Nash and the Ref?

[Captain Leaf]

I would like to see Nash admit his mistake publicly. I think if he does not say "im sorry for going to far" it will haunt him for the rest of his NHL carear...... If there ever is an NHL again.

Shirley your not serious.

 

[BigE]

Right when you used the word "anyone."

Oh you're right, sorry...I did say anyone. What I meant was most. Do you always pick on one word? If four posts add up to more or less the same thing, do you still only use one as a judge of opinion?

If you're this picky on the board, I'd hate to think what your husband must deal with.

Get on with it already! I'm not a biased homer like some others but I must say that there are many on this board (again not all, I hope your comprehension is up for this ladies...) clamoring for Rick's punishment as if he were the second coming of satan. I doubt there would be nearly this much fuss from any of you were it a player involved from your country.

Nash deserves to be suspended but would you truly be willing to say the same thing? Or would you just spin your tires in the mud like some of the other homers that you've so labeled?

What's the point, by the way, in continuing this? It wasn't you that I was questioning, it's perfectly reasonable for him to be suspended and I've said it since I saw the footage - like any reasonable evaluation would require.

Just like on the ice, everybody is the next Tie Domi until you ask them to drop their gloves.

 

[Matt Foley*]

Shirley your not serious.

Yes, he is serious; and quit calling him Shirley.

 

[norrisnick]

Oh you're right, sorry...I did say anyone. What I meant was most. Do you always pick on one word? If four posts add up to more or less the same thing, do you still only use one as a judge of opinion?

If you're this picky on the board, I'd hate to think what your husband must deal with.

Get on with it already! I'm not a biased homer like some others but I must say that there are many on this board (again not all, I hope your comprehension is up for this ladies...) clamoring for Rick's punishment as if he were the second coming of satan. I doubt there would be nearly this much fuss from any of you were it a player involved from your country.

Nash deserves to be suspended but would you truly be willing to say the same thing? Or would you just spin your tires in the mud like some of the other homers that you've so labeled?

What's the point, by the way, in continuing this? It wasn't you that I was questioning, it's perfectly reasonable for him to be suspended and I've said it since I saw the footage - like any reasonable evaluation would require.

Just like on the ice, everybody is the next Tie Domi until you ask them to drop their gloves.

You asked, I answered.

I believe the IIHF blew the call and beyond that don't really care, though you seem quite worked up on the matter.

 

[Macman]

What's funny about this thread, is that you have a handful of blatant team Canada homers (Captain Leaf, Macman, etc.) making every excuse in the book for Nash, while basically everyone else (aside from a few loons like Wassup77), from practically every nationality and background represented on this board, calling this for the disgrace that it is.

You really should read the thread before labelling people. I'm on the record as saying Nash should have been suspended. If that makes me a homer, then I guess I have to move to Sweden.

 

[Macman]

Jagr should have been suspended for that. But what sort of logic are you using saying that this Nash incident now should be forgotten, because Jagr did not get punished some years ago on an incident that most of us had not even seen? People should have brought that to everyones attention back then, and Jagr should have been suspended. Simple as that. It does not justify Nash's actions at all.

I'm not trying to justify Nash's action at all. In fact I condemn them and he SHOULD have been suspended. What I also condemn, though, is the hypocrisy of many European fans and the hypocrisy of the Swedish media and Swedish team.

You're absolutely right, people should have brought up the Jagr incident, but they didn't did they? And I think we all know why. And please don't tell me nobody saw it because it happened on a much bigger stage than the worlds and the existence of the video proves somebody saw it. And besides, we're seeing it now and where are the howls of outrage from the same posters who were quick to jump all over Nash because he's Canadian -- and we all know they're a bunch of toothless, talentless thugs.

