don’t always send it back to the point and grind for a rebound. Rod was fine with it because they scored enough and we needed the talent. If Necas is on the first line, putting up pts and being part of a successful pp with us as limited offensively as we seem to be on paper it’s probably not going to matter as much that he doesn’t follow the system strictly.

 

[htdoc]

My only issue is that the rumors and commentary are saying that he doesn’t want to sign a long term deal with the trade partners because he doesn’t know what the long term outlook is for those teams…… yet getting to UFA and taking a 7 year for the most money is not picking the team with the best fit or long term success possibilities… it’s just picking which team you want pretty blindly as no one really knows where a team is going to be 7 years from now…. Arizona a year ago sure looks different today with a new billionaire owner willing to spend….

It’s talking outside of both sides of your mouth to avoid saying the real reason…. Wants to completely dictate everything and pick the spot…. With two years of team control left, you aren’t a UFA yet… so you don’t get full control….

Canes are finding spots that a) want him badly, b) are willing to sign him long term to show their commitment to him, c) are willing to give him the opportunities he says he wants, d) in a couple of rumored landing spots would also play more of the style of hockey he says he needs to show himself in the best light and e) are wanting him to help push their team to the next level of success they think he can provide..

He wants full control to get paid a lot now without any long term commitment, but be in a spot where he can play wide open and score more without any defensive responsibilities so his agent can try to use his higher point totals in a vacuum to then have his UFA choice to try to cash in again. All well and good to want it, but he won’t get it because that doesn’t get enough of a return to the Canes to give up the two years of remaining team control.

He doesn’t have to sign a deal as part of the trade. But that’s the only way he is leaving us in the next couple seasons as it isn’t worth it to us otherwise. So he can play ball with us a bit or he can play a couple more seasons of us demanding he play defense and getting pushed down the lineup as other prospects and signings get ice time ahead of him and have it hurt his point totals for that UFA deal in 2 years. He has rights and the team has rights. Sounds like the team has tried to do right by the player and honor his wishes but the team isn’t going to just give him away and lose value in the deal. Stalemate for now and he remains here until something changes with either sides stances….



We are doing things different with Necas than the Tkachuk situation. Tkachuk gave Calgary a list of teams that he would sign an extension with. Calgary went to get the best deal with those clubs. Tkachuk was enough of a star there was always going to be enough of a return to satisfy Calgary from someone on that list and Florida beat even what they expected to get back. We don’t appear to have asked Necas for a list of teams he will sign an extension with. We are trying to find a set of teams that will offer us what we feel is enough return to give up the player. Not many fit the bill of having the resources we would want, even in 3 way deals. Those that do have what we would accept are getting nixed by Necas. So Necas not enough of a talent to get superstar crazy return and has to be right fit for trading partner. I don’t see anyone offering a 100+ point forward, a high end right shot dman and other picks and prospects for Necas…… if he was that level of player maybe we would have done what Calgary did with Tkachuk and used that approach…,

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

It’s super easy to separate “I’m mad at Necas because the Canes are my favorite hockey team and he’s making this a whole situation for my favorite hockey team” and “what Necas is doing is wrong.”

The first one is part of being a fan, the second one is dumb.

 

[NotOpie]

Necas thinks very highly of his own talent and does not seem to see that the things holding his career back could possibly be his own failings. He's a 20 something, is that really so shocking?

In all fairness, I believe it was Jarvis who said (toward the end of last season), that Marty was the most talented player on the team. Rod, in his podcast appearance with Ovies et al also highlighted how talented he was and only knew that he thought he had a bit more to give.

So Necas isn't the only one who thinks highly of his talent level.

 

[bleedgreen]

In all fairness, I believe it was Jarvis who said (toward the end of last season), that Marty was the most talented player on the team. Rod, in his podcast appearance with Ovies et al also highlighted how talented he was and only knew that he thought he had a bit more to give.

So Necas isn't the only one who thinks highly of his talent level.

