Nash and the Ref?

[Macman]

Perezhogin played in Russia. I am pretty sure they could have bent the rules for Bert also if he went to Russia...not sure but thats how I feel. Russia and "europe" are two different things, if you have not noticed.

Well, as least you agree the Russians are "bending" the rules, or the spirit of the rules. That's a start. So again, where's the outrage?

I still fail to see your logic though....what does suspending Nash from world championships and Perezhogin playing in Russia have in common? How are these two incidents related, and why should they even be mentioned together? Nobody suggested Nash should be banned from practising hockey anywhere....many of us just hoped he would have gotten some sort of suspension conserning the world championships. Just like Perezhogin got a suspension for his horrible act.

You're either incredibly naive or arguing for the sake or argument. How are these two incidents related? They're not really. What Perozhogin did was much, much worse than what Nash did, but there wasn't a peep from anybody but me when he was named to the Russian preliminary roster despite the fact he is still under suspension in North America. There is a double standard. If you can't see that, then I suggest you take a long look in the mirror. There was tons of debate on these very boards about whether or not Bertuzzi should have been allowed to play at these worlds and predictably most Europeans said no. Yet not a word was said about Perozhogin. And you don't think bias played a role? Keep dreamin.'

 

[psycho_dad*]

Where do you think this bias comes from? Do you honestly think, that a fan of say Germany will root for Perezhogins right to play and deny Bertuzzi from playing? And if you think so, why on earth? Youre calling me naive, because I don't see a european conspiracy and hatred towards Canada. I think you have no clue about europe if you keep making these statements. I feel much closer to Canada than for example Slovenia or Spain or whatever example you want to bring in. I don't know if there are people who feel they are "europeans" and feel more connected to Italy than Canada. There is no United states of Europe, and no national feeling among europeans. I am pretty sure that most of the hockey loving europe feels just as strongly about Canada than they do about Denmark or whatever. There simply is no bias.

There was an outrage when Perezhogin did what he did, and we all condemned his actions. I did not even know he was in the preliminary roster this year. Maybe thats why there was no outrage? People simply dont follow what's Perezhogin up to. He did what he did in AHL (wasnt it?) and he got suspended right there and then. He did not play a single game after that, in that particular league. Has anyone here suggested that Rick Nash should receive a worldwide ban from hockey? People just wanted to get him suspended from the tournament where he did his act..that would have been sufficient. Booted from the tournament, or just 2-3 games maybe...doesn't matter as long as they did SOMETHING to send a message. Would there be an outrage if Nash would have been booted out of world championships but they would let him play in the NHL? Of course not...he would have "served his sentence" already.

We dont even need to discuss which one of the incidents was worse, nobody is trying to compare that swing of Perezhogins to this small time hooking the ref thing, but both are acts that should get a reaction. Perezhogin got a reaction...he was banned for what..a year from playing in NA? Was there some sort of agreement that the penalty should carry over to russian league as well? Probably not, since Perezhogin played in Russia. If it was up to me, he would just simply sit out and not play anywhere before his sentence was done, but it's not up to me, and apparently not to NHL either. There is no hypocrisy if I wanted Nash thrown out of the world championships for what he did in the world championships. It's not like I was the one who gave Perezhogin the right to play in RSL this year.

Please point out the hypocrisy in that, because I sure don't see it.

PS. There IS prejudice against USA here in "europe" and all over the world because of their foreign politics, but I'm sorry...Canadians are not invited in that

 

[Epsilon]

Well, as least you agree the Russians are "bending" the rules, or the spirit of the rules. That's a start. So again, where's the outrage?



You're either incredibly naive or arguing for the sake or argument. How are these two incidents related? They're not really. What Perozhogin did was much, much worse than what Nash did, but there wasn't a peep from anybody but me when he was named to the Russian preliminary roster despite the fact he is still under suspension in North America. There is a double standard. If you can't see that, then I suggest you take a long look in the mirror. There was tons of debate on these very boards about whether or not Bertuzzi should have been allowed to play at these worlds and predictably most Europeans said no. Yet not a word was said about Perozhogin. And you don't think bias played a role? Keep dreamin.'