I hate to keep harping on the Perezhogin incident, but it speaks volumes about the hypocrisy I'm talking about. A man clubs a man in the face with his stick, is damn lucky he didn't kill him, gets suspended by the AHL and that suspension isn't being honoured by either the Russian Hockey Federation or the IIHF. That's the real disgrace and I think you've already tried to defend it by saying he missed the remainder of last season. Well, sorry, but he's still suspended and it's being ignored by the European media, its fans and the same sanctimonious Swedish officials who seem to believe that a half-hearted hook on a referee is going to scar kids more than the sight of a man convulsing on the ice like a clubbed baby seal.

Kudos to the Canadian fans who overwhelmingly have condemned what Nash did. I wonder how many European fans can say the same about Perozhogin? The silence continues to deafen.

 

[BigE]

I'm not trying to justify Nash's action at all. In fact I condemn them and he SHOULD have been suspended. What I also condemn, though, is the hypocrisy of many of European fans and the hypocrisy of the Swedish media and Swedish team.

You're absolutely right, people should have brought up the Jagr incident, but they didn't did they? And I think we all know why. And please don't tell me nobody saw it because it happened on a much bigger stage than the worlds and the existence of the video proves somebody saw it. And besides, we're seeing it now and where are the howls of outrage from the same posters who were quick to jump all over Nash because he's Canadian -- and we all know they're a bunch of toothless, talentless thugs.

I hate to keep harping on the Perezhogin incident, but it speaks volumes about the hypocrisy I'm talking about. A man clubs a man in the face with his stick, is damn lucky he didn't kill him, gets suspended by the AHL and that suspension isn't being honoured by either Russian Hockey Federation or the IIHF. That's the real disgrace and I think you've already tried to defend it by saying he missed the remainder of last season. Well, sorry, but he's still suspended and it's being ignored by the European media, its fans and the same sanctimonious Swedish officials who seem to believe that a half-hearted hook of a referee is going to scar kids more than the sight of man convulsing on the ice like a clubbed baby seal.

Kudos to the Canadian fans who overwhelmingly have condemned what Nash did. I wonder how many European fans can say the same about Perozhogin? The silence continues to deafen.

Excellent post.

 

[Everest]

Nash doesn't owe anyone an apology(according to IIHF).They called it incidental contact,most people see it differently...(as do I)but that doesn't matter.
If you think about it(which clearly many have not)...The IIHF investigation ruled in favor of Mr. Bulanov...as the referee and alleged victim... made the initial decision not to penalize nash (had Bulanov felt it was intentional contact he would have issued a gross misc. pen.). Popuar consensus (and common sense)says that Bulanov botched the call...but the IIHF couldn't really "overrule" Bulanov...there hands were tied by the original non-call.
THAT is why there was no suspension...Bulanov felt it wasn't intentional...look closely at the footage...How could he mistake THAT as accidental?
The only answer I have is...It was a chaotic,"flash of action(s)"...many players involved and many things happening at the same time (thats hockey for you Mr. Bulanov)...Bulanov was focusing his attention "up the ice" and Nash circles in behind him...Nash's stick(from Bulanov's angle)becomes entangled under Bulanov's arm...Bulanov doesn't even address Nash...he doesn't look back at him...he removes the stick from his person...after "getting freed up" Bulanov continues to skate up ice...Bulanov's actions DO,in fact,suggest that he(Bulanov)...saw/felt/sensed NOTHING malicous/intentional was happening.
Therefore,Your Honor....I submit that my client (Team Canada) be formally acquitted on all charges. That is all.

 

[RorschachWJK]

I'm not trying to justify Nash's action at all. In fact I condemn them and he SHOULD have been suspended. What I also condemn, though, is the hypocrisy of many of European fans and the hypocrisy of the Swedish media and Swedish team.

You're absolutely right, people should have brought up the Jagr incident, but they didn't did they? And I think we all know why. And please don't tell me nobody saw it because it happened on a much bigger stage than the worlds and the existence of the video proves somebody saw it. And besides, we're seeing it now and where are the howls of outrage from the same posters who were quick to jump all over Nash because he's Canadian -- and we all know they're a bunch of toothless, talentless thugs.

