NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

[S E P H]

Oh really? Is Illinois in the "Big Five?"

Poor wording on my part, a lot of schools were effected in there as well (educational sector as a whole). But then you have the likes of ASU building a new multimillion dollar sporting complex where hockey was one of the major reasons why. So, I wouldn't say every single one went bankrupt, but it is interesting to note that Illinois has a bigger endowment than ASU does...

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Poor wording on my part, a lot of schools were effected in there as well (educational sector as a whole). But then you have the likes of ASU building a new multimillion dollar sporting complex where hockey was one of the major reasons why. So, I wouldn't say every single one went bankrupt, but it is interesting to note that Illinois has a bigger endowment than ASU does...

ASU started down the road on that long before the pandemic. Their arena project was fully funded via the bond market.

No college that plays Division I athletics, to my knowledge, has gone bankrupt because of the pandemic. Not one.

 

[mk80]

A 12-hour bus ride after a 9-1 loss is punishment enough.

More like 12 minute bus ride to the airport. Though the 5:30am airport arrival to fly back was probably taken that way by the team.

To address the game, the final score was about as I expected it to be against DU. I predicted a 7-1 final going into the game, sure it would have been nice to see it kept closer, but my prediction was thinking we'd get a late goal in the 3rd with the top DU guys warming the bench. So nice to see LU not only get a lead but hold that for a 4-5 minute span. There were some impressive goals for the Pioneers where you just can't help but be wowed. Then there were some where LU didn't help themselves. One in the first period to give DU a 3-1 lead where the Dman slides on a 2v1 and takes out the goaltender, and the back checking players are just coasting and don't get to the trailing players in time, or a handful of goals where a Pioneer wasn't picked up defensively. But it was good to see how players looked and stepped up against DU compared to seeing them run roughshod over the ACHA competition. And watching the fantastic plays made by Denver was impressive. So the end result was slightly over my score prediction, and I definitely expect some additional lopsided losses in the seasons to come too, even in upcoming exhibition games this year. But the final score is not what I'm paying attention to in the 5 games against DU, USAF, and ASU, they are exhibition games. They are measuring stick of where the program is now and where it has to go.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

More like 12 minute bus ride to the airport. Though the 5:30am airport arrival to fly back was probably taken that way by the team.

To address the game, the final score was about as I expected it to be against DU. I predicted a 7-1 final going into the game, sure it would have been nice to see it kept closer, but my prediction was thinking we'd get a late goal in the 3rd with the top DU guys warming the bench. So nice to see LU not only get a lead but hold that for a 4-5 minute span. There were some impressive goals for the Pioneers where you just can't help but be wowed. Then there were some where LU didn't help themselves. One in the first period to give DU a 3-1 lead where the Dman slides on a 2v1 and takes out the goaltender, and the back checking players are just coasting and don't get to the trailing players in time, or a handful of goals where a Pioneer wasn't picked up defensively. But it was good to see how players looked and stepped up against DU compared to seeing them run roughshod over the ACHA competition. And watching the fantastic plays made by Denver was impressive. So the end result was slightly over my score prediction, and I definitely expect some additional lopsided losses in the seasons to come too, even in upcoming exhibition games this year. But the final score is not what I'm paying attention to in the 5 games against DU, USAF, and ASU, they are exhibition games. They are measuring stick of where the program is now and where it has to go.

I'm pretty sure we knew before this game where an ACHA program rates compared to a real college hockey team. They're nowhere close. They need to cut about 12 club clowns and get real players in immediately if they want to win more than five games as a first year Division I program.

Where's that rubber stamp?

 

[JMCx4]

And in other news ...

Sioux Falls Argus Leader: Augustana officially announces Division I hockey program, to play in Midco Arena starting in 2023-24

 

[CrazyEddie20]

And in other news ...

Sioux Falls Argus Leader: Augustana officially announces Division I hockey program, to play in Midco Arena starting in 2023-24

Good for Augustana. Hopefully they can get it all together. I think we'll lose two more teams, at least, from Division I before they play a game, though.

