Post-Game Talk: N.Y. Rangers @ T.B. Lightning 7:30 pm. (Amalie Arena)

[will1066]

Are we also looking for the smart bug?

The smart bug is evasive. And is obviously not David Quinn.

 

[will1066]

Obviously depends on his money demands, and sure he will have his bonehead games, but Hayes has played consistently enough over a large enough sample size to say relatively safely that he can be a keeper. I'd rather have a guy like him on the team who gives his level of performance on a relatively consistent basis versus a supremely talented future who shows period flashes of brilliance.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

The longevity thing is all up to you but it wasn't Orr's fault that other players kept clipping and kneeing him. The fact is just coming into the league as a rookie he could skate circles around practically every player in the league so his opponents started working on slowing him down. But really he was the best player in the league and the world for several years running. He missed the first Canada Cup because of injury but Canada doesn't win the second one without him and he was the best player in the tournament and he played that entire series on a bad knee. His career was practically over at that point. He won 7 (or was it 8?) Norris trophies in a row. I believe he won the Hart Trophy a couple times (unheard of for a defenseman) and the Ross at least once (maybe twice) which no defenseman has done before and none has done since.

....also I don't think Lemieux was nearly as good as Gretzky.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'll just say two things:

1) Regardless of how he received his injuries, I still stand by my original belief of longevity. Your final legacy is what it is. I mean, you can't blame Lemieux for his cancer either, which, whether or not you think he had potential to be on par with Gretzky, undoubtedly undermined his overall body of work.

2) Bringing up awards is not exactly the best way to prove a player was more impactful then Gretzky. He had 8 consecutive (9 overall) MVP's which is a record # for any North American professional sports league. He was also a 10X scoring champion. I think Gretzky's awards outweigh Orr's.

This isn't to belittle Orr, who is obviously one of the best players of all time, and in my opinion surely the greatest d-man, but I just don't think he was as good as Gretzky.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Anyways, back on topic.

After someone mentioned in the GDT last night that Tampa fans were laughing about the Rangers being their 'farm team' it got me thinking, I don't think there is one former Ranger I would want back, with their existing contracts, that currently plays on Tampa.

In fact, even if the Rangers were contenders this year, I don't think I'd be interested in adding any of them. McDonagh and Miller would be assets for a playoff run, but I have no interest in the back-end of those contracts, especially with McD who has a boataload of wear and tear on him.

 

[Webster]

So Shattenkirk got destroyed by Miller, I had no idea JT is such a tough guy..

And McDonagh scored on us, I bet he enjoyed it.

The trade turned out very well for those two, it doesn't have to be a negative thing for players.

 

[ThirdEye]

Anyways, back on topic.

After someone mentioned in the GDT last night that Tampa fans were laughing about the Rangers being their 'farm team' it got me thinking, I don't think there is one former Ranger I would want back, with their existing contracts, that currently plays on Tampa.

In fact, even if the Rangers were contenders this year, I don't think I'd be interested in adding any of them. McDonagh and Miller would be assets for a playoff run, but I have no interest in the back-end of those contracts, especially with McD who has a boataload of wear and tear on him.

McDonagh will only be 30 if all goes to plan and we're competing in 2 years or so. But yeah, the risk with him is he was on a steady decline before this season, so is this one just an aberration? It also doesn't hurt for your stat-line to be surrounded by all world talent

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

McDonagh will only be 30 if all goes to plan and we're competing in 2 years or so. But yeah, the risk with him is he was on a steady decline before this season, so is this one just an aberration? It also doesn't hurt for your stat-line to be surrounded by all world talent

Well, he'll be 31. And I don't think 'only 30' is really a thing anymore. Sure, 10-15 years ago, 30 was still in your prime for many guys, but now, the prime age is mid to late 20's. I also don't believe we'll be competitive in 2 years. A lot can happen, but this game really showed just how far we are from being a good team.

Lastly, McDonagh isn't even paired with Hedman from what I understand, so he is on the '2nd pairing.' Maybe in a more sheltered role he'd be an asset, but I still don't think at that price tag and the assumed risk with his age and wear, I'd be willing to take it on.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Shattenkirk. If the injury is serious will they call up someone as Brooks (I think) speculated today, or will they just ride it out with Smith. Moreover, what's the plan with trading him? If they aren't thinking about it, they sure should be.

 

[will1066]

So Shattenkirk got destroyed by Miller, I had no idea JT is such a tough guy..