I hate to keep harping on the Perezhogin incident, but it speaks volumes about the hypocrisy I'm talking about. A man clubs a man in the face with his stick, is damn lucky he didn't kill him, gets suspended by the AHL and that suspension isn't being honoured by either Russian Hockey Federation or the IIHF. That's the real disgrace and I think you've already tried to defend it by saying he missed the remainder of last season. Well, sorry, but he's still suspended and it's being ignored by the European media, its fans and the same sanctimonious Swedish officials who seem to believe that a half-hearted hook of a referee is going to scar kids more than the sight of man convulsing on the ice like a clubbed baby seal.

Kudos to the Canadian fans who overwhelmingly have condemned what Nash did. I wonder how many European fans can say the same about Perozhogin? The silence continues to deafen.

I have always condemned actions like that, regardless of who is doing them. People like Perezhogin, Bobby Clarke, Ulf Samuelsson etc. should be/should have been banned for life from hockey. People like Jagr, Nash et al. should get stiff suspensions for their actions.

The silence continues to deafen because the Nash incident happened right here in the present and the others are things of the past. People like to talk about current things.

 

[norrisnick]

Nash doesn't owe anyone an apology(according to IIHF).They called it incidental contact,most people see it differently...(as do I)but that doesn't matter.
If you think about it(which clearly many have not)...The IIHF investigation ruled in favor of Mr. Bulanov...as the referee and alleged victim... made the initial decision not to penalize nash (had Bulanov felt it was intentional contact he would have issued a gross misc. pen.). Popuar consensus (and common sense)says that Bulanov botched the call...but the IIHF couldn't really "overrule" Bulanov...there hands were tied by the original non-call.
THAT is why there was no suspension...Bulanov felt it wasn't intentional...look closely at the footage...How could he mistake THAT as accidental?
The only answer I have is...It was a chaotic,"flash of action(s)"...many players involved and many things happening at the same time (thats hockey for you Mr. Bulanov)...Bulanov was focusing his attention "up the ice" and Nash circles in behind him...Nash's stick(from Bulanov's angle)becomes entangled under Bulanov's arm...Bulanov doesn't even address Nash...he doesn't look back at him...he removes the stick from his person...after "getting freed up" Bulanov continues to skate up ice...Bulanov's actions DO,in fact,suggest that he(Bulanov)...saw/felt/sensed NOTHING malicous/intentional was happening.
Therefore,Your Honor....I submit that my client (Team Canada) be formally acquitted on all charges. That is all.

The IIHF's hands were not tied. Organizing bodies have issued suspensions on unpenalized plays many many times before.

Just because a ref doesn't realize he's being intentionally hooked by a player, doesn't mean he wasn't. A review should have caught it. Canada got the case thrown out on account of incompetence of the courts. That is all.

 

[Macman]

The silence continues to deafen because the Nash incident happened right here in the present and the others are things of the past. People like to talk about current things.

That's a complete copout and you know it. Once again, Perozhogin is suspended now in North America and the Russian federation and the IIHF have chosen to ignore it. It doesn't get anymore current than that.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

I'm not trying to justify Nash's action at all. In fact I condemn them and he SHOULD have been suspended. What I also condemn, though, is the hypocrisy of many of European fans and the hypocrisy of the Swedish media and Swedish team.

You're absolutely right, people should have brought up the Jagr incident, but they didn't did they? And I think we all know why. And please don't tell me nobody saw it because it happened on a much bigger stage than the worlds and the existence of the video proves somebody saw it. And besides, we're seeing it now and where are the howls of outrage from the same posters who were quick to jump all over Nash because he's Canadian -- and we all know they're a bunch of toothless, talentless thugs.