 

[S E P H]

Curious, what are the thoughts about who will be the first California school to go DI in hockey?

Good for Augustana. Hopefully they can get it all together. I think we'll lose two more teams, at least, from Division I before they play a game, though.

The Alaska teams? Robert Morris? It sucks because those schools were legendary, but it was inevitable in the long-run that it wasn't sustainable. I still think he should join the BC league of Canada's NCAA, but I am pretty sure there are some rules that prevent that and Covid will surely stop anything. The biggest loss is UAH not because they were good by any means, but was the only hockey program in the south which could've been a gateway for more schools to potentially join.

 

[Hollywood3]

Curious, what are the thoughts about who will be the first California school to go DI in hockey?


The Alaska teams? Robert Morris? It sucks because those schools were legendary, but it was inevitable in the long-run that it wasn't sustainable. I still think he should join the BC league of Canada's NCAA, but I am pretty sure there are some rules that prevent that and Covid will surely stop anything. The biggest loss is UAH not because they were good by any means, but was the only hockey program in the south which could've been a gateway for more schools to potentially join.

The BCIHL is an independent league and could add teams from anywhere. They had a team from Eastern Washington at one point. They were down to 3 teams but then added new "independent college transfer" teams. One starts this year, and two more next year. The concept is two or more nearby universities or colleges put their players together into one team.

 

[mk80]

I'm pretty sure we knew before this game where an ACHA program rates compared to a real college hockey team. They're nowhere close. They need to cut about 12 club clowns and get real players in immediately if they want to win more than five games as a first year Division I program.

Where's that rubber stamp?

I think either I'm not making my point clear about the exhibition games, or you missing it.

Anyway that's a topic for another thread. Like any other school the roster would sort itself out. They have the first 8 guys. Of those, the forwards are mainly role players, so needless to say it would have to be fleshed out a bit more. They'll have another class of recruits coming in, and I would imagine with an official announcement pick up some transfers, so it'll get there with time.

And in other news ...

Sioux Falls Argus Leader: Augustana officially announces Division I hockey program, to play in Midco Arena starting in 2023-24

I like that the arena will be a more intimate place. It will be interesting to see who they hire for the coaching staff and the arena construction updates will be fun to follow.

Curious, what are the thoughts about who will be the first California school to go DI in hockey?

Any school can be the first in the region as soon as they check the boxes that are needed for college hockey. Money, Title IX, and a suitable arena. An optional fourth is having an administration that desires hockey. For a lot of schools in California in the urban areas, land is especially hard to come by for an arena, which adds an added challenge to checking that box.

The biggest talk of NCAA D1 hockey I've heard in the west, has been from Oregon, and UNLV which are both of their ACHA teams saying, "well we would love to be NCAA D1 someday." One of the UNLV things I read said there AD told them no it wouldn't be happening. That AD has left, but it's doubtful the new AD is any more welcoming to the idea. Unless Bill Foley felt extremely generous or someone tied to the program hits a lot of jackpots at the local casinos I don't see it happening for UNLV. Really the same situation for Oregon, if Phil Knight/Nike really wants a Ducks hockey team then they get one, but I think if a "Knight Hockey Center" were in the cards it would have been done long before now especially considering for a span of like 10 years Nike owned Bauer and was in the hockey equipment business directly.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Curious, what are the thoughts about who will be the first California school to go DI in hockey?


The Alaska teams? Robert Morris? It sucks because those schools were legendary, but it was inevitable in the long-run that it wasn't sustainable. I still think he should join the BC league of Canada's NCAA, but I am pretty sure there are some rules that prevent that and Covid will surely stop anything. The biggest loss is UAH not because they were good by any means, but was the only hockey program in the south which could've been a gateway for more schools to potentially join.