The difference is that the NHL is the most powerful hockey league in the world and the IIHF would like to do everything possible to maintain good relations with them.Nno one cares about a minor league like the AHL. You think if the CHL suspended a player for a year the IIHF would actually enforce that? Had the NHL been the league where Perezhogin got suspended there is no chance he would have been allowed to play.

 

[The Benchwarmer]

PS. There IS prejudice against USA here in "europe" and all over the world because of their foreign politics, but I'm sorry...Canadians are not invited in that

Ummm I'm European and to be honest, I'd love any Euro team to win over Canada and the US. I gotta stick with my European brothers.

I used to be a big fan of Canada but after seeing how a lot of the Canadian fans/media behaved during the after the WJC I can no longer support Canada.

Canada and Canadians are great, but they just become a bit nutty when hockey is involved I think.

 

[BigE]

I hate this we vs. you **** and that's the primary reason this thread is still going. In case you guys haven't figured it out yet (Psycho Dad in particular), this is the relation between Perezoghin and the Nash incident. Many on here are suggesting Canada is favoured by the IIHF, examples of Perezoghin and Bertuzzi would seem to contradict that.

This argument is no longer abouot what Nash did, it's about a few users trying to suggest that Canada is somehow treated better than everyone else.

Hope that helps.

 

[Pepper]

This argument is no longer abouot what Nash did, it's about a few users trying to suggest that Canada is somehow treated better than everyone else.

Well there's a strong case for the latter, there are some very blatant cases where Canadians have been throwing some political weight to affect both on-ice reffing and cabinet games.

I personally feel that the latter was the case with Rick Nash.

 

[An Ape called Yoko]

This argument is no longer abouot what Nash did, it's about a few users trying to suggest that Canada is somehow treated better than everyone else.

A few????????? Try most of the people, besides canadians, who can´t think outside the box. I have so no respect of people who can´t be unpartial. Are you so blind?

Is it so hard to admit that you actually have advantages that other countries don´t???

 

[Rocky Saginuts]

A few????????? Try most of the people, besides canadians, who can´t think outside the box. I have so no respect of people who can´t be unpartial. Are you so blind?

Is it so hard to admit that you actually have advantages that other countries don´t???

I seriously must be watching a different game. I have no idea where people even get the slightest idea that Canada gets any preferential treatment.

Let's see - Are you talking about when Gagne got blasted from behind into the boards after a goal? Are you talking about the Slovak penalty shot? How about the 2-man Slovak power play?
Or even Nash's disallowed goal - it was the right call, but a cheating team with such "power" would have gotten that call too, right?

 

[senate]

I have so no respect of people who can´t be unpartial.

Isn't that a paradox?

 

[BigE]

Isn't that a paradox?

This sentence is false.

 

[HF2002]

A few????????? Try most of the people, besides canadians, who can´t think outside the box. I have so no respect of people who can´t be unpartial. Are you so blind?

Is it so hard to admit that you actually have advantages that other countries don´t???

And yet in international competition Canada sees a steady stream of players who go straight to the penalty box. We spend more time on the PK than any other of the main hockey nations.

There's no doubt that every team draws penalties. There's no doubt every team gets away with a few. IMO, there's nothing more disgusting than intentionally going out to injure the opponent because it's the only way to stop him.

Other than this Nash incident (and like every other poster here I think he should have been suspended) can you please explain why you say Canada gets all kinds of advantages. What are these advantages? Help me... no, help us... to be impartial.

 

[Habs Icing]

Parize was one of them, I think. Same for Richard Martin. Or was it Gilbert Perreault...Can't remember.

You don't know what you're talking about!!! And I'll bet my dollars to your donuts you're not old enough to have watched those games. Richard Martin and Gil Perreault weren't old enough to play junior hockey in 72. And It's Parise, not Parize. And he's the one you accused of hitting a ref with his stick. The Problem, buddy, is that he didn't him. He was frustrated by the reffing and lifted his stick to hit him but skated away and never touched him. Get your facts right before you open your mouth.