I hate to keep harping on the Perezhogin incident, but it speaks volumes about the hypocrisy I'm talking about. A man clubs a man in the face with his stick, is damn lucky he didn't kill him, gets suspended by the AHL and that suspension isn't being honoured by either Russian Hockey Federation or the IIHF. That's the real disgrace and I think you've already tried to defend it by saying he missed the remainder of last season. Well, sorry, but he's still suspended and it's being ignored by the European media, its fans and the same sanctimonious Swedish officials who seem to believe that a half-hearted hook on a referee is going to scar kids more than the sight of man convulsing on the ice like a clubbed baby seal.

Kudos to the Canadian fans who overwhelmingly have condemned what Nash did. I wonder how many European fans can say the same about Perozhogin? The silence continues to deafen.

How about the NHL ignoring Hasek's lifetime ban from a European roller hockey league. I don't recall too many North Americans clamouring for him to be banned from the NHL.

 

[RorschachWJK]

That's a complete copout and you know it. Once again, Perozhogin is suspended now in North America and the Russian federation and the IIHF have chosen to ignore it. It doesn't get anymore current than that.

True, but I was talking about posters here and regular joes, not about the IIHF or the Russian federation.

 

[Vladiator]

I'm not trying to justify Nash's action at all. In fact I condemn them and he SHOULD have been suspended. What I also condemn, though, is the hypocrisy of many European fans and the hypocrisy of the Swedish media and Swedish team.

You're absolutely right, people should have brought up the Jagr incident, but they didn't did they? And I think we all know why. And please don't tell me nobody saw it because it happened on a much bigger stage than the worlds and the existence of the video proves somebody saw it. And besides, we're seeing it now and where are the howls of outrage from the same posters who were quick to jump all over Nash because he's Canadian -- and we all know they're a bunch of toothless, talentless thugs.

I hate to keep harping on the Perezhogin incident, but it speaks volumes about the hypocrisy I'm talking about. A man clubs a man in the face with his stick, is damn lucky he didn't kill him, gets suspended by the AHL and that suspension isn't being honoured by either Russian Hockey Federation or the IIHF. That's the real disgrace and I think you've already tried to defend it by saying he missed the remainder of last season. Well, sorry, but he's still suspended and it's being ignored by the European media, its fans and the same sanctimonious Swedish officials who seem to believe that a half-hearted hook on a referee is going to scar kids more than the sight of man convulsing on the ice like a clubbed baby seal.

Kudos to the Canadian fans who overwhelmingly have condemned what Nash did. I wonder how many European fans can say the same about Perozhogin? The silence continues to deafen.

Why are we talking about Perezhogin? Two incidents are totally different. Perezhogin's is off Beruzzi's kind and I am sure he has already been condemned on this boards. I am also sure that no Canadians have been defending him - but some still defend Beruzzi.

Decision not recognised in Russia? Would a Russian decision be recognised in NHL, leave alone AHL? Is Russian contract law recognised in NA? (see Zherdev playing in while still under a contract with CSKA).

The bottomline is that Nash tried to intimidate the referee. Was it in NHL, he would have been beaten up by someone from the other team and would definitely get suspended. But in Europe he does not have a respect for everyone.

 

[Macman]

Would a Russian decision be recognised in NHL, leave alone AHL? Is Russian contract law recognised in NA? (see Zherdev playing in while still under a contract with CSKA).

An arbitrator ruled there was no evidence Zherdev had a contract with CSKA. If he hadn't, Zherdev wouldn't have been able to play.

 

[Canuck21t]

I have always condemned actions like that, regardless of who is doing them. People like Perezhogin, Bobby Clarke, Ulf Samuelsson etc. should be/should have been banned for life from hockey. People like Jagr, Nash et al. should get stiff suspensions for their actions.

The silence continues to deafen because the Nash incident happened right here in the present and the others are things of the past. People like to talk about current things.

