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Confirmed with Link: Muzzin to Toronto for 2019 1st, Grundstrom, and rights to Durzi

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King'sPawn said:
Okay, well here's my list and some developmental paths:
Iafallo - UDFA from the NCAA
Kopitar - Developed in Sweden after being drafted then straight to NHL; no AHL time
Brown - Played in NHL right after being drafted. 79 games in the AHL (only due to lockout)

Our top line has 79 AHL games in the Kings organization, and that was a long time ago, only by circumstance of not having the NHL.

Leipsic - Waiver wire pickup. No time spent in LA's AHL affiliate
Carter - Acquired via trade. No time spent in LA's AHL affiliate
Toffoli - Drafted, developed in the CHL, and spent 76 games in the AHL. Fully developed exclusively by the Kings if we're going on a developmental path/analysis

Our 2nd line has 76 AHL games, with one player going through the Kings developmental system.

Hagelin - Acquired via trade. Not developed by Kings.
Kempe - Drafted and developed by the Kings developmental system 100%
Kovalchuk - FA signing, not developed by Kings.

Our third line has one player developed through the Kings developmental system, and granted, he's getting better.

Clifford - Amadio - Wagner - All were developed through the Kings developmental system.

Forbort, Martinez, and LaDue have been through the Kings developmental system. Doughty, while he's been with the Kings since he was drafted, did not really need to be developed. I'm not going to fault the Kings for drafting well, but I'm not going to give them credit and say they are why he is the player he is today, either. He and Kopitar were just that gifted.

So, as far as going through the Kings developmental system (who are still on the Kings), I'd put that at:
Toffoli, Kempe, Martinez, Forbort, LaDue, Quick, Campbell.

I think the others were simply too talented or spent too much time with another organization before being a part of the Kings in the NHL. And this is why I don't feel it's the picks that are a problem. I think they pick talented players. I just think there's not enough over the past few years to show the developmental staff has shown they are equipped to take these players to the next level. I do feel they improve on certain skills, especially puck protection, but cultivating other offensive skills and creativity is just not something I have a lot of faith in them accomplishing.
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Ok, but then you have to go through though thru their tenure there, you can't just say whoever is on the Kings and they didn't develop them,

Pearson, Muzzin, King, Nolan, Weal, Simmonds, etc....

But picks are the problem when you don't have 1sts etc, but you are talking about taking talent to the next level, and the level of the Kings picks up until Vilardi's draft, has been....questionable due to lack of high end first rounders / scouting issues, or targeting the wrong players etc,

It's like drafting Clifford....then questioning the development staff because he didn't turn into Claude Giroux....
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Ok, but then you have to go through though thru their tenure there, you can't just say whoever is on the Kings and they didn't develop them,

Pearson, Muzzin, King, Nolan, Weal, Simmonds, etc....

But picks are the problem when you don't have 1sts etc, but you are talking about taking talent to the next level, and the level of the Kings picks up until Vilardi's draft, has been....questionable due to lack of high end first rounders / scouting issues, or targeting the wrong players etc,

It's like drafting Clifford....then questioning the development staff because he didn't turn into Claude Giroux....
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I don't expect them to turn Clifford into Giroux.

I do think the Kings have picked more players to fit a certain style, especially under Lombardi's tenure. But I also think the Kings consistently being among the worst offensive teams is symptomatic of more than just being a defensive team.

The Kings' best forward to go through their development system is Toffoli. Simmonds was a great pick who a) never went through the AHL and b) took off offensively after he left the Kings.

It's similar to Jack Campbell. Dallas can't develop goalies at all, and suddenly in LA he's a capable NHL backup.

Simmonds, while he was not anywhere close to the danger in his career as Campbell was, still ended up being in a much better place by going to Philadelphia, who I think is good at developing forwards (incidentally, Jordan Weal had found his niche there).
 
