OT: Nats, Wiz, O's, Ravens, Terps, Navy, Gtown, Mystics, Golf, Summer 2024 (Paris Olympics 2024 as well)

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't think it's about what's competitive in the marketplace or whatever, but what it takes to draw some of these other players back eventually. And retain the ones who think about jumping while still keeping the PGA Tour structure and other traditions in place.

I expect Mickelson to crow about how he was right and the PGA had the ability to pay players more, but what they're doing might be a financial stretch or the product of new sponsorships or fundraising rather than the PGA sandbagging on prize pools.

He has already made the Tour move on some major points…..look at the massive prize increases this has forced In short order. Now changes to the structure of the top player‘s schedules and commitment requirements…curious when we will see image rights concessions and some other things he pushed….

 

[Ridley Simon]

That’s a sour grapes response…..like Colin Montgomery, he‘s still one of the European greats….no sense in disrespecting a guy so widely respected IMO.

Meh.

He’s being a prick in his response. Doesn’t seem thoughtful at all, but a lot more “sour grapes” as you put it.

I’ve never had an ax to grind with him, but these guys taking pot shots at each other is annoying. Both sides.

Focus on yourself. That’s what golf is all about anyway. I stand by my comment

 

[g00n]

Petty squabbling and sniping among posh millionaires wears thin quickly unless someone starts throwing haymakers.

 

[g00n]

He has already made the Tour move on some major points…..look at the massive prize increases this has forced In short order. Now changes to the structure of the top player‘s schedules and commitment requirements…curious when we will see image rights concessions and some other things he pushed….

But before this the sentiment seemed to be the PGA Tour was somehow screwing the players or holding out on them. Forcing them to react to losing their top stars doesn't make that true. Nor does it automatically make the rival tour a competitive product in terms of viewership.

This is about money and nothing else. And rich guys are scrambling.

The Saudis reportedly have practically unlimited funds to keep this going, even at losses that would be catastrophic to any other business.

That's a lot of leverage against the PGA but it's also potentially ruinous to all other competition including the PGA Tour. They understand this and are trying to at least stop the bleeding by upping the ante.

Even so, the reality is the Saudis could probably lure away every single PGA Tour player if they wanted to, just by waving cash at them. Then the PGA Tour dies. Is that a good thing?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The sentiment

But before this the sentiment seemed to be the PGA Tour was somehow screwing the players or holding out on them. Forcing them to react to losing their top stars doesn't make that true. Nor does it automatically make the rival tour a competitive product in terms of viewership.

This is about money and nothing else. And rich guys are scrambling.

The Saudis reportedly have practically unlimited funds to keep this going, even at losses that would be catastrophic to any other business.

That's a lot of leverage against the PGA but it's also potentially ruinous to all other competition including the PGA Tour. They understand this and are trying to at least stop the bleeding by upping the ante.

Even so, the reality is the Saudis could probably lure away every single PGA Tour player if they wanted to, just by waving cash at them. Then the PGA Tour dies. Is that a good thing?

come on dude….you think the Tour is reacting suddenly with massive changes because it’s all phony bologna? They’re reacting because they realize they must to correct the perceived issues Tour players have, or they may just keep bleeding talent. They have started by immediately addressing some of the biggest issues.

The PGA Tour isn’t dying….that's just silly. What’s more likely is LIV dies and these (younger) guys all come bouncing back. I’d prefer to see co-existence….more golf tournaments is better for this fan of the game.

 

[g00n]

Westwood quoted. Talks also about the PGA Tour getting their "comeuppance".

This is just a stupid, vindictive take by LW that twists an effect to make it appear as the motive.

The PGA Tour has always upped the prize money when the sport has experienced a boom based on new, marketable talent like Tiger or Arnie. To think they were really trying to draw away INTL players and "hog all the world ranking points" is moronic. The money came in because of Tiger, and the PGA distributed it as the game and consumer base expanded. Did the same expansion occur in Europe, Lee?

Golf in Europe - VISION 2020

thefutureofgolf.eu

A few years old but relevant.

R&A's Golf Around the World Report - National Golf Foundation

There are almost 39,000 golf courses worldwide, with a global reach into 209 of the world’s 249 countries, according to the “Golf Around the World” report published by the R&A and based on NGF research.

www.ngf.org

And since those reports golf has boomed again due to COVID, but may correct in the near future. Here are the global numbers for that expansion:

StackPath

www.golfcourseindustry.com

GB & Ireland have seen a good jump in % increase, but the overall market is still only about 20% of the US.