True, people like to talk about current things but why at the time that Jagr pushed the linesman, nobody, not even a hypocrite Swede, said a beep about it? If it didn't traumatized the fragile Swedish kids, it nonetheless gave a bad exemple. Yet nobody cared because the guilty party was an European, innocent, angelic European. But now because it's a Canadian, the outraged! Before the Jagr clip, most Euros talked about how Canadians get away with murder, but now we saw that Euros sometime get away too and with no publicity on top of that, the condemnation is now back to Nash exclusively. Why? This double standard is too obvious and I cannot take European media, fans and organizations seriously anymore. The little respect I had completely vanished.

P.S. I believe Nash should have been suspended but the hypocrisy surrounding this angers me even more.

 

[psycho_dad*]

not even a hypocrite Swede, said a beep about it? If it didn't traumatized the fragile Swedish kids, it nonetheless gave a bad exemple. Yet nobody cared because the guilty party was an European, innocent, angelic European. But now because it's a Canadian, the outraged! Before the Jagr clip, most Euros talked about how Canadians get away with murder, but now we saw that Euros sometime get away too and with no publicity on top of that, the condemnation is now back to Nash exclusively. Why? This double standard is too obvious and I cannot take European media, fans and organizations seriously anymore. The little respect I had completely vanished.

Jesus christ man, get a grip. The second I saw the Jagr clip, I condemned his actions. It is completely idiotic to make this into a nationality debate which it clearly is not. Why do you even think, that europeans would defend europeans for being europeans? Europe is not a united states of something. I would much rather defend a Canadian, than a swede. That's one easy comparison to make too since I've lived in Canada for some time, and rest of the time I have lived in Swedens neighbour. There is no "us against them" mentality at least in this part of europe...at least not yet. I am sure that it will eventually go to that too, if european union becomes one nation at some point. But you really have a wrong idea about how united the europeans are. You said that you have no respect for european organizations because of the Jagr incident, but wasn't that Jagr incident in Salt lake city, under NHL supervision? Or where?

And to the one who was worried why there was no posts about Perezhogin, please use the search option. That incident was widely discussed on this board, and condemned by for example people like me. Perezhogin got punished, he just moved to another continent later and was allowed to play for some reason. I did not say that the NHL should ban Rick Nash either for doing something in the wch, I just said he should have been punished in the world championships where he made his mistake.

 

[wassup77]

Why is this topic still active? It's over people...

 

[psycho_dad*]

Why is this topic still active? It's over people...

If you'd bother to read what has been written, you would also know why this topic is still alive. The Nash situation is over, but we can discuss the incompetence of IIHF in general.

 

[wassup77]

If you'd bother to read what has been written, you would also know why this topic is still alive. The Nash situation is over, but we can discuss the incompetence of IIHF in general.

its not incompetence at all. IIHF made the right decission. You should just let it go.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

I can not fathom how any fan of hockey would prefer to see Mr. Nash suitin’ it in the press box, than out there playing the game.

Just because he is Rick Nash, he should be able to break the rules like this without punishment?

its not incompetence at all. IIHF made the right decission. You should just let it go.

Yes, it's right to let players get away with abusing officials.

The biggest reason the IIHF has clearly dropped the ball on this issue, is because of the increasing amount of officials, especially at the minor hockey level (and even in different sports), being physically abused by players, fans, parents, coaches, and anybody who wishes to get their hands on a ref who has somehow pissed somebody off with his judgment during a hockey game.

There is a reason why state after state (or province after province) is making laws against physically abusing sports officials. That's right, in an increasing number of places, people will go to jail if they touch a game official with any ill intention. I'm not saying that Rick Nash's actions are worthy of such legal punishment. However, if things like this get very wrongly labelled as accidental and at a high level like the World Championships, little Rick Nash fans on skates will think it is alright for them to go after a referee if they don't like a call. If you don't believe me, pay attention to some sports officiating websites, and see the near-daily news stories about the latest sports official who has been attacked. As a referee myself, the increasing trend has me a bit worried, especially at elite levels where I admit I wouldn't last too long in a tilt with some of the players.