Yeah Rod pretty much said he’s the most talented guy and said that’s why he’s tough on him. Said he’s Necas’ biggest fan, and that it’s like having a kid you know has another level to give and you push him to find it. All these guys saying it about him aren’t doing it because Necas is asking them to. He crushed it at the worlds, and all the guys on that team or those who would watch it closely because they care about it know what he’s capable of if they didn’t already.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I think we've all said at times that, even with Aho and Svech, Necas is really the only guy on the team with truly "game-breaking" talent...it's just getting the most out of that talent WITHOUT the costly turnovers that brings him down a few notches to most. He has insane speed, can dangle, can draw off defenders, can shoot, but damn if he doesn't get that horrible tunnel vision that leads to a horrendous turnover-odd-man-rush-GA so often. Is it a "system" fit issue? Or is it just Necas not knowing how to get rid of tunnel vision? Maybe he'll never thrive in our "system" and would elsewhere, or maybe he'd be exactly the same player. As long as we don't lose our ass on a trade, I'm good either keeping him or trying something new

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I think we've all said at times that, even with Aho and Svech, Necas is really the only guy on the team with truly "game-breaking" talent...it's just getting the most out of that talent WITHOUT the costly turnovers that brings him down a few notches to most. He has insane speed, can dangle, can draw off defenders, can shoot, but damn if he doesn't get that horrible tunnel vision that leads to a horrendous turnover-odd-man-rush-GA so often. Is it a "system" fit issue? Or is it just Necas not knowing how to get rid of tunnel vision? Maybe he'll never thrive in our "system" and would elsewhere, or maybe he'd be exactly the same player. As long as we don't lose our ass on a trade, I'm good either keeping him or trying something new

The problem is that the system simply does not accommodate those kinds of mistakes.

The whole point is to gain the zone with the lowest risk, then hold the zone with all five players.

Because that system depends upon everyone getting into the o-zone quickly, a turnover at the blue line has a *much* higher chance of going back the other way.

Now, would it be possible to, say, pair a defensemen with Necas when he's on the ice, whose whole job is to hang back and cover on those cases, to show down the break the other way? Or some other particular way to take advantage? Maybe, I don't know.

But the thing is, because Necas has game breaking speed, he should theoretically have the speed to absolutely excel at recovering the puck behind defenders and finding opportunities. That should be a high percentage play made even higher by Necas's unique talents. Unfortunately, that way isn't as "fun" -- but it's super fun for Jarvy, who is also fast and absolutely embraces that kind of chaos, which is why he's the darling.

Teams win when everyone buys into the concept. Jarvy does, and he scored 33, and Necas doesn't and scored 24.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Necas’ biggest problems are his zone entires. He uses his speed to enter the zone, which is great, but he skates directly down the middle and attempts to dangle through the defenders in front of him. He does not have the hands or the size to make that play with any kind of success.

What he should be doing is using that speed to go around defenders and either go for the wraparound (which we’ve seen him do successfully multiple times) or do as @Navin R Slavin said, beat defenders to the loose puck after dumping it past them. For whatever reason, he seems reluctant to do either of them with any kind of consistency.

And while it’s great that they’re trying to work things out with him and get him signed or whatnot, unless he changes his style of play (and it’s been 5 years now…), he’s still going to be the guy not playing the way the coach wants him to, which will ultimately cause the coach to have less faith in him and therefore get less minutes or be used in less situations.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Honestly, it's all f***ing socialist. Americans seem to despise socialism in their government, but demand it in their sports. Players should be free agents from the day they announce their desire to play in a pro league

And we'll keep doing until the day we finally defeat and remove the parasite owners and their monopoly of the fruits of players' labor

 

[Navin R Slavin]

And we'll keep doing until the day we finally defeat and remove the parasite owners and their monopoly of the fruits of players' labor

All hail Ed O'Bannon and the Student Workers Collective!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

My only issue is that the rumors and commentary are saying that he doesn’t want to sign a long term deal with the trade partners because he doesn’t know what the long term outlook is for those teams…… yet getting to UFA and taking a 7 year for the most money is not picking the team with the best fit or long term success possibilities… it’s just picking which team you want pretty blindly as no one really knows where a team is going to be 7 years from now…. Arizona a year ago sure looks different today with a new billionaire owner willing to spend….

The rumors aren't saying that though.
First, we've had 1 rumor/report from Friedman (I think) that said he didn't want to extend in Columbus at the draft. We assume it's valid because it was from Friedman, even though he's wrong way more than he's right. Then we had a tweet from some poster with like 100 followers who calls himself "Canes insider" that said he wouldn't sign with WPG. We've seen no other reports from legit insiders to corroborate that report.

