Nashville Predators talk - The offseason.

[Roman Yoshi]

Remember when we gave Rinne his retirement contract and everyone said how bad it was?

We were in a different place as a franchise though. We were right at the cusp of our window. We needed a win. In theory we are supposed to be turning the team over to the youth, not competing for a cup.

I'd have no issue what do ever if Askarov wasn't in the system. But he is. The only reasonable move now would be moving him to try and get a forward or D prospect. If we go in with both under contract next season, I do think that is a mistake.

 

[Soundgarden]

We were in a different place as a franchise though. We were right at the cusp of our window. We needed a win. In theory we are supposed to be turning the team over to the youth, not competing for a cup.

I'd have no issue what do ever if Askarov wasn't in the system. But he is. The only reasonable move now would be moving him to try and get a forward or D prospect. If we go in with both under contract next season, I do think that is a mistake.

Eight years is a looooong time in hockey, a lot can change. Eight years ago we hadn't made the finals yet, or won the Presidents trophy, hell eight years ago Buffalo still hadn't made the playoffs....

We can easily get back into contender mode with a few quality moves, will it happen, i don't know, but obviously this is just a single step in Trotz plan.

I think Askarov can/will have more value when he can prove himself in the NHL more. I think it comes down to if he wants to wait around until we think it's time.

 

[JD86]

Remember when we gave Rinne his retirement contract and everyone said how bad it was?

Rinne's 7x7 contract took him to age 35, I believe. He was then re-signed for his age 36 and 37 seasons and was pretty awful in both. The Saros deal goes through 38 and he's a small goalie that relies heavily on positioning and athleticism. Could look really, really rough at the end. And it isn't like the Preds are in a heavily competitive window right now and the future doesn't matter much.

 

[Soundgarden]

Rinne's 7x7 contract took him to age 35, I believe. He was then re-signed for his age 36 and 37 seasons and was pretty awful in both. The Saros deal goes through 38 and he's a small goalie that relies heavily on positioning and athleticism. Could look really, really rough at the end. And it isn't like the Preds are in a heavily competitive window right now and the future doesn't matter much.

Again, a lot can happen in that time. He'll probably have some elite seasons some good seasons and some poor seasons, but who knows the outcome, maybe we move him for a fair deal, maybe we have to buy him out with two more years left. It's a long ways away.

 

[wmupreds]

If I had any confidence the Preds were in a Cup-contending direction right now, I'd have no issue with signing Saros to this contract and likely eating a few bad years at the end.

 

[herzausstein]

Rinne being 6 inches taller than saros helped him. Saros is great but him slowing down with age plus his small stature just seems like a bad recipe

 

[EyeofSaros]

Now that Saros is locked in long term, Josi is old. Forsberg is 29, just go all in ? Trade askarov+ for Necas. Sign Skjei, Stephenson and Zadorov.

Nyquist-O'Reilly-Forsberg
Necas-Stephenson-Evangelista

That's a nice top 6 in my opinion

Josi-Skjei
Carrier-Zadorov
Lauzon-Fabbro

 

[Armourboy]

Now that Saros is locked in long term, Josi is old. Forsberg is 29, just go all in ? Trade askarov+ for Necas. Sign Skjei, Stephenson and Zadorov.

Nyquist-O'Reilly-Forsberg
Necas-Stephenson-Evangelista

That's a nice top 6 in my opinion

Josi-Skjei
Carrier-Zadorov
Lauzon-Fabbro

That's what the age of the team dictates but just like Poile, Trotz won't do it. What we will end up with is a half ass version of that and we get bumped in the first round as usual.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

As always, the sun comes up.

At the end of the day, you have an elite goalie locked up at a fair AAV which is never a bad thing.

Where the bad thing comes in is the youth movement that we wanted, that we really needed, is dead moving forward. That 18 game streak is going to push the team to compete now, which I honestly don't think they are capable of in the current Western conference.

Not with Dallas, Colorado, Vegas and Edmonton structured the way that they are.

That being said, it does look like the Preds will get Skeji locked up on Monday. My guess is $6.25.

Per Friedman: Necas is probably going to Columbus. My guess is the 4th overall pick is in the mix there. I wouldn't be surprised if Laine is too if the deal is bigger.

If I had to put money on it, I think Marner stays in Toronto. If he doesn't, Vegas or Utah make the most sense.

I really do think Stephenson is a Pred on Monday.

Someone I would like the team to explore is Bertuzzi, but I haven't heard his name associated with the team at all.

As far as Askarov goes... I just hope they move him now. I think waiting would be a massive mistake. We don't want him to be Tomasino'd.

I'm not as disappointed as I was last night, but I'm resigned to: if we are going for it, we better f***ing go for it. If we believe in this core go get the pieces we need to compete with the big dogs. Don't half ass it.

