Post-Game Talk: N.Y. Rangers @ T.B. Lightning 7:30 pm. (Amalie Arena)

[chosen]

What's the point of complaining about a player who doesn't suck?

What's the point of complaining about a player who sucks?

There is no point to any of this. It's about fans complaining about things that annoy them.

 

[Machinehead]

I have always thought that analytics are supposed to be an indicator and predictor of quality and success. If all it is, is a predictor of shot totals, I'm confused about why it is so important.

Because shooting more than your opponent is good. So is scoring more than your opponent. This is not rocket science.

Do you agree that he disappears more than any other Ranger?

Good luck finding anybody who agrees with that.

 

[Larrybiv]

The problem with this team is that it is not good during regulation and too good at the skills competition.

Here is a popular term. So why doesn't it translate?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Because shooting more than your opponent is good. So is scoring more than your opponent. This is not rocket science.



Good luck finding anybody who agrees with that.

How can a player who is such a driver of possession and have such a positive impact on his linemates that he lifts the numbers of his centers be the Ranger who disappears the most? None of that makes any sense.

 

[Larrybiv]

What's the point of complaining about a player who doesn't suck?

To make them play better......of course. You of all people don't know that? C'mon Machinehead......for someone that eats their own pubics (or whatever it was you ate) then you should KNOW that when we complain about a player that we actually "like and root for" it is with the sole intention of motivating them. Jeez. I thought you knew that.

 

[Larrybiv]

This is why you get on Staal, right? Because you KNOW he can be so much better than what he is giving.

 

[Larrybiv]

I have always thought that analytics are supposed to be an indicator and predictor of quality and success. If all it is, is a predictor of shot totals, I'm confused about why it is so important.

Do you agree that he disappears more than any other Ranger?

Can I step in here, with my 2 cents. I think everyone knows and has seen that Kreids "disappears" but you can only disappear if you actually see him from time to time. At least we see Kreids a lot more often than we did, cannot say the same for some others.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

My ex wife left me for someone who looks A LOT like Callahan

Sorry.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Have you ever seen Callahan and that *****ebag in the same place?

J/K man that sucks. But hey now you are free to be the "Euro Stalker."

You're right. Never thought of it that way! But yeah, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be here enriching HFNYR with my travel stories

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

But yeah, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be here enriching HFNYR with my travel stories

Great... now I hate your ex too...

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

It’s definitely a cap era issue. The OP was incorect that players wear down faster these days.

On the contrary, with premptive procedures, training, nutriton, etc. the older players in the league look younger than ever.

Their wiseness , however, at some point becomes cap detrimental.

It seems you have an issue with reading comprehension. Firstly, I pointed out that I was strictly speculating when guessing why this trend has occurred. To say it is 'definitely' a cap era issue is just absolutely asinine. There is not hard evidence that claims this to be the only factor. It is quite clearly an array of factors. As @Tawnos it very likely has to do with cap and also young players developing earlier or an increase in the talent level of players in general.

Moreover, and again, pure speculation since it's not quantifiable, but I would think that 15-20 years ago players may have been willing to use PED's more often. Hockey is well known for having been rather lax in policing this department, but the significant rise in players extending careers into their thirties largely coincided with baseball's PED epidemic. So, if I had to wager, it's likely a combination of the structure of the cap, less usage of PED's and highly developed players at younger ages.

It's just so insane to me, not only on this forum but in life in general, that people think their opinions are definitive. They are not. I have read a lot on this subject of the average age of NHL'rs and why the trend has gone the way it has gone and not one expert can definitively point to a singular aspect to explain it away.

Why do you hate Callahan, and why would you not want the 1st round pick?

Again, I said I want the first round pick in the post you quoted, so I'm not sure why you even asked that question. I was simply curious as to whether there is anyone who hates Tampa so much they wouldn't want it. I think it's a valid question for some fans.

I can't stand players that dive and Callahan is one of the most egregious in this category. I also was not a huge fan of how he handled contract negotiations when he left, although I try not to judge to hard in this category since it is business. Still, I must admit, it left a bad taste in my mouth. I still have some idealist beliefs that players who you invest a lot in could help you out by taking a little less money. It also really bothered me that the amount he re-upped for in Tampa was the same or even less than what was reported as the Rangers having offered.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

It seems you have an issue with reading comprehension. Firstly, I pointed out that I was strictly speculating when guessing why this trend has occurred. To say it is 'definitely' a cap era issue is just absolutely asinine. There is not hard evidence that claims this to be the only factor. It is quite clearly an array of factors. As @Tawnos it very likely has to do with cap and also young players developing earlier or an increase in the talent level of players in general.

