Nashville Predators talk - The offseason.

[ShagDaddy]

Turris and sheltering are a bit (unintentionally) harsh. I don't see him as a center you can send out there consistently against other team's top line centers and ultimately be successful. Doesn't mean I don't think he's a great player or won't be a productive, successful player.

Yet. He’s not there yet. He’s just 23 years old. Fortunately he wouldn’t have to take over as the 1C for another couple of years because the Preds have O’Reilly who is an excellent mentor. He has the skills to be a 1C.

 

[ShagDaddy]

If they manage to get Stephenson, Evangelista will have an exponential increase in his scoring.

 

[wmupreds]

I would rather go for Stephenson than Lindholm but I'm skeptical about what sort of term he'll want.

 

[Scoresberg]

Why, though? It’s 1C or bust for me. With Stephenson you’re essentially just clogging up 3 of your 4 center spots with veterans. No room for Pärssinen, Svechkov in the future.

 

[Gh24]

Stephenson is a 60 pt player. I don't mind bringing in good players, but what's the idea? Have him, ROR and Novak battle which 2C gets to play 1C minutes?

 

[Armourboy]

After what I saw of Novak in the playoffs he needs to be moved to wing rather than battling for anything center related.

 

[Armourboy]

Yet. He’s not there yet. He’s just 23 years old. Fortunately he wouldn’t have to take over as the 1C for another couple of years because the Preds have O’Reilly who is an excellent mentor. He has the skills to be a 1C.

How many guys turn into a 1C though? Usually by 23 you either are one or you aren't. Maybe they are rough around the edges at that age but it seems most are already playing it by that stage unless you run into a situation like Pittsburgh.

 

[herzausstein]

Brunette didn't trust Novak in the playoffs. We need a 2C or a 1C to push ROR down so that our 2nd line can actually be a 2nd line. Novak can go to wing or be used as trade bait.

 

[Kat Predator]

How many guys turn into a 1C though? Usually by 23 you either are one or you aren't. Maybe they are rough around the edges at that age but it seems most are already playing it by that stage unless you run into a situation like Pittsburgh.

Well, there's Pierre-Luc Dubois.

 

[herzausstein]

Well, there's Pierre-Luc Dubois.

I believe Tage Thompson's breakout year was at 24. JT Miller didn't start getting into the PPG range till around 25/26. Same with zibanejad.

Dubois kills me because he seems to have motivation issues but he is talented.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Stephenson is a 60 pt player. I don't mind bringing in good players, but what's the idea? Have him, ROR and Novak battle which 2C gets to play 1C minutes?

I'm not at all convinced that Stephenson would even be a 60 pt player here. He's like Lindholm to me... not even as good... but you can take them if you get a bargain on shorter term/lower $$$ and they could be satisfactory patches on the 2C role for a little while until Svechkov or somebody else advances, but there is basically no way I pay the expected market valuation on either of them.

3x$5M for Stephenson? Ok, but I'm not going higher than that, and there is definitely a lack of centers in this UFA market, so I fully expect both him and Lindholm to get crazy crazy money and term. They are rare enough commodities and A LOT of teams are going to be flush with cash like they haven't been for several years. It's a weak UFA class, but some players are absolutely going to make a killing in this market. I'd rather we didn't fall victim to the madness that is coming.

 

[glenngineer]

The one young center I'd go after is Byfield. We have the resources to either make a trade or offer sheet him. If we have to do it via trade, offer up a fair package of good young talent that benefits both teams.

On a different note, watching the FL/NY game last night, one thing we sorely lack is a line that can grind other teams down in the offensive zone by being able to win puck battles - much like Fisher/Neal/Wilson did in our Cup run. Forsberg and ROR are 2/3 of the way there for me as Gus can be soft on the puck sometime. Barkov/Reinhart/Tarasenko are so good at cycling and controlling the puck. Something to consider moving forward.

 

[ShagDaddy]

The whole “yeah but they won’t be able to put up numbers like there here” argument carries zero weight and is a fallacy. Theres no voodoo hex cast on Bridgestone’s ice. O’Reilly not only replicated his numbers but got better. Nyquist not only replicated his numbers but got better. Forsberg got better. Brunette (whether you like him or not) ain’t your grandfather’s Predators coach. If Trotz can get him the players, he can get them to produce.