Secondly, I never saw anything that stated why he wouldn't sign in CLB. I did see some stuff about "wanting it to be the right fit", but that was it.

So the long term outlook of the team you speak of is an assumption fans are making from what I can tell.

It’s talking outside of both sides of your mouth to avoid saying the real reason….
Wants to completely dictate everything and pick the spot…. With two years of team control left, you aren’t a UFA yet… so you don’t get full control….

Again, your assumption. If he indeed is saying he won't sign with more teams than CLB, then he's simply exercising the leverage he has. RFAs do this all the time. He doesn't get full control, but he has some control.

What he can't dictate:
1) Where the Canes can trade him. They can trade him anywhere.
2) If the Canes don't like the terms of any trade (for any reason), then they control him for 2 more years and he'll be a Hurricane for 2 more years.

What he can dictate:
1) What contract he will sign (outside of arbitration ruling). Whether that be in Carolina or with another team. The CBA provides him that right.

Canes are finding spots that a) want him badly, b) are willing to sign him long term to show their commitment to him, c) are willing to give him the opportunities he says he wants, d) in a couple of rumored landing spots would also play more of the style of hockey he says he needs to show himself in the best light and e) are wanting him to help push their team to the next level of success they think he can provide..

The only credible rumor we've seen is CLB at draft day and that Buffalo was interested at the draft, but there was no real information on the make-up of a trade with Buffalo. So it's hard to say the Canes are "finding spots".

He wants full control to get paid a lot now

We've seen no information on his salary ask. In fact, most of the reports have said it wasn't about money, but about fit.

without any long term commitment,

Which is 100% within his rights within the CBA

but be in a spot where he can play wide open and score more without any defensive responsibilities so his agent can try to use his higher point totals in a vacuum to then have his UFA choice to try to cash in again.

Assumption that this is simply about UFA status in 2 years and not about being happy where he's playing. Of course salary is always a consideration, but so is the satisfaction of contributing to the team's success.

All well and good to want it, but he won’t get it because that doesn’t get enough of a return to the Canes to give up the two years of remaining team control.

Yep. Agree. If the Canes don't get the return they want, he'll be under their control for 2 more years. He and his agent know that. If he doesn't want to sign an extension with a team the Canes are trying to trade him to, he'll remain a Hurricane.

He doesn’t have to sign a deal as part of the trade. But that’s the only way he is leaving us in the next couple seasons as it isn’t worth it to us otherwise.

Agree. But he doesn't have to sign ANY deal with ANY team the Canes decide to trade him to.

So he can play ball with us a bit or he can play a couple more seasons of us demanding he play defense and getting pushed down the lineup as other prospects and signings get ice time ahead of him and have it hurt his point totals for that UFA deal in 2 years.

He's never really been pushed down the line-up. If young players come in and perform better than him, then that will be a good problem for Carolina.

He has rights and the team has rights. Sounds like the team has tried to do right by the player and honor his wishes but the team isn’t going to just give him away and lose value in the deal. Stalemate for now and he remains here until something changes with either sides stances….

Yep.

We are doing things different with Necas than the Tkachuk situation. Tkachuk gave Calgary a list of teams that he would sign an extension with. Calgary went to get the best deal with those clubs. Tkachuk was enough of a star there was always going to be enough of a return to satisfy Calgary from someone on that list and Florida beat even what they expected to get back. We don’t appear to have asked Necas for a list of teams he will sign an extension with. We are trying to find a set of teams that will offer us what we feel is enough return to give up the player. Not many fit the bill of having the resources we would want, even in 3 way deals. Those that do have what we would accept are getting nixed by Necas.

We know of 1 potential deal so far from legit source. The rest of this is your speculation.

So Necas not enough of a talent to get superstar crazy return and has to be right fit for trading partner. I don’t see anyone offering a 100+ point forward, a high end right shot dman and other picks and prospects for Necas…… if he was that level of player maybe we would have done what Calgary did with Tkachuk and used that approach…,

Correct. I suspect when/if he's traded, the return will be underwhelming, extension or not.

 

[Lempo]

And we'll keep doing until the day we finally defeat and remove the parasite owners and their monopoly of the fruits of players' labor

The single most confusing thing in the American cinema to me is, why the hell were the prisoners singing this in Air Force One when the demands of the hijacker terrorists were met and the general was walking out of the prison?