Salary Cap: Nazem “Suspension” Kadri – Cap casualty?

[Daisy Jane]

IMO Jake is gone, unless he takes a haircut.

i think so too, but i'm just saying for accuracy it's those two.

 

[Its not your fault]

That's a complete non sequitur. Try again?

I never said what Kadri did was okay but if your dog craps on the carpet it's still your dog. You teach it not to and or you pay more attention to a situation that got out of control honestly for the money they make they should be ripping each other's faces off and the ones that can't hack it should play in the 2nd best league. They are censoring everything. It is happening slowly it's okay I get it so no what all 3 players did was wrong. The refs got sespended then again I bet they grew up and seen some real shit on the carpet. This is still all tame but it's the direction they want to go in.

 

[Jeypic]

Fact: everyone complained that the following:

Bozak, Tyler, van Reimsdyk, James, Gardiner, Jake

had left (or will leave) the team without maximizing their potential returns for the team.

This is not fact. This is hindsight.

I never complained. I agreed with management that those players were best utilized for a cup run. Now we didn’t win the cup, so it’s easy to make that argument now... but trading away assets that make your team better right before a playoff run sends a horrible message to the players.

Teams buy assets to make there team better for playoff runs, they don’t sell them.

 

[Daisy Jane]

This is not fact. This is hindsight.

I never complained. I agreed with management that those players were best utilized for a cup run. Now we didn’t win the cup, so it’s easy to make that argument now... but trading away assets that make your team better right before a playoff run sends a horrible message to the players.

Teams buy assets to make there team better for playoff runs, they don’t sell them.

the majority of this board gets angry that we didn't get any true returns for any one of those players. most people said that if the moves were done in the summer (or even by christmas) - then it made sense to trade them - adjust for the loss, and then move forward, but by deadline day it was too late. that's not hindsight, that's what happened. now you might not have complained/etc - but the fact is it's not like everyone was all "yippie skippie!" when it happened and then "grr, arrrgg!" when we lost.

there are teams - that actually do both. they trade some pieces, then they buy other assets. it doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

[Jeypic]

the majority of this board gets angry that we didn't get any true returns for any one of those players. most people said that if the moves were done in the summer (or even by christmas) - then it made sense to trade them - adjust for the loss, and then move forward, but by deadline day it was too late. that's not hindsight, that's what happened. now you might not have complained/etc - but the fact is it's not like everyone was all "yippie skippie!" when it happened and then "grr, arrrgg!" when we lost.

there are teams - that actually do both. they trade some pieces, then they buy other assets. it doesn't have to be one or the other.

The majority of this board would not have been angry if the true return was a Stanley cup.

Should we add Muzzin’s name next to jvr, bozack, and Gardiner’s? His contract is expiring.. we better not lose him for nothing!

No. We ice the best team we can, and try to win the Stanley cup.

 

[garce]

Lot of reckless play was being allowed the other way. I get the distinct feeling that given what was being allowed the other way, Kadri understood that turnabout was fair play. It wasn't. But it wasn't reckless in the context of playoffs hockey where refs have allowed turnabout.

His challenge was wrong. So were any number of challenges by the other club that weren't called. But "a reckless run"? Doesn't fit the definition. Kadri retaliated so he obviously knew what he was doing and he did it to stand up for his club.

Reckless officiating? Now we're talking.

While I understand that there can be a different standard of calls in the post season there is no game anytime that Kadris hit on Debrusk was not a major and a suspension. Premeditated and outlandishly blatant. Very difficult for me to believe it was purely a reaction to Debrusks crap hit on Marleau and not at all related to the previous interactions between the two.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The majority of this board would not have been angry if the true return was a Stanley cup.

Should we add Muzzin’s name next to jvr, bozack, and Gardiner’s? His contract is expiring.. we better not lose him for nothing!

No. We ice the best team we can, and try to win the Stanley cup.

yeah, i bet there will be people who are saying that Muzzin should be addressed before deadline, because if this team doesn't show it can't get out of the first round vs. Boston then what.

not to mention - that I don't think having Kadri on the team is the best team possible for us winning the Stanley for the very simply fact - is that I don't trust him not to do something that would result in him getting suspended and jeopardizing this teams chances. the fact that Nazem Kadri also has a lot of great qualities that i've mentioned several times makes him the perfect candidate to trade, get other assets back that can help us win.

 

[Jeypic]

yeah, i bet there will be people who are saying that Muzzin should be addressed before deadline, because if this team doesn't show it can't get out of the first round vs. Boston then what.

not to mention - that I don't think having Kadri on the team is the best team possible for us winning the Stanley for the very simply fact - is that I don't trust him not to do something that would result in him getting suspended and jeopardizing this teams chances. the fact that Nazem Kadri also has a lot of great qualities that i've mentioned several times makes him the perfect candidate to trade, get other assets back that can help us win.