Speculating about who will be first to start a real college hockey program in California is a masturbatory exercise. I really don't care which California school starts a Division I program as long as they start a women's program to go with it, fully fund the programs, and commit to college hockey in the long term. What MK80 said above is pretty much right and parallels what I've been saying and telling the club clowns and pie-in-the-sky fanboi expansionist know-it-alls here and elsewhere for years - the preconditions have to be met. No rink? No Title IX compliance? No endowment money for a rink/staff/schollies? No program.

Robert Morris, with one NCAA tournament appearance, was hardly legendary. UAA and UAF are casualties of the college hockey realignment that began when Rythmic Slapping Sounds State
started a real college hockey team and the Big Ten broke off into its own conference. Without the old CCHA and WCHA, neither team could find a home in a conference. Add in the Alaskan economy being dependent on oil, which hasn't been a great business lately, and those two schools are F'd. And again, with four total (one vacated) NCAA Division I tournament appearances between them, the Alaska schools aren't "legendary," they're perennial also-rans.

I think UAA, UAF, UAH, RMU, and two to four other schools will drop off the Division I scene within five years. Possibly some of the lower end Atlantic Hockey schools. Possibly some of the Division III play-up schools. I wouldn't be surprised to see RPI and Union leave Division I. But that's just informed speculation.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

It's a shame that Lindenwood seems to have done nothing to promote two home games against an NCAA Division I team. They didn't have a photographer there, there are no box scores available, and I'd imagine that there were hardly any fans in attendance.

If they were serious about building a real college hockey program, they'd have promoted the crap out of it. Had the Blues get the word out to their ticket base. Tell St. Louis area fans, "hey, come see what NCAA hockey looks like."

Instead... nothing.

Guess that rubber stamp is still missing.

 

[mk80]

It's a shame that Lindenwood seems to have done nothing to promote two home games against an NCAA Division I team. They didn't have a photographer there, there are no box scores available, and I'd imagine that there were hardly any fans in attendance.

If they were serious about building a real college hockey program, they'd have promoted the crap out of it. Had the Blues get the word out to their ticket base. Tell St. Louis area fans, "hey, come see what NCAA hockey looks like."

Instead... nothing.

Guess that rubber stamp is still missing.

Attendance: Overall could have been better. Saturday topped out somewhere between 650-700 tickets scanned in. Sunday was very low around 250. Those figures are what I heard, I don't have anything official on that other than word of mouth.
Photographer: Yes, there was a photographer at both games.
Promotion: The promotion of the two games was there, from the University, arena, team accounts. Stories, picture, and video were submitted to all local news stations. Only coverage was picked up by some radio hosts with Lindenwood connections, and some of the local hockey personalities. KMOV, KSDK, Fox2, Post Dispatch were basically par for the course in St. Louis sports coverage of "if your event is not downtown St. Louis, and not Cards, Blues, Mizzou, SLU, it's not getting coverage." Blues had their home opener the same weekend, so as expected they focused on that.

Lindenwood's promotion of all athletic events is certainly one area that has always needed improvement. That includes even the top sports on campus such as football, and basketball. They have at least been better about promoting football this season, and thus have been averaging 3k-3500 for all home games so far this season which is about a 2k jump in attendance at Hunter Stadium from past seasons.

So there was some promotion about the Air Force games from the main athletics, and university social media accounts. But not to the extent as there maybe would/could/should have been, certainly not as much as the "Community Day" football game and carnival on campus that same Saturday. It's one area that Lindenwood like I said has always needed improvement on regardless of the hockey conversation. Finally in 2021 you can actually buy a ticket to football online opposed to previously only being sold at the door for example.

I've said before Lindenwood would have to build a fanbase from scratch locally for hockey. Men's ice hockey can be a perfect niche sport for them in the local college athletic landscape in and around St. Louis, but whether the school maximizes the potential remains to be seen. The school certainly did not use the potential in the Air Force weekend.

