World Cup: National Team threads #2

Evilo

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The mental gymnastics required to transmogrify “the colonial power shouldn’t get to pick and choose the identity and national affiliation of the colonized” into somehow a right wing position is genuinely remarkable
When you can't read sure.
When you read the article and the discussion, no. Since it has nothing to do with what was said.

However picking selected words from Benzema and using the fact he doesn't sing the anthem as somehow a guy who doesn't want to play for France is totally and exactly what is described in the article : far right words
 

Spring in Fialta

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Evilo can't read. Obviously Benzema wants to play for France - it was the best thing to do for his career. That's the point I (and he) made.

Just like it can be (or not) for other binationals.

Crying about them receiving gifts/payments is batshit crazy.
 

Evilo

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Batshit crazy to think putting pressure on kids in difficult social conditions is bad?

Moral values indeed!
 

Spring in Fialta

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Also, reading Evilo, you'd think that African nations are strapping these guys down or doxxing them until they say yes or something.

They come in and pitch a program/advantages.

What, you think the pressure from clubs isn't big? From the French federation? From the fans?

These are elite athletes in European football. Spain and Morocco pitched Lamine Yamal. He ended up picking Spain. Am I going to go around and curse Spain? No for Christ's sake, it's his career and it's his to do whatever he thinks is best with.
 

Evilo

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What about clubs?

Also, as if France is just sitting by idly waiting for all these players to pick France out of honor and heart.

What a crock of shit.
Hmm yeah I'd be surprised if France is paying those 14 year old kids. If they do they're clearly not doing it right.

Also, reading Evilo, you'd think that African nations are strapping these guys down or doxxing them until they say yes or something.

They come in and pitch a program/advantages.

What, you think the pressure from clubs isn't big? From the French federation? From the fans?

These are elite athletes in European football. Spain and Morocco pitched Lamine Yamal. He ended up picking Spain. Am I going to go around and curse Spain? No for Christ's sake, it's his career and it's his to do whatever he thinks is best with.
African nations? Don't say you read then. I clearly included Spain and Portugal...
Nooe players can choose all they want.
And they don't choose a program lol. Who's program is actually better? Please. The heart argument is actually more solid.

Why would you curse a guy born in Spain for playing for Spain? lol.... Lol lol lol.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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I always thought Benzema's remark about how he's French if he scores and Arab if he has problems was interesting. It's obviously not unique to him, I'm pretty sure others have said it about their situation, too. But the interesting part is that there's obviously also a flip side. Psychologically, I am sure it's also much easier to feel French when things are going well than when things are going badly. Footballers are performers. Performers live off the approval of their audience. What happens when you lose, don't score, get into trouble? Approval turns to criticism.

If you stand there hoisting a World Cup trophy for France and the masses cheer you adoringly, it'd be almost inhuman not to feel elation and unity. If things go badly, then the problems come up and differences are played up. It works both ways because not only can France reject Benzema, Benzema can also reject France - at times. As someone who is a migrant himself - I can say that the relationship between a migrant and an adopted country is more like a marriage than like a family relationship. There's ups and downs in both types of relationships, but family has a finality and inevitability to it that a marriage doesn't, so there's always more of a 'base' connection to family.

The thing that makes the Benzema case (and the corresponding Ozil case) so politically loaded really is that neither is a migrant. Benzema born in France, Ozil born in Germany. These types of complexities are supposed to decrease with the generations born in the country to migrant parents, but instead they persist and sometimes get worse. Football has at times tried to act like it's the solution to that problem, but I think it's a fabrication.
 

Evilo

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I always thought Benzema's remark about how he's French if he scores and Arab if he has problems was interesting. It's obviously not unique to him, I'm pretty sure others have said it about their situation, too. But the interesting part is that there's obviously also a flip side. Psychologically, I am sure it's also much easier to feel French when things are going well than when things are going badly. Footballers are performers. Performers live off the approval of their audience. What happens when you lose, don't score, get into trouble? Approval turns to criticism.

If you stand there hoisting a World Cup trophy for France and the masses cheer you adoringly, it'd be almost inhuman not to feel elation and unity. If things go badly, then the problems come up and differences are played up. It works both ways because not only can France reject Benzema, Benzema can also reject France - at times. As someone who is a migrant himself - I can say that the relationship between a migrant and an adopted country is more like a marriage than like a family relationship. There's ups and downs in both types of relationships, but family has a finality and inevitability to it that a marriage doesn't, so there's always more of a 'base' connection to family.

The thing that makes the Benzema case (and the corresponding Ozil case) so politically loaded really is that neither is a migrant. Benzema born in France, Ozil born in Germany. These types of complexities are supposed to decrease with the generations born in the country to migrant parents, but instead they persist and sometimes get worse. Football has at times tried to act like it's the solution to that problem, but I think it's a fabrication.
It's really a political argument.
I don't think any non right wing person would say Benzema isn't French after a loss.
But extremists would gladly forget his algerian roots when winning that's true.
 