And McDonagh scored on us, I bet he enjoyed it.

The trade turned out very well for those two, it doesn't have to be a negative thing for players.

Miller was always a decently physical player, talking about his board work. But Shatty is just brittle.

 

[will1066]

Well, he'll be 31. And I don't think 'only 30' is really a thing anymore. Sure, 10-15 years ago, 30 was still in your prime for many guys, but now, the prime age is mid to late 20's. I also don't believe we'll be competitive in 2 years. A lot can happen, but this game really showed just how far we are from being a good team.

Lastly, McDonagh isn't even paired with Hedman from what I understand, so he is on the '2nd pairing.' Maybe in a more sheltered role he'd be an asset, but I still don't think at that price tag and the assumed risk with his age and wear, I'd be willing to take it on.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Shattenkirk. If the injury is serious will they call up someone as Brooks (I think) speculated today, or will they just ride it out with Smith. Moreover, what's the plan with trading him? If they aren't thinking about it, they sure should be.

30 is the new 35. The league is going to be dominated by talented kids in the near future.

 

[ThirdEye]

Well, he'll be 31. And I don't think 'only 30' is really a thing anymore. Sure, 10-15 years ago, 30 was still in your prime for many guys, but now, the prime age is mid to late 20's. I also don't believe we'll be competitive in 2 years. A lot can happen, but this game really showed just how far we are from being a good team.

Lastly, McDonagh isn't even paired with Hedman from what I understand, so he is on the '2nd pairing.' Maybe in a more sheltered role he'd be an asset, but I still don't think at that price tag and the assumed risk with his age and wear, I'd be willing to take it on.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Shattenkirk. If the injury is serious will they call up someone as Brooks (I think) speculated today, or will they just ride it out with Smith. Moreover, what's the plan with trading him? If they aren't thinking about it, they sure should be.

I don't think this game showed much honestly... we're missing two top forwards and Tampa is an elite team - they make even good teams look bad sometimes

Problem we might have is guys like Chytil, Andersson, Howden and other young players not living up to the billing in any shape or form and guys like Pionk or ADA not progressing into stable, reliable D. Luckily we have a lot of depth right now with our prospects and probably will even moreso after this season, but yeah.... it's not easy building a championship team and while the future looks bright on the surface it's impossible to know what reality will actually be.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Lucid dreams.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Not part of my future

Should be.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Yeah I don’t know.

Maybe they’re hoping that eventually he works through it with all the minutes he’s playing

He eats minutes like a champ but I just don’t see what they’re seeing

Dan Girardi ate minutes like a champ and the results were still the same, as a Ranger. Absolutely terrible.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Dan Girardi ate minutes like a champ and the results were still the same, as a Ranger. Absolutely terrible.

Oh I agree

I’m a fan of Pionk so I hope he figures it out but it’s hard dismiss that this could be turning into a Girardi 2.0 scenario

 

[True Blue]

Well, he'll be 31. And I don't think 'only 30' is really a thing anymore. Sure, 10-15 years ago, 30 was still in your prime for many guys, but now, the prime age is mid to late 20's.

How can this be? You are saying that 15 years ago, 30 year olds were in better shape? Stronger? People in their 30s today are in much better shape than they were 15 years ago.

 

[Machinehead]

Howden has been really bad for like a month.

Am I the only one who's noticed?

 

[Rongomania]

He wasn't "baaaaad". He did let in 1 garbage goal. I don't see how anybody can realistically fault him on the first 2 Stammer goals. The other 2, you want him to come up with a big save on our turnovers, and he didn't, but they were far from garbage goals on poor play from him. He didn't have a great night to keep us in the game, but there was only 1 garbage/bad goal.

I think the young D and the bad veteran D don’t do him any favors either. Though every time I’ve seen him this year I’ve been quite impressed. That game was just a painful one to watch. I suppose you’re right though, not all totally his fault. He just definitely looked ‘behind’ a little tonight.

It really sucks though because Hank can clearly still play playoff hockey, but we desperately need to miss the playoffs by a long shot.

That rongo life.

 

[Rongomania]

Howden has been really bad for like a month.

Am I the only one who's noticed?

Would have no problem sending him down for a ‘confidence stint’.

 

[NCRanger]

How can this be? You are saying that 15 years ago, 30 year olds were in better shape? Stronger? People in their 30s today are in much better shape than they were 15 years ago.