 

[JMCx4]

Attendance: Overall could have been better. Saturday topped out somewhere between 650-700 tickets scanned in. Sunday was very low around 250. Those figures are what I heard, I don't have anything official on that other than word of mouth.
Photographer: Yes, there was a photographer at both games.
Promotion: The promotion of the two games was there, from the University, arena, team accounts. Stories, picture, and video were submitted to all local news stations. Only coverage was picked up by some radio hosts with Lindenwood connections, and some of the local hockey personalities. KMOV, KSDK, Fox2, Post Dispatch were basically par for the course in St. Louis sports coverage of "if your event is not downtown St. Louis, and not Cards, Blues, Mizzou, SLU, it's not getting coverage." Blues had their home opener the same weekend, so as expected they focused on that. ...

Attendance: There was no "scanning" for the Sunday exhibition vs. Air Force. Arriving fans were asked if they had e-tickets, then handed carnival style tickets which were never asked for once past the table at the bottom of the rink stairs.
Photographer: I can confirm that a professional-looking photographer was present @ Centene Ice on Sunday when AFA were in town. For at least one period, he was sharing the hole in the rink glass with a gentleman snapping photos of the Air Force goalie with an iPad (probably the player's Dad or possibly grandfather).
Promotion: I will go to my grave (no matter how far off) continuing to believe that no amount of hockey team/league promotion will ever recruit significant numbers of St. Louis area fans to follow & support anything other than an NHL franchise. There's simply no other widespread tradition nor even recent momentum of the game at levels above youth hockey that will change the general perception that hockey below the NHL ain't worth the price of admission. Shame, that, but that's how the puck rolls here.

 

[mk80]

Attendance: There was no "scanning" for the Sunday exhibition vs. Air Force. Arriving fans were asked if they had e-tickets, then handed carnival style tickets which were never asked for once past the table at the bottom of the rink stairs.

Interesting, I saw some people had those tickets on Sunday, I just figured they were people who bought tickets at the door or had trouble with their online tickets.

 

[JMCx4]

Interesting, I saw some people had those tickets on Sunday, I just figured they were people who bought tickets at the door or had trouble with their online tickets.

The guy barely glanced at my phone, and I saw no scanner. Maybe I can put in for a refund.

 

[JMCx4]

It's a shame that Lindenwood seems to have done nothing to promote two home games against an NCAA Division I team. They didn't have a photographer there, there are no box scores available, and I'd imagine that there were hardly any fans in attendance. ...

Why publish box scores, when you can get your opponent to? Well, at least one of the two ...

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Attendance: There was no "scanning" for the Sunday exhibition vs. Air Force. Arriving fans were asked if they had e-tickets, then handed carnival style tickets which were never asked for once past the table at the bottom of the rink stairs.
Photographer: I can confirm that a professional-looking photographer was present @ Centene Ice on Sunday when AFA were in town. For at least one period, he was sharing the hole in the rink glass with a gentleman snapping photos of the Air Force goalie with an iPad (probably the player's Dad or possibly grandfather).
Promotion: I will go to my grave (no matter how far off) continuing to believe that no amount of hockey team/league promotion will ever recruit significant numbers of St. Louis area fans to follow & support anything other than an NHL franchise. There's simply no other widespread tradition nor even recent momentum of the game at levels above youth hockey that will change the general perception that hockey below the NHL ain't worth the price of admission. Shame, that, but that's how the puck rolls here.

Well, any "professional looking" photog sure wasn't shooting for Lindenwood athletics. How do I know this? Look at the photos used with their "game stories" on the athletics website. In one, there's an official with an ACHA crest on his sweater. No NCAA Division I team is going to play a game, even an exhibition, without NCAA Division I officials. The other photo accompanying the game story is a generic shot of one of their ankle benders coming out of the bench, seemingly for a warm-up.

As for what you and MK80 said about promotion, then why even bother having an NCAA Division I hockey program? Why keep blowing that horn in front of a deaf audience? If you don't make the effort, if you don't try and promote it, if you just throw up your hands and say, "No one comes to non-NHL hockey in St. Louis" and then do nothing... no one comes. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just ask Randall "The Chill Will Be Here For Years to Come, I Know Because I'm a Hockey Reporter!" Ritchey how that worked out.