The US is easily the biggest golf market. The PGA Tour is the US's premier tour. It's about market base. But Lee Westwood and Sergio Garcia are Euro Ryder Cup lifers who hate the USA and the PGA Tour, and they want to see it burn.

The PGA Tour is not "stealing ideas", as these gloating simps are crowing about. They're making the equivalent of a matching offer to prevent others from jumping ship. If they were stealing the idea they'd convert their entire business model to mirror LIV.

The sentiment

come on dude….you think the Tour is reacting suddenly with massive changes because it’s all phony bologna? They’re reacting because they realize they must to correct the perceived issues Tour players have, or they may just keep bleeding talent.

The PGA Tour isn’t dying….that's just silly. What’s more likely is LIV dies and these (younger) guys all come bouncing back. I’d prefer to see co-existence….

I have it on good authority that the LIV has nearly unlimited funds and is willing to suffer years of unconscionable losses. That definitely could destroy the PGA Tour. They have the money to do it.

Where is the evidence the Tour was holding out on the players or cooking the books in some way? Isn't that what a lot of the ringleaders were claiming? They weren't getting a fair share? Increasing the pot after the fact doesn't mean that money was always there.

Again, just because you react to an offer by the competition doesn't mean accusations of impropriety are correct. They may be leveraging themselves or forced into new funding avenues to pony up the extra money to make the competing offer.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You wouldn’t be pissed if you‘re one of the guys banned?

also understandable that DP Tour guys are even more pissed that their Tour is being further minimalized in the World Rankings system….


it’s called human nature….

I‘ve not seen anything on the Tour “cooking books”…..but the media rights is a massive issue.


How lame is it that Mickelson (and I assume others) had to PAY the Tour $1 mil each time to play The Match?

Phil Mickelson rips PGA Tour, says its 'greed beyond obnoxious'

In a scathing interview, Phil Mickelson ripped the PGA Tour's media rights policy and said the Tour's "greed" is "beyond obnoxious."

golf.com

I just don’t believe any scary stories about the PGA Tour folding. Their Leadership would have to take a “we‘re going down with the ship“ mentality instead of what we‘re already seeing…..calculated adaptation. It will continue IMO, until these Issues are resolved, or until an amicable agreement can be worked out for coexistence.

 

[g00n]

You wouldn’t be pissed if you‘re one of the guys banned?

also understandable that DP Tour guys are even more pissed that their Tour is being further minimalized in the World Rankings system….


it’s called human nature….

I‘ve not seen anything on the Tour “cooking books”…..but the media rights is a massive issue.


How lame is it that Mickelson (and I assume others) had to PAY the Tour $1 mil each time to play The Match?

Phil Mickelson rips PGA Tour, says its 'greed beyond obnoxious'

In a scathing interview, Phil Mickelson ripped the PGA Tour's media rights policy and said the Tour's "greed" is "beyond obnoxious."

golf.com

I just don’t believe any scary stories about the PGA Tour folding. Their Leadership would have to take a “we‘re going down with the ship“ mentality instead of what we‘re already seeing…..calculated adaptation. It will continue IMO, until these Issues are resolved, or until an amicable agreement can be worked out for coexistence.

Where does his claim of $20 Billion in digital assets come from? That seems like it's in line with claims that the Tour is withholding large sums of money it could be distributing, yes? This seems like a made-up number and not real cash. It's probably a high-end of estimated potential earnings, or something cobbled together from lower revenues from past sales of Tiger's or Phil's video clips for reruns or online access.

Did he really have to pay $1M each time he participated in The Match, or is he just counting lost potential rights revenue as a payment? If he really did have to ante up $1M that's asinine but I'd need to see concrete proof.

The right management is something that could've been negotiated but if we're talking about human nature the realism of that same element is that "greed" is involved for all parties, including Phil.

I think that indicates pretty strongly that the entire Tour is a potential target for Saudi buy-out.

 

[g00n]

Here's Phil saying the PGA Tour has been cheating them:

Phil Mickelson accuses PGA Tour of withholding YouTube earnings

The six-time major winner was replying to a remark about the PIP scheme.

www.bunkered.co.uk

So he's just throwing numbers out there.

You don't make $50M or $10-20B off of 825M youtube views.

Even assuming the high end of $5 that's like $4M in revenue since 2006...about $250K/yr.

Phil is full of shit.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Where does his claim of $20 Billion in digital assets come from? That seems like it's in line with claims that the Tour is withholding large sums of money it could be distributing, yes? This seems like a made-up number and not real cash. It's probably a high-end of estimated potential earnings, or something cobbled together from lower revenues from past sales of Tiger's or Phil's video clips for reruns or online access.