 

[wassup77]

Just because he is Rick Nash, he should be able to break the rules like this without punishment?




Yes, it's right to let players get away with abusing officials.

The biggest reason the IIHF has clearly dropped the ball on this issue, is because of the increasing amount of officials, especially at the minor hockey level (and even in different sports), being physically abused by players, fans, parents, coaches, and anybody who wishes to get their hands on a ref who has somehow pissed somebody off with his judgment during a hockey game.

There is a reason why state after state (or province after province) is making laws against physically abusing sports officials. That's right, in an increasing number of places, people will go to jail if they touch a game official with any ill intention. I'm not saying that Rick Nash's actions are worthy of such legal punishment. However, if things like this get very wrongly labelled as accidental and at a high level like the World Championships, little Rick Nash fans on skates will think it is alright for them to go after a referee if they don't like a call. If you don't believe me, pay attention to some sports officiating websites, and see the near-daily news stories about the latest sports official who has been attacked. As a referee myself, the increasing trend has me a bit worried, especially at elite levels where I admit I wouldn't last too long in a tilt with some of the players.

Ok, I guess you're right about that. However I don't think Nash intention was to hurt the referee at all. Just to stop him since he thought the referee was escaping from the situation. That shouldn't be alowed but maybe giving him fines or something whould be good. But not suspension!

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Ok, I guess you're right about that. However I don't think Nash intention was to hurt the referee at all. Just to stop him since he thought the referee was escaping from the situation. That shouldn't be alowed but maybe giving him fines or something whould be good. But not suspension!

Damn right the referee was escaping the situation. Aside from assessing Unsportsmanlike penalties, that's what he's trained to do in potential situations of verbal conflict. Rick Nash had no right whatsoever to even think of laying a hand on him.

Again, it does not matter what Nash's intention was. You do not touch a game with any ill intention official. Period.

In such situations, you need suspensions. Fines send no message, especially to a player with millions in his pocket. Remember Randy Moss when the NFL fined him $10k during the playoffs for his Green Bay "moon"? Moss said, "Ten grand. That's nothing to me." That, and I don't think the IIHF can fine players given the fact that players at these tournaments are not paid for their services. The only thing the IIHF could do is fine Hockey Canada, but that doesn't send much of a message to Rick Nash and the rest of the hockey world that you cannot touch officials. After all, when given just a fine, you can still play the game.

 

[Macman]

And to the one who was worried why there was no posts about Perezhogin, please use the search option. That incident was widely discussed on this board, and condemned by for example people like me.

I never said the incident itself wasn't discussed or condemned. I'm saying he is still under suspension and that suspension is being ignored in Europe and there's no justification for that, despite the fact you keep trying.

Perezhogin got punished, he just moved to another continent later and was allowed to play for some reason.

For some reason. I wonder what that is. Meanwhile Bertuzzi isn't allowed to play in Europe. For some reason.

 

[psycho_dad*]

For some reason. I wonder what that is. Meanwhile Bertuzzi isn't allowed to play in Europe. For some reason.

Perezhogin played in Russia. I am pretty sure they could have bent the rules for Bert also if he went to Russia...not sure but thats how I feel. Russia and "europe" are two different things, if you have not noticed.

I still fail to see your logic though....what does suspending Nash from world championships and Perezhogin playing in Russia have in common? How are these two incidents related, and why should they even be mentioned together? Nobody suggested Nash should be banned from practising hockey anywhere....many of us just hoped he would have gotten some sort of suspension conserning the world championships. Just like Perezhogin got a suspension for his horrible act.

Suggesting that europeans would have some sort of "us against them" mentality towards north america is very far fetched, and someone saying so sounds ignorant to me. Why would people of this continent suddenly get some sort of "WE!" spirit when they have never been united? You can bet your ass that I would rather defend a Canadian than a Russian, just because of our history.