The whole "No one pays attention to hockey" BS is tiresome, no matter what league/level it is. Teams that promote, that build an atmosphere, that build a fanbase, that create something, will draw.

Teams where those in charge throw up their hands won't.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Why publish box scores, when you can get your opponent to? Well, at least one of the two ... AF_Lindenwood_box_2.pdf

Because they're the home team - they're in charge of keeping statistics.

 

[JMCx4]

Because they're the home team - they're in charge of keeping statistics.

This note near bottom right of the Box Score linked in the AFA game summary: "This report has been checked and verified against the Official American Collegiate Hockey Association Game Report." Sounds to me like someone associated with Lindenwood met your elevated expectations ... for the Sunday exhibition, anyway ...

ETA: Same for the 10/23/2021 exhibition. Thank you, HockeyTech, for using a simple file naming scheme.

 

[JMCx4]

Well, any "professional looking" photog sure wasn't shooting for Lindenwood athletics. How do I know this? Look at the photos used with their "game stories" on the athletics website. In one, there's an official with an ACHA crest on his sweater. No NCAA Division I team is going to play a game, even an exhibition, without NCAA Division I officials. The other photo accompanying the game story is a generic shot of one of their ankle benders coming out of the bench, seemingly for a warm-up. ...

I can attest that the on-ice officials for the Sunday 10/24/21 AFA @ LIN exhibition were an ACHA crew, because I recognized all four of them from previous Lindenwood games. So your claim of: "No NCAA Division I team is going to play a game, even an exhibition, without NCAA Division I officials." has been made moot by those scofflaws from the U.S. Force Academy. I hope there is a formal investigation to follow.

 

[mk80]

Well, any "professional looking" photog sure wasn't shooting for Lindenwood athletics. How do I know this? Look at the photos used with their "game stories" on the athletics website. In one, there's an official with an ACHA crest on his sweater. No NCAA Division I team is going to play a game, even an exhibition, without NCAA Division I officials. The other photo accompanying the game story is a generic shot of one of their ankle benders coming out of the bench, seemingly for a warm-up.

Because they're the home team - they're in charge of keeping statistics.

This note near bottom right of the Box Score linked in the AFA game summary: "This report has been checked and verified against the Official American Collegiate Hockey Association Game Report." Sounds to me like someone associated with Lindenwood met your elevated expectations ... for the Sunday exhibition, anyway ...

ETA: Same for the 10/23/2021 exhibition. Thank you, HockeyTech, for using a simple file naming scheme.

I can attest that the on-ice officials for the Sunday 10/24/21 AFA @ LIN exhibition were an ACHA crew, because I recognized all four of them from previous Lindenwood games. So your claim of: "No NCAA Division I team is going to play a game, even an exhibition, without NCAA Division I officials." has been made moot by those scofflaws from the U.S. Force Academy. I hope there is a formal investigation to follow.

Stats were kept by Lindenwood for both games, as @JMCx4 points out Air Force has included the game reports in their recaps. You can also find the full box scores through the ACHA website, their scoreboard section is powered by HockeyTech. You can also access the game reports used by Air Force at these links.
Saturday Game: American Collegiate Hockey Association (ACHA)
Sunday Game: American Collegiate Hockey Association (ACHA)

The crew of referees were a crew that works regional NCAA/ACHA, NA3HL/NAHL/NAPHL games. Again as JMC noted, they have worked other LU games before. In addition a MIHOA Board of Directors member responsible for evaluating officials was on site for both games.