Moreover, and again, pure speculation since it's not quantifiable, but I would think that 15-20 years ago players may have been willing to use PED's more often. Hockey is well known for having been rather lax in policing this department, but the significant rise in players extending careers into their thirties largely coincided with baseball's PED epidemic. So, if I had to wager, it's likely a combination of the structure of the cap, less usage of PED's and highly developed players at younger ages.

It's just so insane to me, not only on this forum but in life in general, that people think their opinions are definitive. They are not. I have read a lot on this subject of the average age of NHL'rs and why the trend has gone the way it has gone and not one expert can definitively point to a singular aspect to explain it away.



Again, I said I want the first round pick in the post you quoted, so I'm not sure why you even asked that question. I was simply curious as to whether there is anyone who hates Tampa so much they wouldn't want it. I think it's a valid question for some fans.

I can't stand players that dive and Callahan is one of the most egregious in this category. I also was not a huge fan of how he handled contract negotiations when he left, although I try not to judge to hard in this category since it is business. Still, I must admit, it left a bad taste in my mouth. I still have some idealist beliefs that players who you invest a lot in could help you out by taking a little less money. It also really bothered me that the amount he re-upped for in Tampa was the same or even less than what was reported as the Rangers having offered.

It’s not about my reading comprehension. It’s about you making up bullshit to try to reinforce and article you linked earlier.

You were even actually alive for the Callahan trade, and surprise, you just make up what you want with that one too.

 

[chosen]

Because shooting more than your opponent is good. So is scoring more than your opponent. This is not rocket science.



Good luck finding anybody who agrees with that.

Congratulate me.

There are a few posters in this thread.

Shooting more obviously helps but is not a requirement to scoring more.

Sometimes it seems to me that you believe that more shots is more important than final scores.

 

[Machinehead]

Congratulate me.

There are a few posters in this thread.

Shooting more obviously helps but is not a requirement to scoring more.

Sometimes it seems to me that you believe that more shots is more important than final scores.

Kreider has proven to be an outstanding driver of goal differential over large samples, so you can't bring up final scores as a criticism of him.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Kreider has proven to be an outstanding driver of goal differential over large samples, so you can't bring up final scores as a criticism of him.

Or you could look at how the team fell off a cliff when he went out of the lineup last year if the eye test is your bag.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Here is a popular term. So why doesn't it translate?

-10 goal differential and essentially 3 games under .500.

The nhl point system is saving them. That and their joke of a schedule

 

[McRanger]

Hating Callahan is weird. He was a good Ranger.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Hating Callahan is weird. He was a good Ranger.

Who completely gave up on the team when his asking price wasn’t met

 

[McRanger]

Who completely gave up on the team when his asking price wasn’t met

Gave up on the ice? With re-signing?

Maybe you can flesh that argument out better before tell you how it is incorrect.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

It’s not about my reading comprehension. It’s about you making up bull**** to try to reinforce and article you linked earlier.

You were even actually alive for the Callahan trade, and surprise, you just make up what you want with that one too.

I think you seriously have something out for me. You are always angrily react to my posts. Either that, or it has something to do with ageism since you also consistently bring up the issue.

Making up bullshit is literally exactly what you're doing. You consistently state your opinion as if it is fact and never bring any outside information to the discussion. Am I supposed to trust you because you have a lot of posts on a hockey forum? This is now your 2nd post on this topic and you've failed to provide any information other than your word as to why this phenomenon is occurring. Moreover, at least I preface my 'bullshit' with it being speculation.

I don't even understand the second part of your post. I make up what I want about the Callahan trade? What did I make up? Are you his brother or father or something? Why can't I dislike a player?

You really need to chill, or just block me if you hate my posts so much. I have nothing personal against you, but it's pretty clear you don't feel the same way.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Gave up on the ice? With re-signing?

Maybe you can flesh that argument out better before tell you how it is incorrect.