It really has nothing to do with being in shape. The only players any GM wants who are over 30 are superstars, or 4th line "glue guys". The decent player over 30 costs too much and the same job can be done cheaper with a "kid".

There's also a ridiculous misconception out there that speed automatically = elite talent.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'll just say two things:

1) Regardless of how he received his injuries, I still stand by my original belief of longevity. Your final legacy is what it is. I mean, you can't blame Lemieux for his cancer either, which, whether or not you think he had potential to be on par with Gretzky, undoubtedly undermined his overall body of work.

2) Bringing up awards is not exactly the best way to prove a player was more impactful then Gretzky. He had 8 consecutive (9 overall) MVP's which is a record # for any North American professional sports league. He was also a 10X scoring champion. I think Gretzky's awards outweigh Orr's.

This isn't to belittle Orr, who is obviously one of the best players of all time, and in my opinion surely the greatest d-man, but I just don't think he was as good as Gretzky.

It's up to you how you decide what you decide. People a lot more often than not though dismiss those players who they've never seen play and I would suspect that you like most people here aren't old enough to have seen Bobby Orr play. That's not your fault any more than it was Orr's fault that his career was short and a very large part of that career he played hurt. In any case I think it's practically impossible for people to be fair to players they haven't seen and it doesn't surprise me at all when players from previous come up short in the comparisons department. Bobby Orr had an impact though at least as great as Gretzky's in his short time in the league. He was without any doubt the player of his era. Lemieux never quite reached Gretzky's impact on the game and they played pretty much at the same time.

 

[duhmetreE]

The good news... we're likely to get a 1st round pick if TB stays healthy

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The good news... we're likely to get a 1st round pick if TB stays healthy

Yup, and if Hayes and Zucc are dealt we could possibly have 4 first rounders this year. I'm really excited to see what this team will be in 2-3 years.

 

[Killem Dafoe]

Howden has been really bad for like a month.

Am I the only one who's noticed?

Yeah, he's cooled down a bit for sure. He had some chances last night, but shot about 67 feet too high on both. He's probably starting to freak out a little and he's gripping his stick a little too tight. Like Rongomania said, it might be good for him to be sent down for a little while. He would absolutely wreck the AHL.

On another note, does anyone have some consistency pills that maybe we can slip Kreider?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I don't think this game showed much honestly... we're missing two top forwards and Tampa is an elite team - they make even good teams look bad sometimes

Problem we might have is guys like Chytil, Andersson, Howden and other young players not living up to the billing in any shape or form and guys like Pionk or ADA not progressing into stable, reliable D. Luckily we have a lot of depth right now with our prospects and probably will even moreso after this season, but yeah.... it's not easy building a championship team and while the future looks bright on the surface it's impossible to know what reality will actually be.

I don't think the team isn't progressing properly, my issue is planning on being competitive in 2 years. I just don't see it. Unless we make some crazy trades and FA signings (totally plausible) these guys will need time to develop. Even if we project Chytil, Howden, Lias, and other guys currently in the NHL far exceed expectations, our other prospects and certainly those we just drafted, will need time to marinate in the NHL or even get significant time in the AHL. We have a lot of great prospects, but to think they're all going to be here and competing at a high level in 2 years is just crazy, at least to me.

How can this be? You are saying that 15 years ago, 30 year olds were in better shape? Stronger? People in their 30s today are in much better shape than they were 15 years ago.

What a strange reaction. It has nothing to do with their physical shape. Firstly, it's absolutely quantifiable and proven that the ages of players around the league has trended younger recently. I mean, just look at the ages of 'superstars' right now and it should be obvious.

I would say there are likely 2 reasons for this:

1) Salary cap forced teams to develop and promote younger players quickly to save money on the cap.

2) Relatedly, the wear and tear of playing in the NHL now begins at a younger age, therefore adding a lot more miles (especially to D-men) than in the past.

You should do more research, instead of just negatively reacting to my point (which again, is very likely true). Here is one easy to read piece and you can find many more.

Player Aging In The NHL: Is 32-Years-Old The New 25?

 

[aufheben]

The good news... we're likely to get a 1st round pick if TB stays healthy

We’ll see. Toronto is stacked too. Washington has the same team as last season. Pittsburgh is starting to get their shit together; Letang remembering how to play hockey could be real bad news for the rest of the East.

Boston
Toronto
Washington/Pittsburgh
Winnipeg/Nashville

That is an ugly road, and most of those teams are real dirty too.