Photos from the series were provided to the team by the photographer, and they have been using those in social media content. But I doubt those have been put into the photo database on the backend of the website, photos for the game recaps posted to the LU Athletics site would definitely have been generic ones from earlier home games. Strangely you can catch other NCAA teams doing the same thing (across multiple sports), but to stick with some hockey examples, BGSU obviously used a photo from a game against Michigan for a recap against Miami (OH) Falcons Battle Redhawks To Friday Night Tie - Bowling Green State University Athletics
Penn State included a photo against LIU for a recap from a game against Canisius. That's a home game too where you'd also expect them to have photos on hand from that game. Men's Hockey Falls to Canisius, 4-1 - Penn State University Athletics

So the games were played without Atlantic Hockey officials, but Air Force didn't seem to have a problem with that. Stats were kept in real time by Lindenwood. And even larger programs than LU use non game specific photos from time to time.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Stats were kept by Lindenwood for both games, as @JMCx4 points out Air Force has included the game reports in their recaps. You can also find the full box scores through the ACHA website, their scoreboard section is powered by HockeyTech. You can also access the game reports used by Air Force at these links.
Saturday Game: American Collegiate Hockey Association (ACHA)
Sunday Game: American Collegiate Hockey Association (ACHA)

The crew of referees were a crew that works regional NCAA/ACHA, NA3HL/NAHL/NAPHL games. Again as JMC noted, they have worked other LU games before. In addition a MIHOA Board of Directors member responsible for evaluating officials was on site for both games.

Photos from the series were provided to the team by the photographer, and they have been using those in social media content. But I doubt those have been put into the photo database on the backend of the website, photos for the game recaps posted to the LU Athletics site would definitely have been generic ones from earlier home games. Strangely you can catch other NCAA teams doing the same thing (across multiple sports), but to stick with some hockey examples, BGSU obviously used a photo from a game against Michigan for a recap against Miami (OH) Falcons Battle Redhawks To Friday Night Tie - Bowling Green State University Athletics
Penn State included a photo against LIU for a recap from a game against Canisius. That's a home game too where you'd also expect them to have photos on hand from that game. Men's Hockey Falls to Canisius, 4-1 - Penn State University Athletics

So the games were played without Atlantic Hockey officials, but Air Force didn't seem to have a problem with that. Stats were kept in real time by Lindenwood. And even larger programs than LU use non game specific photos from time to time.

As long as they were legit NCAA Division I officials, then that's fine. I'm a Level 4 official, I work a wide variety of games myself. I know how it works.

It's lazy on the part of the SID and the photog to not have at least a couple photos ready to go for the game story on the school's athletic site. Period. End of story. It's not like they have to go to a dark room and develop and work the emulsion and make prints and use a scanner. Asking for three photos from the biggest home game the program has ever played isn't too big an ask, but at Lindenwood, it must be as hard as finding the rubber stamp!

 

[Ridge1982]

Andy Strickland promoted the Air Force games hard. If or when they go to D1, I hope Lindenwood strikes a deal with Bally Sports Midwest to broadcast the games. They really should've done it years ago. Put yourself out there and the rest of the region will come and support you. SLU was dogshit in the 80's, but they put their games on KPLR and the rest was history.

 

[JMCx4]

Andy Strickland promoted the Air Force games hard. If or when they go to D1, I hope Lindenwood strikes a deal with Bally Sports Midwest to broadcast the games. They really should've done it years ago. Put yourself out there and the rest of the region will come and support you. SLU was dogshit in the 80's, but they put their games on KPLR and the rest was history.

Andy Strickland isn't exactly the most popular hockey-related broadcaster around Metro STL, but I'm happy to hear he was spreading the news about the AFA-LU exhibitions. As for Billiken's hockey, St. Louis U's NCAA DI (CCHA) history ended on May 22, 1979. I hope that's not part of the Bills' hockey "history" you wish the Lindenwood men's program to emulate?

 

[Ridge1982]

Andy Strickland isn't exactly the most popular hockey-related broadcaster around Metro STL, but I'm happy to hear he was spreading the news about the AFA-LU exhibitions. As for Billiken's hockey, St. Louis U's NCAA DI (CCHA) history ended on May 22, 1979. I hope that's not part of the Bills' hockey "history" you wish the Lindenwood men's program to emulate?

I'm talking about the basketball program.