Did he really have to pay $1M each time he participated in The Match, or is he just counting lost potential rights revenue as a payment? If he really did have to ante up $1M that's asinine but I'd need to see concrete proof.

The right management is something that could've been negotiated but if we're talking about human nature the realism of that same element is that "greed" is involved for all parties, including Phil.

View attachment 579668

I think that indicates pretty strongly that the entire Tour is a potential target for Saudi buy-out.

I’m sure some bean counter has given him numbers….? Maybe the Tour has already established that value?

I can only state what the article said….on the 2x $1 mil payment he said he made….

And of course LIV is trolling all players….it’s a smart business decision. Both tours know they won’t get 100% of the talent pool….

I‘m sensing a tone of resenting rich athletes from you…..

Here's Phil saying the PGA Tour has been cheating them:

Phil Mickelson accuses PGA Tour of withholding YouTube earnings

The six-time major winner was replying to a remark about the PIP scheme.

www.bunkered.co.uk

View attachment 579670

View attachment 579673

So he's just throwing numbers out there.



View attachment 579671

You don't make $50M or $10-20B off of 825M youtube views.

View attachment 579672

Even assuming the high end of $5 that's like $4M in revenue since 2006...about $250K/yr.

Phil is full of shit.

Pardon me if I wait for an actual bean counter to weigh in… It’s not like the entire PGA Tour historical film archive isn‘t incredibly valuable….just like NFL Films for example. I’m sure it’s pretty easy to place a value on projected future revenue….Youtube being only a slice of the larger future revenues picture.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I don’t have much sympathy for any of it. It’s similar to when baseball players were crying about colluding owners and salaries being held down, all while guys are getting 300-400m contracts.

I’m fine with them all doing their thing to try and get what’s theirs. It doesn’t matter to me, and they have the right to push for what they think is fair.

Just don’t expect me (or anyone outside their own bubbles) to spend any time caring about this. I will save my Elizabeth Warren outrage for other things.

 

[g00n]

I’m sure some bean counter has given him numbers….? Maybe the Tour has already established that value?

I can only state what the article said….on the 2x $1 mil payment he said he made….

And of course LIV is trolling all players….it’s a smart business decision. Both tours know they won’t get 100% of the talent pool….

I‘m sensing a tone of resenting rich athletes from you…..


Pardon me if I wait for an actual bean counter to weigh in… It’s not like the entire PGA Tour historical film archive isn‘t incredibly valuable….just like NFL Films for example. I’m sure it’s pretty easy to place a value on projected future revenue….Youtube being only a slice of the larger future revenues picture.

I have nothing against guys getting as much as they can... in fair play. I don't think this is fair play and I don't like when rich guys poor mouth or whine about not being a little bit richer, as though they're struggling. Like Sprewell or whatever talking about how he needs to feed his kids and that's why he needs another 10M or something. LOL who does he think he's kidding.

 

[g00n]

So the golf vacation jamboroo is over. Summary: The simple swing thought is going pretty well after fixing the driver-- 75 yesterday at Blue Mash and 74 today from the tips at Waverly with a few birds sprinkled in. Actually made some putts down the stretch.

6 rounds in the last 8 days. I think that's enough for a while.


/will be right back on the range like a junkie in 3...2...1...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I have nothing against guys getting as much as they can... in fair play. I don't think this is fair play and I don't like when rich guys poor mouth or whine about not being a little bit richer, as though they're struggling. Like Sprewell or whatever talking about how he needs to feed his kids and that's why he needs another 10M or something. LOL who does he think he's kidding.

….imagine the expenses with so many baby mama’s…

I think it’s your perspective on Phil to be honest. He’s put many people off, I get it. But….I don’t think he’s poor mouthing shit. He’s talking about getting the players paid more (done) and giving them more control over their own media rights (TBD)….more control over their own golfing careers (TBD).

makes me wonder….decades ago, back before free agency was a thing and players were sacrificing careers and fighting that fight, I wonder if the average fan back then didn’t have the same attitude about athletes compensation…..regardless of you wanting to tag a “fair“ or “unfair” label to this….that’s pure opinion.

 

[g00n]

….imagine the expenses with so many baby mama’s…

I think it’s your perspective on Phil to be honest. I don’t think he’s poor mouthing shit. He’s talking about getting the players paid more (done) and giving them more control over their own media rights (TBD)….more control over their own golfing careers (TBD).

makes me wonder….decades ago, back before free agency was a thing and players were sacrificing careers and fighting that fight, I wonder if the average fan back then didn’t have the same attitude about athletes compensation…..