Jersey Fresh

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Some people will try to twist themselves into a sailor’s knots and then act surprised when no one buys what they’re selling, it’s hilarious. The conjured accusations are really just icing on an incredibly stupid cake.

Each player has different inputs and they’re free to make their decisions as they choose. No one is owed anything.
 
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Spring in Fialta

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Some people will try to twist themselves into a sailor’s knots and then act surprised when no one buys what they’re selling, it’s hilarious.

Each player has different inputs and they’re free to make their decisions as they choose. No one is owed anything.

Exactly this. It's not as if the FFF is training these guys out of kindness. No, they're assets to the FFF as well.
 

Incubajerks

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I always thought Benzema's remark about how he's French if he scores and Arab if he has problems was interesting. It's obviously not unique to him, I'm pretty sure others have said it about their situation, too. But the interesting part is that there's obviously also a flip side. Psychologically, I am sure it's also much easier to feel French when things are going well than when things are going badly. Footballers are performers. Performers live off the approval of their audience. What happens when you lose, don't score, get into trouble? Approval turns to criticism.

If you stand there hoisting a World Cup trophy for France and the masses cheer you adoringly, it'd be almost inhuman not to feel elation and unity. If things go badly, then the problems come up and differences are played up. It works both ways because not only can France reject Benzema, Benzema can also reject France - at times. As someone who is a migrant himself - I can say that the relationship between a migrant and an adopted country is more like a marriage than like a family relationship. There's ups and downs in both types of relationships, but family has a finality and inevitability to it that a marriage doesn't, so there's always more of a 'base' connection to family.

The thing that makes the Benzema case (and the corresponding Ozil case) so politically loaded really is that neither is a migrant. Benzema born in France, Ozil born in Germany. These types of complexities are supposed to decrease with the generations born in the country to migrant parents, but instead they persist and sometimes get worse. Football has at times tried to act like it's the solution to that problem, but I think it's a fabrication.

There is a substantial difference, one is a country has been able to integrate and, among other things, those who migrated to Germany have in most cases had to learn the language, the other is a country that has not been able to integrate even though the migrants speak the same language as the natives.
 

Jersey Fresh

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Exactly this. It's not as if the FFF is training these guys out of kindness. No, they're assets to the FFF as well.
If some kid wants to sell his allegiance for a washing machine for his family and a sports car, you know what, go for it. Not that I believe for a second that accounts for any relevant number of these cases, mind you.
 
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Evilo

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Then you should be quiet and stop crying when they pick another country than France. Period. No ifs and buts.
Haha and you should read what I write instead of what you think I write.

Haha people trying to justify apartheid are now trying to give moral lessons on hockey forums.
Hilarious.

There is a substantial difference, one is a country has been able to integrate and, among other things, those who migrated to Germany have in most cases had to learn the language, the other is a country that has not been able to integrate even though the migrants speak the same language as the natives.
We've integrated for over a century. Including all the Italian and Spaniards fleeing their fascist countries.
I'd say most migrants integrate quite well. But it's been way more difficult the last couple of decades. For reasons that are multiple.
 

Jersey Fresh

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Lol never mind. Speaks for itself.

Yeah, A+ on French integration. There’s still a few banlieues that haven’t been burned to the ground yet.
 
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Evilo

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Lies cries and argued....
Looks a lot like that apartheid apologist we have here... Loved by the so called morrocan to boot! :laugh:


Anyway I'm done here. And really shouldn't have answered the original crap about Ferguson that was only meant to stir shit even though it had nothing to do with what was discussed afterwards. Trolls gotta troll!
 

Jersey Fresh

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“So called”…what an embarrassment. Not content with dictating the ethnic identity of footballers, wants to extend it to posters too. Guess nothing is surprising anymore.

And this guy thinks he’s the liberal calling *other people* Le Pen.
 
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Spring in Fialta

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Lies cries and argued....
Looks a lot like that apartheid apologist we have here... Loved by the so called morrocan to boot! :laugh:


Anyway I'm done here. And really shouldn't have answered the original crap about Ferguson that was only meant to stir shit even though it had nothing to do with what was discussed afterwards. Trolls gotta troll!

Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I pretend to be from noted footballing power Morocco to troll on the soccer board of a hockey forum.

Evilo meltdown complete.
 

Jersey Fresh

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Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I pretend to be from noted footballing power Morocco to troll on the soccer board of a hockey forum.

Evilo meltdown complete.
The guy is just a caricature, it’s laughable. The butt of jokes for years, a guy that argues like a toddler in the body of a perpetually aggrieved middle-aged man, but always comes back.

I love “teaming up with” too. It doesn’t take much to disagree with idiocy. Half the board is doing it right now, you’ll notice.
 
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bluesfan94

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simpsons-bart-simpson.gif
 

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