If we can get out of the first round vs boston.. there’s a good chance we’d be competing in the Stanley cup finals like boston.

(We were likely about a kadri away from getting out of the first round vs boston btw..)

 

[Daisy Jane]

If we can get out of the first round vs boston.. there’s a good chance we’d be competing in the Stanley cup finals like boston.

(We were likely about a kadri away from getting out of the first round vs boston btw..)

i would argue we were a penalty killing centre away from getting out of the first round.

 

[notDatsyuk]

i would argue we were a penalty killing centre away from getting out of the first round.

Leo Komarov.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Leo Komarov.

Then we'd be a 47 goal center away from getting out of the first round.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Then we'd be a 47 goal center away from getting out of the first round.

Kadri scored 54 goals last year?

 

[ToneDog]

Leo Komarov.

Nope, maybe Ryan O'Reilly.

 

[weems]

i would argue we were a penalty killing centre away from getting out of the first round.

I would argue we were a better coach who's able to be creative, make quick ingame adjustments and not play favorites away from getting out of the first round.

After the series Boston was basically laughing at the fact we didnt change up our PK and that we didnt play our #1 PP unit more.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

we didnt change up our PK

Babcock allows Boston's top line to go against Hyman on one knee.

Very questionable.

Needless to day Bergeron won 80% of the draws.

Terrible.

I want Top 6 Cs who PK. It is a team game and in the playoffs you need a strong PK. Having 22 million dollars of C on the bench as they watch Boston's top line feast on us felt odd.

More importantly Nylander is our Derozan. He needs to be moved to get more balance on this team.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I would argue we were a better coach who's able to be creative, make quick ingame adjustments and not play favorites away from getting out of the first round.

After the series Boston was basically laughing at the fact we didnt change up our PK and that we didnt play our #1 PP unit more.

well our penalty kill in the playoffs was horrible the last 3 years , so even if Babcock changed it up, i doubt it would have been better (though i have my issues with him i'm not defending it)

 

[Bluelines]

Babcock allows Boston's top line to go against Hyman on one knee.

Very questionable.

Needless to day Bergeron won 80% of the draws.

Terrible.

I want Top 6 Cs who PK. It is a team game and in the playoffs you need a strong PK. Having 22 million dollars of C on the bench as they watch Boston's top line feast on us felt odd.

More importantly Nylander is our Derozan. He needs to be moved to get more balance on this team.

As far as I know Marner and Tavares both had 2 knees, I hear those guys are kinda good eh?

 

[Bluelines]

I would argue we were a better coach who's able to be creative, make quick ingame adjustments and not play favorites away from getting out of the first round.

After the series Boston was basically laughing at the fact we didnt change up our PK and that we didnt play our #1 PP unit more.

I would argue tunnel vision fans who have a burning bias to throw Babcock under the bus, make them selves look foolish when they don't consider how elite Boston's PP is doing in this years playoffs, against just about every opponent they have faced.

Maybe its not a Babcock thing, maybe its a Boston thing... unless Babcock is the HC of St Lou (68.4%) and Carolina (53.3%)?

Boston is kinda a good team.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=penaltyKillPctg

 

[ULF_55]

I would argue tunnel vision fans who have a burning bias to throw Babcock under the bus, make them selves look foolish when they don't consider how elite Boston's PP is doing in this years playoffs, against just about every opponent they have faced.

Maybe its not a Babcock thing, maybe its a Boston thing... unless Babcock is the HC of St Lou (68.4%) and Carolina (53.3%)?

Boston is kinda a good team.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=penaltyKillPctg

while I can't disagree isn't Babcock the highest paid coach for a reason or is that a myth?

you don't always get what you pay for.

perhaps the problem was a player who disqualified himself from the contests.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I would argue tunnel vision fans who have a burning bias to throw Babcock under the bus, make them selves look foolish when they don't consider how elite Boston's PP is doing in this years playoffs, against just about every opponent they have faced.

Maybe its not a Babcock thing, maybe its a Boston thing... unless Babcock is the HC of St Lou (68.4%) and Carolina (53.3%)?

Boston is kinda a good team.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?aggre...filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=penaltyKillPctg

no one is saying that Boston isn't a good team, but Babcock decided to play severely injured players and didn't adjust a lot of things when it was evident it was a problem in the regular season - and compounded in the playoffs. the Leafs have had the worst penalty kill in the playoffs 3 years in a row, and historically bad this year. that's stating the obvious - not throwing someone under the bus.