It's pretty clear from his stats that year that Callahan didn't give up on the ice. Nor did he ever say anything publicly that should make anyone think he had it out for the Rangers. It's a business. But the things I really don't like about him are:

1) His antics with the diving, which are clearly exacerbated when he's on an opposing team (especially in a playoff series). These are things I forgave easily when he was in NY, but I just hate this kind of hockey.

2) I also really didn't like how he was frustrated with the Rangers offer (reportedly 36 mil/6 years) when he ended up taking a deal in TB for 5.8 mil/year.

I know there is the whole taxes things so technically he makes more., but he was reportedly asking the Rangers for 6.25-6.5, so actually, he was not only asking the Rangers for more cap-wise, but net amount wise as well. He really penny pinched his way out of new york.

Just to put it in perspective, Callahan makes approximately (with the tax break) 200K more in Tampa per year (give or take). That's slightly over 3% of his total salary. For a person making 100K per year, that's $3,000. It's really just not that much money and if you think about how much he is making, it's even less significant (E.G. 3K to someone making 100K is more significant). I try not to hold it against guys for taking as much money as they can get, but after how much the Rangers invested in him, it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[McRanger]

It's pretty clear from his stats that year that Callahan didn't give up on the ice. Nor did he ever say anything publicly that should make anyone think he had it out for the Rangers. It's a business. But the things I really don't like about him are:

1) His antics with the diving, which are clearly exacerbated when he's on an opposing team (especially in a playoff series). These are things I forgave easily when he was in NY, but I just hate this kind of hockey.

2) I also really didn't like how he was frustrated with the Rangers offer (reportedly 36 mil/6 years) when he ended up taking a deal in TB for 5.8 mil/year.

I know there is the whole taxes things so technically he makes more., but he was reportedly asking the Rangers for 6.25-6.5, so actually, he was not only asking the Rangers for more cap-wise, but net amount wise as well. He really penny pinched his way out of new york.

Just to put it in perspective, Callahan makes approximately (with the tax break) 200K more in Tampa per year (give or take). That's slightly over 3% of his total salary. For a person making 100K per year, that's $3,000. It's really just not that much money and if you think about how much he is making, it's even less significant (E.G. 3K to someone making 100K is more significant). I try not to hold it against guys for taking as much money as they can get, but after how much the Rangers invested in him, it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

1) The diving was annoying. I can't argue with that.

2) I didn't want to re-sign him so his demands never really bothered me but contractual issues in general (specifically with captains) isn't exactly something new so maybe I am just used to it. It's just the nature of the business.

Anyway while I get being mad at him at the time or not caring that he's gone now, he just strikes me as a weird guy to still hate being that he was a homegrown "leave-it-all-on-the-ice" type of guy. Girardi is similar. Despite being a horror show on the ice and a burden on our cap (to this day) I can't bring myself to actually hate him.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Gave up on the ice? With re-signing?

Maybe you can flesh that argument out better before tell you how it is incorrect.

You must not have watched or just have an infatuation with him he gave up bud

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

1) The diving was annoying. I can't argue with that.

2) I didn't want to re-sign him so his demands never really bothered me but contractual issues in general (specifically with captains) isn't exactly something new so maybe I am just used to it. It's just the nature of the business.

Anyway while I get being mad at him at the time or not caring that he's gone now, he just strikes me as a weird guy to still hate being that he was a homegrown "leave-it-all-on-the-ice" type of guy. Girardi is similar. Despite being a horror show on the ice and a burden on our cap (to this day) I can't bring myself to actually hate him.

Maybe hate is too strong a word and should be reserved for Crosby and the like. I certainly don't hate Girardi and he is one of the reasons I would be happy to see Tampa win the cup. I just wish they could replace Callahan with Stepan and then I would really be rooting for them.

Surprisingly, I also didn't want the Rangers to offer Callahan any contract and was pleased with the trade (not the picks, but offloading a future albatross).

The negotiation to me really wasn't the issue, it was just the ultimate result that he basically drove himself out of NY over 250K/500K, then took around 750K off his NYR asking price to play in Tampa, an organization that had nothing to do with him previously. It made no sense to me at the time and still doesn't to this day and I interpreted that as a guy who doesn't really care about things other then money.

Had he gotten something like 6.5 or 7/ year from Tampa, my feelings would be much different, because even for a wealthy person, 1mil extra per year is too much to pass up and also stupid from a practical perspective. But that he ultimately left over 200K and actually makes a lesser gross salary , really bothered me.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Excellent suggestion.