 

[Canuck21t]

Ummm I'm European and to be honest, I'd love any Euro team to win over Canada and the US. I gotta stick with my European brothers.

I used to be a big fan of Canada but after seeing how a lot of the Canadian fans/media behaved during the after the WJC I can no longer support Canada.

Canada and Canadians are great, but they just become a bit nutty when hockey is involved I think.

Nutty we sure are. Tell me if I'm wrong but I think Canadian hockey fans are like the opposite of the typical Canadian. In fact, I find most Canadians too modest and even having an inferiority complex. When it comes to hockey though, it's the opposite mentality.

 

[The Benchwarmer]

Nutty we sure are. Tell me if I'm wrong but I think Canadian hockey fans are like the opposite of the typical Canadian. In fact, I find most Canadians too modest and even having an inferiority complex. When it comes to hockey though, it's the opposite mentality.

YOU'VE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!

 

[Rocky Saginuts]

Nutty we sure are. Tell me if I'm wrong but I think Canadian hockey fans are like the opposite of the typical Canadian. In fact, I find most Canadians too modest and even having an inferiority complex. When it comes to hockey though, it's the opposite mentality.

Agreed. When the only other sports we are good at are curling and rythmic gymnastic, you can see why hockey means so much to us.

It is odd to see how hated we are on these boards though. When we win, it's because we're lucky or we cheat. When we lose....wait...we don't lose!

I guess, if you can't beat'em, whinje at them...

 

[wassup77]

Agreed. When the only other sports we are good at are curling and rythmic gymnastic, you can see why hockey means so much to us.

It is odd to see how hated we are on these boards though. When we win, it's because we're lucky or we cheat. When we lose....wait...we don't lose!

I guess, if you can't beat'em, whinje at them...

I love Canada though. I love to see your hockey talent. And I love to see you win. You don't even need to cheat. I just feel that in the past Canada have never been unlucky. They always have the pucks bouncing their way and the referee calls with them. Sometimes I just feel its a reason why it's like that. Cheaters!

 

[Pepper]

I don't think people here hate Canada (well some might do), it's just that after years of very dubious decisions both on and off the ice which seemingly have benefitted north-american teams, people are getting frustrated with it.

This is partly because of Canadian media, I've watched all WCH tournaments since 1991 and very often I found myself gasping after reading game recaps at Slam! or faceoff.com, it seemed like the journalists have been watching a totally different game and the game reports have been so red-white & biased that it wasn't even funny. I guess it's partly because few years ago WCH was not taken seriously in north-america and there had to be excuses for poor results and 'bad reffing against Canada' was the easiest excuse back then.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

I love Canada though. I love to see your hockey talent. And I love to see you win. You don't even need to cheat. I just feel that in the past Canada have never been unlucky. They always have the pucks bouncing their way and the referee calls with them. Sometimes I just feel its a reason why it's like that. Cheaters!

I think my favorite moment in hockey was Canadian Jr Nats thumping the Russian Juniors in the famous "lights out brawl."

 

[wilka91*]

I think my favorite moment in hockey was Canadian Jr Nats thumping the Russian Juniors in the famous "lights out brawl."

And my favorite moment is when Harry Sinden asked Bobby Clarke to go out and injure Kharlamov ... a very successful strategy.

 

[wassup77]

And my favorite moment is when Harry Sinden asked Bobby Clarke to go out and injure Kharlamov ... a very successful strategy.

reminds me of that time when Forsberg almost got murdered on the ice in the result of Canada turning arround the Final against Sweden and win.

when is this madness gonna stop?

 

[mcphee]

You don't know what you're talking about!!! And I'll bet my dollars to your donuts you're not old enough to have watched those games. Richard Martin and Gil Perreault weren't old enough to play junior hockey in 72. And It's Parise, not Parize. And he's the one you accused of hitting a ref with his stick. The Problem, buddy, is that he didn't him. He was frustrated by the reffing and lifted his stick to hit him but skated away and never touched him. Get your facts right before you open your mouth.