 

[ShaneFalco]

How anyone can defend Babcock at this point, especially after this year's playoffs is beyond me. Absolute shit show
Only thing his supporters hang on to is what he did in the past

 

[ShaneFalco]

Moving forward, his role needs more clarity. The first question might actually be whether he is going to remain at center. Kadri is clearly one of the team’s six best forwards, but he is not on their top two lines. There hasn’t been any experimenting to try moving him up on Matthews or Tavares’ wing despite Kadri possessing traits the team evidently lacks in their top-six forward group — namely, the ability to work the walls, be physical, and bring a goal scorer’s touch. Their top two left wingers are Zach Hyman and Andreas Johnsson – not exactly a position of strength, either.
If he’s going to remain at center, what is his role going to be? If he’s going to be in a soft scoring role as he was last year, he needs some linemates that can produce. Otherwise, he can handle a checking role with defensive, grinder-type players as he did with Leo Komarov and Michael Grabner for the 2015-16 season. What makes that tough: If Kadri takes the tough matchups, it’s hard to picture enough ice time to go around between his line, the Tavares line, and Matthews line.
Without running around in circles here, what it will ultimately come down to is either getting Kadri some offensive linemates or moving him up on the wing.

Toronto Maple Leafs Season Review, Part Two: Nazem Kadri, William Nylander and the latest trade rumours | Maple Leafs Hotstove

 

[Gary Nylund]

Moving forward, his role needs more clarity. The first question might actually be whether he is going to remain at center. Kadri is clearly one of the team’s six best forwards, but he is not on their top two lines. There hasn’t been any experimenting to try moving him up on Matthews or Tavares’ wing despite Kadri possessing traits the team evidently lacks in their top-six forward group — namely, the ability to work the walls, be physical, and bring a goal scorer’s touch. Their top two left wingers are Zach Hyman and Andreas Johnsson – not exactly a position of strength, either.
If he’s going to remain at center, what is his role going to be? If he’s going to be in a soft scoring role as he was last year, he needs some linemates that can produce. Otherwise, he can handle a checking role with defensive, grinder-type players as he did with Leo Komarov and Michael Grabner for the 2015-16 season. What makes that tough: If Kadri takes the tough matchups, it’s hard to picture enough ice time to go around between his line, the Tavares line, and Matthews line.
Without running around in circles here, what it will ultimately come down to is either getting Kadri some offensive linemates or moving him up on the wing.

Toronto Maple Leafs Season Review, Part Two: Nazem Kadri, William Nylander and the latest trade rumours | Maple Leafs Hotstove

That's the key right there (to me anyway) and those paying attention to the Raptors have been shown everything you could want a head coach to be which is basically the opposite of what we've seen from Babcock.

 

[ShaneFalco]

That's the key right there (to me anyway) and those paying attention to the Raptors have been shown everything you could want a head coach to be which is basically the opposite of what we've seen from Babcock.

Yeah far too rigid and not willing to think outside of his template lines

 

[Bluelines]

no one is saying that Boston isn't a good team, but Babcock decided to play severely injured players and didn't adjust a lot of things when it was evident it was a problem in the regular season - and compounded in the playoffs. the Leafs have had the worst penalty kill in the playoffs 3 years in a row, and historically bad this year. that's stating the obvious - not throwing someone under the bus.

... we take Hyman off that line his option were? Well we have Nylander... that sounds like an excellent idea put Nylander up against Bergeron - Marchment - Pasta ... yep that should go grrrreat! Oh we could put Marleau up there, he had a stellar season, right? AJ? Maybe, we take the one guy who was scoring (1G, 3A) and put him in a match up role against the perfection line... yep we neuter ourselves and create a gap on the one line that was scoring... awesome strategy there Coach. So what were Babcock's options again?

Remember a few years ago when Yzermen was playing with no knee cartilage and scored that iconic goal? Was the coach at the time wrong? Remember a few years ago when Bergeron was playing with pulled rib cartilage, was his coach wrong? It's the playoffs, people play hurt, in fact every player is dealing with some sort of injury. If the Dr says the player is good to go, who is Babcock to question the Dr? It's not Babcocks job to assess player health.

People like to say, Babcock did this and that wrong, but I have yet to see one person link a specific event to one of his poor calls. People like to think if he did it my way, the results would have been better, but hey who is ever wrong in their own fantasy.

Hey hate on Babcock because he is stubborn, hate on him because he waxes poetic about something inane, hate on him cause you don't like his face but hating on a guy because our PK sucked , when 3 out of 4 teams that faced Boston had horrid PK's too, shows the lack of critical thinking in this fan base. If 3 out of 4 teams failed, that would suggest that Boston is just that good, not that Babcock is just that bad. In simple terms , its not a bad thing to research and base your opinion on this little thing called facts but hey when has Leaf nation ever used facts in a debate?