This is millionaires fighting other millionaires over a mix of imaginary and real money.

Regarding Phil, he's pissed and moaned about taxes in California and other shit before. I don't have to do a thing, he does it all himself. He's got huge gambling losses driving his decisions despite his massive earnings so he has nobody else to blame but himself, and I think he's trying to pain the PGA Tour in the shittiest light possible so he can justify taking the LIV money.

Phil is throwing out imaginary figures without any proof so it looks like the PGA Tour was ripping him off.

I'm curious...do NFL players or athletes in other sports get stipends whenever a game is replayed on free websites like youtube?

 

[g00n]

What Phil gets wrong about the PGA Tour's media rights

Why Phil Mickelson's criticism about the PGA Tour's media rights is wrong.

www.golfdigest.com

For example, if the tour’s media rights were fragmented—say, if CBS Sports didn’t have the exclusive rights to air this weekend’s Genesis Invitational and players could individually sell their live and archived broadcast rights—the TV deals would be worthless.

And those deals are worth a ton. In March 2020 the tour finalized a new nine-year media rights agreement with CBS Sports, NBC Sports and ESPN that went into effect in 2022 that will pay the tour $7 billion over this span. Mickelson, in a September podcast with Gary Williams, complained that only 26 percent of this revenue was being funneled back to the players. In truth, according to a memo from PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan to players last November, 55 percent of revenue is going back to the players in prize money, bonus programs and other benefits. This 55 percent is in line with what NBA and NFL players receive from their respective leagues (MLB is currently in a labor dispute).

This is why I say Phil's arguments are smoke and mirror horseshit designed to provide cover for the cash-grab.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Money that Phil would have otherwise pocketed…..not bullshit.

That aside, that deal above does NOT include the highlights and archives Mickelson specifically called out. So your article addresses a portion of the total pie.

and again….that 55% number is the NEW boosted number, so big win there in that recent change forced by all this.

 

[g00n]

Money that Phil would have otherwise pocketed…..not bullshit.

That aside, that deal above does NOT include the highlights and archives Mickelson specifically called out. So your article addresses a portion of the total pie.

and again….that 55% number is the NEW boosted number, so big win there in that recent change forced by all this.

That's not what happened. The 55% number was from last year, before the season and before LIV actually started. As stated above the increases were tied to the new media deal, not LIV.

Not sure what you're disputing. The link I posted rips all of Phil's numbers and arguments to shreds.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That's not what happened. The 55% number was from last year, before the season and before LIV actually started. As stated above the increases were tied to the new media deal, not LIV.

Not sure what you're disputing. The link I posted rips all of Phil's numbers and arguments to shreds.

an article with light unverified info referencing an unpublished memo doesn’t sway me as easily, sorry.

…and yet the PGA Tour is scrambling to massively boost prize money and reward the guys in the best form even more and more….I wonder why?

If they’re already so right? Why the big shift? They were already reacting to the LIV threat last year, and now again another massive bump and change in the player’s favor….

it’s time to accept there’s a common middle ground out there….if the PGA Tour is willing to negotiate.

 

[g00n]

an article with light unverified info referencing an unpublished memo doesn’t sway me as easily, sorry.

…and yet the PGA Tour is scrambling to massively boost prize money and reward the guys in the best form even more and more….I wonder why?

If they’re already so right? Why the big shift? They were already reacting to the LIV threat last year, and now again another massive bump and change in the player’s favor….

it’s time to accept there’s a common middle ground out there….if the PGA Tour is willing to negotiate.

Two different items: the future vs the past.

The future is up for debate. The past is a bunch of distortions and unproven allegations.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Two different items: the future vs the past.

The future is up for debate. The past is a bunch of distortions and unproven allegations.

yet very much the same issues and Tour response…..so far.

 

[g00n]

yet very much the same issues and Tour response…..so far.

But again, response to an ongoing business situation or threat is not an admission of guilt or proof of the veracity of the complaints.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

But again, response to an ongoing business situation or threat is not an admission of guilt or proof of the veracity of the complaints.

It means the root concerns were valid…

 

[g00n]

It means the root concerns were valid…

No it doesn't.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Tiger Woods, Rory McIlroy served subpoenas over PGA Tour players-only meeting — USA TODAY

Larry Klayman, who filed lawsuits on behalf of Patrick Reed, wants to bring Tiger Woods, Rory McIlroy to court to testify about players-only meeting.

apple.news