 

[Armourboy]

As always, the sun comes up.

At the end of the day, you have an elite goalie locked up at a fair AAV which is never a bad thing.

Where the bad thing comes in is the youth movement that we wanted, that we really needed, is dead moving forward. That 18 game streak is going to push the team to compete now, which I honestly don't think they are capable of in the current Western conference.

Not with Dallas, Colorado, Vegas and Edmonton structured the way that they are.

That being said, it does look like the Preds will get Skeji locked up on Monday. My guess is $6.25.

Per Friedman: Necas is probably going to Columbus. My guess is the 4th overall pick is in the mix there. I wouldn't be surprised if Laine is too if the deal is bigger.

If I had to put money on it, I think Marner stays in Toronto. If he doesn't, Vegas or Utah make the most sense.

I really do think Stephenson is a Pred on Monday.

Someone I would like the team to explore is Bertuzzi, but I haven't heard his name associated with the team at all.

As far as Askarov goes... I just hope they move him now. I think waiting would be a massive mistake. We don't want him to be Tomasino'd.

I'm not as disappointed as I was last night, but I'm resigned to: if we are going for it, we better f***ing go for it. If we believe in this core go get the pieces we need to compete with the big dogs. Don't half ass it.

Ultimately that's my problem with it, this is a move you make if you are going all in now with Josi, and Forsberg. You load up the best you can with guys like Marner, Necas, Stephenson, etc and try and make a run at it. Yeah you might flame out after the 2nd round or WCF but at least you made a decision and did it.

Instead Trotz is going to get a guy or two, most likely the worst of the bunch, try and plug 1 young guy and a bunch of tweeners in the rest. So what you get is a bubble team, and yet another year of mediocrity and wasted fan patience.

 

[beardawg]

I'm not as disappointed as I was last night, but I'm resigned to: if we are going for it, we better f***ing go for it. If we believe in this core go get the pieces we need to compete with the big dogs. Don't half ass it.

THIS. We have a top 5 goalie at a team friendly AAV. That gives us extra cap space to spend on areas to improve the team further. The most disappointing thing is going into next season without making a significant addition to the forward group. If we're going for it, just GO for it

Side note, Hellebuyck signed a more expensive deal at an older age and it was extremely well-received. It seems like most of the hockey world outside of Nashville thinks the Saros deal is fair, but a term a bit long (it's better than the Bob deal, and he just finally willed the Panthers to a cup at 35. If Saros as 1 similar season in 5 or 6 years, does that make it worth it?). I understand the gripe some might have about the conflicting direction of the team, but we've barely started the offseason. Let's see what the opening night roster looks like before calling doom and gloom

 

[herzausstein]

Our depth dictates that we have to have elite wingers in order to overcome our center deficiencies. Ill still wait around and see what Trotz has planned but it seems like we just tied ourselves into years of mediocrity.

 

[Predsanddead24]

THIS. We have a top 5 goalie at a team friendly AAV. That gives us extra cap space to spend on areas to improve the team further. The most disappointing thing is going into next season without making a significant addition to the forward group. If we're going for it, just GO for it

Side note, Hellebuyck signed a more expensive deal at an older age and it was extremely well-received. It seems like most of the hockey world outside of Nashville thinks the Saros deal is fair, but a term a bit long (it's better than the Bob deal, and he just finally willed the Panthers to a cup at 35. If Saros as 1 similar season in 5 or 6 years, does that make it worth it?). I understand the gripe some might have about the conflicting direction of the team, but we've barely started the offseason. Let's see what the opening night roster looks like before calling doom and gloom

This is a completely reasonable deal. Slightly less than Hellebuyck who is a better goalie and slightly less than Sorokin who is similar quality but younger. It’s what it reasonably was going to take to re-sign him. That being said I think it was a mistake but it’s also not necessarily world ending. We just dumped two similar contracts early and while unpleasant it’s not anything insurmountable.

In the end while I’d rather have taken a patient approach I agree that now we need to actually go for it. Use our prospect pool to add players now and try and snag some big names in free agency. I’m not super optimistic we actually achieve that but I’m willing to at least see what our roster looks like next week before I get too perturbed. As a side note, if this was going to be our plan we really should have held onto Ekholm though.

 

[beardawg]

Rinne being 6 inches taller than saros helped him. Saros is great but him slowing down with age plus his small stature just seems like a bad recipe

Jaro Halak carved out a pretty consistent career into his late 30s and is about Saros' height. Juuse is a better goalie, so I don't see why he cant do the same

 

[wmupreds]

THIS. We have a top 5 goalie at a team friendly AAV. That gives us extra cap space to spend on areas to improve the team further. The most disappointing thing is going into next season without making a significant addition to the forward group. If we're going for it, just GO for it

Side note, Hellebuyck signed a more expensive deal at an older age and it was extremely well-received. It seems like most of the hockey world outside of Nashville thinks the Saros deal is fair, but a term a bit long (it's better than the Bob deal, and he just finally willed the Panthers to a cup at 35. If Saros as 1 similar season in 5 or 6 years, does that make it worth it?). I understand the gripe some might have about the conflicting direction of the team, but we've barely started the offseason. Let's see what the opening night roster looks like before calling doom and gloom

Bob willed Florida to a cup? The rest of Florida's roster is so much better constructed than ours it's not even close..