 

[Armourboy]

The whole “yeah but they won’t be able to put up numbers like there here” argument carries zero weight and is a fallacy. Theres no voodoo hex cast on Bridgestone’s ice. O’Reilly not only replicated his numbers but got better. Nyquist not only replicated his numbers but got better. Forsberg got better. Brunette (whether you like him or not) ain’t your grandfather’s Predators coach. If Trotz can get him the players, he can get them to produce.

That's going to be a thing until we start seeing 80+ point players on the regular. Plus this is Brunette's first year, we don't know yet what is or isn't normal.

I mean he didn't exactly play that way in the playoffs, which tells me he doesn't need to play a certain way if he thinks another way can get him wins. That's not a bad thing, just hard to change 20+ years of history in one season.

 

[ShagDaddy]

That's going to be a thing until we start seeing 80+ point players on the regular. Plus this is Brunette's first year, we don't know yet what is or isn't normal.

I mean he didn't exactly play that way in the playoffs, which tells me he doesn't need to play a certain way if he thinks another way can get him wins. That's not a bad thing, just hard to change 20+ years of history in one season.

They changed 20+ years of history in the blink of any eye. Trotz is the new GM, Brunette is the new HC and Haslam will be the governor next year.

 

[beardawg]

The captain doing captain things and leading Switzerland to a gold medal game while chasing his 2nd tournament MVP nod

 

[Armourboy]

They changed 20+ years of history in the blink of any eye. Trotz is the new GM, Brunette is the new HC and Haslam will be the governor next year.

I don't think he can legally do that again.

They really didn't. To you maybe they changed it, for some of us it still looks a whole lot like it did for the first 24 years.

 

[Loyal Legion]

When I think of playoff “soft, I think of guys like Kyle Turris and Calle Jarnkrok. Players who offered some skill but once playoffs started, couldn’t produce any offense and whatever skill set they did have was diminished or vanished.

So when I hear Mitch Marner being labeled as playoff soft by some, I didn’t understand why. His .87 playoff points per game is a higher average than any Predator. With 50 points in 57 games, how can that be labeled “soft”? And if most teams who have cap space would easily sign him to a $8 mil-$9 mil extension (not $12 mil), that is not a salary you offer to anyone in the NHL if the general feeling is that player is soft in playoffs.
What was I missing?

I did some digging on Marner’s playoff history, I do see a few stats that some fans may have noticed that I didn’t.

- In 9 playoff series since his rookie year in 2017, Marner is 1-8. Only playoff series win came in 2023 vs Tampa. Most know Toronto is butt of all jokes on how to not win in playoffs, so this isn’t all just on Mitch Marner, but he is part of it.

1 playoff power play goal in 57 games. Thats almost 1/3 his average in regular season per 82 games. He does have 16 playoff assists which is a little higher than his regular season PP assist average per game.

In the final game of every playoff series that he has played, so 9 games, he has 2 assists.
0 goals, 2 assists in 9 games where the best players have to be the best.
This stat was most worrisome to me.

I have admittedly nit picked these stats like the entire city of Toronto has. And to his defense, he has been playing full time playoff minutes in Toronto since he was 19 years old and Toronto seems to be hexed. But since you are a former #4 overall pick and some say he is asking $11-$12 mil on his next contract, you are going to have to go thru this scrutiny.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I don't think he can legally do that again.

They really didn't. To you maybe they changed it, for some of us it still looks a whole lot like it did for the first 24 years.

Not sure how you can not see the difference. Everything is different the mentality of the organization from top to bottom is different. The player evaluation is different, the style of play is different. The type of player they’re trying to get is different.