Hadfield then Perreault bailed on the team.Hadfield was booed for years, at least in Mtl. whenever he touched the puck. Neither had the slightest thing to do with moral judgements but in the way they were being used. I was 17 in that series and like a lot of Canadians, saw every minute and read every article I had access too [mainly the 2 Montreal English dailies at the time]. The Clarke incident was not a particularly pretty one. Ferguson,not Sinden,basically said 'Kharlamov is killing us, someone do something about him. 'Yeah Clarke slashed him. He slashed him, but then again, Clarke slashed someone or other just about every game he ever played. There really was no talk of targetting a player at the time. This came out years later when they started putting together videos of the series. There aren't many sports where star players aren't targeted. It's always happened in hockey, I'm told it happens in soccer and I know it happens in football. The Giants got into a Super Bowl shortly after Leonard Marshall nearly killed Joe Montana, and was surely high fived after the hit. There's no justification for cheapshotting someone, but it happens, and Canada doesn't have the only history of this. Canadian players were shocked to actually be kicked by the Russian players, the had never seen this before. Rules went out the window, players like Yvan Cournoyer were throwing punches. Cournoyer held bitterness from some of the events of that series years later and had to be coaxed into playing in a reunion game.

Mike Bossy had an interesting take on the Nash incident. Hockey Canada has spent a lot of $ on behavior issues in regards to hockey parents, and on ice behavior. In that this was Nash's second incident in a few weeks, he would have liked to see Hockey Canada take the high road and suspend him on their own. Now I can pretty well guess how most Cdn, fans will come down on Bossy, but it's something to think about. Set an example. I don't think I would've had the guts if I was Nicholson, but if you really want to show integrity at the highest level...

 

[Rocky Saginuts]

Good post McPhee - you know your stuff.

I disagree with one thing though - Hatfield was a prima donna who whined about ice-time and abandoned the team.
Perrault was a rookie who was essentially put in the press box.

His shining moment internationally was in '81, where he was far and way the best player against the Soviets. Unfortunately, he busted his leg, and Canada went on to be blasted in the final game (Mike Luit was drunk that day I think....).

 

[mcphee]

Good post McPhee - you know your stuff.

I disagree with one thing though - Hatfield was a prima donna who whined about ice-time and abandoned the team.
Perrault was a rookie who was essentially put in the press box.

His shining moment internationally was in '81, where he was far and way the best player against the Soviets. Unfortunately, he busted his leg, and Canada went on to be blasted in the final game (Mike Luit was drunk that day I think....).

I agree with your Hadfield/Perreault assessment. They both left because of icetime, but a vet like Hadfield is different from a rookie like Perreault. Hadfield was self centred and Perreault was ill advised. It's interesting to get the perspective of European posters about the series. Keep in mind that it was a different world then.The perception was that playing the Russians was the evil empire and there was no way you get a fair deal. You respected the Swedes/Finns/Czechs but hated the Russians. It never ocurred to us that there was a different perception. Take it a step further and imagine how the players felt. It's not an exagerration to say that they didn't feel 100% secure while in the Soviet Union. Sounds silly now, but times were different. You won't find anyone with a good word about Eagleson now, but when they rescued him from the scrum with the arena police and he gave the crowd the finger [give a jackass a chance to be a jackass and he usually will],there was a cheer in Canada.

 

[Marconius]

I love Canada though. I love to see your hockey talent. And I love to see you win. You don't even need to cheat. I just feel that in the past Canada have never been unlucky. They always have the pucks bouncing their way and the referee calls with them. Sometimes I just feel its a reason why it's like that. Cheaters!

Glad to see you enjoy Canadian talent. So now that the argument of referee favortism has been dismissed (Canada is usually on one of the most penalized teams in the tournament, dissallowed goals, unpenalized-after-whistle crosschecks), you feel that some divine force is causing pucks to bounce in our direction?

 

[RorschachWJK]

I think my favorite moment in hockey was Canadian Jr Nats thumping the Russian Juniors in the famous "lights out brawl."

You are being sarcastic, right?