Also nobody is saying the deal isn't fair value. Just it doesn't make sense currently.

 

[PredsV82]

Or we can platoon them until he shows he can hang in the league, like we did with Vokoun and Rinne and Saros.

We never platooned Vokoun and Rinne. Vokoun was gone before Rinne ever came up

 

[beardawg]

As a side note, if this was going to be our plan we really should have held onto Ekholm though.

The bright side is we drafted Molendyk with that Edmonton pick. I imagine the plan was to keep McDonagh to fill that gap longer, but unfortunately his heart just wasn't in Nashville

Bob willed Florida to a cup? The rest of Florida's roster is so much better constructed than ours it's not even close..

Also nobody is saying the deal isn't fair value. Just it doesn't make sense currently.

Were we watching the same playoffs? Bob had some of the best numbers in NHL history up to game 4 of the finals and was probably the Conn Smythe front runner.

Florida's team was not constructed the way it was when Bob signed that contract - the point is, things can change, and they can change fast. His contract was not well received as well because Panthers fans felt like Knight was ready to take over. Sound familar?

 

[Soundgarden]

We never platooned Vokoun and Rinne. Vokoun was gone before Rinne ever came up

I meant Rinne with Ellis, Vokoun with Dunham.

 

[PredsV82]

Remember when we gave Rinne his retirement contract and everyone said how bad it was?

Rinne got 7x7 in his prime. His subsequent extensions were 2 years and then 1 year.

But if we were going to sign Saros, this is as good as we could do. If in 3 years Askarov is a Rockstar but Saros is still decent we would be able to move him with retention, or buy him out if he stinks.

But if we are going this route then we need to let Askarov play in the NHL and see if he can cut it.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Rinne got 7x7 in his prime. His subsequent extensions were 2 years and then 1 year.

But if we were going to sign Saros, this is as good as we could do. If in 3 years Askarov is a Rockstar but Saros is still decent we would be able to move him with retention, or buy him out if he stinks.

But if we are going this route then we need to let Askarov play in the NHL and see if he can cut it.

Daugherty seems to think Askarov is going to be the backup next year based on his interview with Trotz. Super obvious take but we really need Askarov to light it up as a backup and then I think we actually could get a haul for him.

 

[herzausstein]

Jaro Halak carved out a pretty consistent career into his late 30s and is about Saros' height. Juuse is a better goalie, so I don't see why he cant do the same

Halak was pretty much a backup for the last 4 seasons of his career and not a very good one for the last 3. He also cost a whole lot less for those over 35 years.

 

[beardawg]

If Trotz strikes out on free agent defenseman, does he look at Trouba? Could be an ideal partner for Josi. High cap hit and could probably be had as a dump. Maybe a deal around Trouba, Kakko, draft picks for Schenn?

 

[Viqsi]

We got lucky on one, absolutely. But if we keep rolling the dice, we're eventually going to be burned.

How well do goalies age? A look at a goalie aging curve.

A few weeks back, I unveiled Hockey Marcels: an extremely simplistic system for projecting goalies performance going forward, utilizing just the last four years of a goalies’ play to d…

hockey-graphs.com

We're just hoping Saros beats the odds and stays flat/gets better. But hope isn't a strategy, especially when the odds are stacked against you.

For the record, I'm glad we're keeping him around. A 8M x 4year deal would have had me over the moon. I just hate the age 34-38 years when, in theory, we could have a competitive team with all the draft picks we're stocked with.

I'm unconcerned about the later years; by then the cap will have gone back up considerably.

 

[herzausstein]

If Trotz strikes out on free agent defenseman, does he look at Trouba? Could be an ideal partner for Josi. High cap hit and could probably be had as a dump. Maybe a deal around Trouba, Kakko, draft picks for Schenn?

As much flack as people give trouba, he would be our best RHD for years to come.

 

[predhead1]

Daugherty seems to think Askarov is going to be the backup next year based on his interview with Trotz. Super obvious take but we really need Askarov to light it up as a backup and then I think we actually could get a haul for him.

This is spot on. Nobody is giving anything of value for Askarov right now. He's still a prospect, and in fact, he got lit up and pulled during the AHL playoffs. So how the hell are you going to convince another organization that this guy is worth a premium trade return? He needs to get a fair split of games with Saros this season to see what we really have (and so that others can as well).