If all your judging by is the loss in the first round of the playoffs and playing a few more bottom six guys than you’d like to see then your really not paying attention to what’s actually being done with this franchise. There is no way that Trotz could take what he was left with and turn it into a Stanley Cup contender in a single year, anyone who thought he could had unrealistic expectations. It’s going to take at least two more years for him to churn the roster enough to get there.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Completely different seems quite overstated. To me it’s putting a slightly more modern veneer on the classic Preds way of wanting guys who buy into the system and overcooking our prospects. Trotz has said some things that make it seem like he’s changing the way we operate but in practice I don’t see it. Like you said it’s only been one season though so we’ll see what he has in store for this year. To this point the Lavi era under Poile was much more of a departure than anything else we have ever done though in my opinion.

 

[Armourboy]

Not sure how you can not see the difference. Everything is different the mentality of the organization from top to bottom is different. The player evaluation is different, the style of play is different. The type of player they’re trying to get is different.

If all your judging by is the loss in the first round of the playoffs and playing a few more bottom six guys than you’d like to see then your really not paying attention to what’s actually being done with this franchise. There is no way that Trotz could take what he was left with and turn it into a Stanley Cup contender in a single year, anyone who thought he could had unrealistic expectations. It’s going to take at least two more years for him to churn the roster enough to get there.

I think your hopium is just letting you see what you want to see. About the only thing that has changed is the system on the ice, although oddly enough it looked a whole lot like old school Trotz hockey once he hit the playoffs.

Trotz went hand in hand with Poile helping build teams early on. RoR, Nyquist, Zucker, etc are all the type of player that Poile liked to bring in. Even got a couple of reclamation projects in Barrie and Beaverboy for good measure, neither of which worked just like in Poile's tenure.

The underlying parts of the organization haven't changed, coaches, scouts, management, heck even the owner has been involved for a couple of years now.

Trotz may do some things differently in the offseason but so far I haven't really seen anything that I would see is that far from the old Preds way of doing things. When he starts trading guys like Saros then we can start talking about things being done differently. I doubt he does though, gotta build from the goal out remember?

Completely different seems quite overstated. To me it’s putting a slightly more modern veneer on the classic Preds way of wanting guys who buy into the system and overcooking our prospects. Trotz has said some things that make it seem like he’s changing the way we operate but in practice I don’t see it. Like you said it’s only been one season though so we’ll see what he has in store for this year. To this point the Lavi era under Poile was much more of a departure than anything else we have ever done though in my opinion.

Yeah the Lavi era was the first time I felt like the organization turned left instead of right. Now this offseason may prove differently but this season feels a whole lot like we are just getting back on the main road we diverged off of when Trotz left.

 

[Scoresberg]

Trotz may do some things differently in the offseason but so far I haven't really seen anything that I would see is that far from the old Preds way of doing things. When he starts trading guys like Saros then we can start talking about things being done differently. I doubt he does though, gotta build from the goal out remember?

This is my main area of concern as well. Trotz came in looking like he's really going to shuffle the deck and while he did buy Duchene out and trade Joey, he brought in multiple veteran pieces to replace them. Even in the draft he said "I want to take some swings, I can find you 3rd-4th liners", and I've never seen more "safe" picks than we did last year in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. No swings whatsoever.

And all the talk about rebuilding and bringing in some elite talent, so far I'm not seeing much. Completely contradictory as to what he said, he reverted into the Preds way and build a mediocre team full of veterans.

All-in-all, even under "new" management and supposedly a more risk-taker one, I'm not seeing a path to success here or anything that would be "different" under Trotz. During the summer, Trotz will bring in a few veteran UFAs and we will roll into next season with essentially the same team. We will end up somewhere in the 14-20 range again.

These are our standings placements over the last few years. I'll let you be the judge whether this is a team heading into ANYWHERE:

2023-2024: 11
2022-2023: 18
2021-2022: 16
2020-2021: 13
2019-2020: 16

 

[Kat Predator]

I wouldn't say Poile wasn't a risk taker. He took gambles on reclamation projects, guys without "NHL size", guys who had off-ice issues, etc. He wasn't afraid to be active at the TDL, even rather extensively and when the team was playing fairly well.

I tend to think of GMs like Ron Francis when I think of risk adverse. A GM who values every draft pick as more valuable than gold. Views the cap as money coming out of his wallet. For whom trades, other than for more draft picks, are never the jackpot return expected.

 

[Marty Party]

Bridgestone is sprouting...it's the off season.

 

[ShagDaddy]