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YP44 said:
if we are looking at King's development system woudl we look at players traded like Cernak as well?
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At the time he was buried so far on the depth chart , it wasn't that big of deal. He's looking to be a pretty good guy now and the 2015 draft continues to get guy into the league [ including Austin Wagner ], but then he was just an asset to move.
 
King'sPawn said:
Simmonds, while he was not anywhere close to the danger in his career as Campbell was, still ended up being in a much better place by going to Philadelphia, who I think is good at developing forwards (incidentally, Jordan Weal had found his niche there).
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Fixed it for you. :sarcasm:

He's in Arizona now.
 
King'sPawn said:
I don't expect them to turn Clifford into Giroux.

I do think the Kings have picked more players to fit a certain style, especially under Lombardi's tenure. But I also think the Kings consistently being among the worst offensive teams is symptomatic of more than just being a defensive team.

The Kings' best forward to go through their development system is Toffoli. Simmonds was a great pick who a) never went through the AHL and b) took off offensively after he left the Kings.

It's similar to Jack Campbell. Dallas can't develop goalies at all, and suddenly in LA he's a capable NHL backup.

Simmonds, while he was not anywhere close to the danger in his career as Campbell was, still ended up being in a much better place by going to Philadelphia, who I think is good at developing forwards (incidentally, Jordan Weal had found his niche there).
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How are you defining development? It's not JUST the AHL etc, I'm curious to how you define it.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Kings Pawn, not directed at you, specifically but to group as a whole

I am just curious but every time this is brought up, it's brought up as a negative, who the development people are etc, yet, the league is EXACTLY the same, this is league wide,

Tampa - Director of Development, Stacy Roest - Former teammate of Yzerman, anyone think he's gonna teach Stamkos or Kucherov how to be more offensive?

Toronto - Scott Pellerin, Stephane Robidas - really gonna teach Matthews and Marner something new,

I can go on with each team.....maybe every fan base thinks the same way, that it's just....bad culture etc....but I'm not sure who else you would have developing players, people who have never played before??
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I could swear I read a quote from Lombardi ages ago where he said it was a good sign of a healthy culture when former players came back in the fold to work for the organization.
 
Simmonds didn't get PP time with the Kings. He was 2nd on the team in ES points in 09-10, with 12:36 of total PP time for the year. 5th in ES points in 10-11, and had 67:35 of total PP time, which was 7th most for forwards.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Maybe not there, but Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Nashville, Tampa, Toronto, hell essentially all 30 teams have former players working for them....it's insane that we are the only fan bases who frown on it, because LA is near a beach, that's just idiotic.
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Like anything, it's a mixed bag. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If it's not one player, it'll be another. Sutter may have had previous success as a coach, but Lombardi literally brought his friend in off the farm to save his own job. Give Glen Murray some actual talent to work with, and who knows what he can do. Keep giving him 4th round talent, and you'll more likely than not get 4th round talent.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Maybe not there, but Pittsburgh, Winnipeg, Nashville, Tampa, Toronto, hell essentially all 30 teams have former players working for them....it's insane that we are the only fan bases who frown on it, because LA is near a beach, that's just idiotic.
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Nichols, Emerson, Murray, Storr, and whomever else where all brought aboard during Lombardi's watch (and no, I don't believe for an instant they were appointed by Luc against Lombardi's wishes or something).
 
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Choralone said:
Nichols, Emerson, Murray, Storr, and whomever else where all brought aboard during Lombardi's watch (and no, I don't believe for an instant they were appointed by Luc against Lombardi's wishes or something).
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And? My point remains the same, as a fan base people are biased against it SOLELY because LA is near the beach.....they disregard that ALL 30 teams do it etc.

There are plenty of real things to be upset over, who they bring in for player development isn't one of them.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
And? My point remains the same, as a fan base people are biased against it SOLELY because LA is near the beach.....they disregard that ALL 30 teams do it etc.

There are plenty of real things to be upset over, who they bring in for player development isn't one of them.
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Right. I wasn't disagreeing with you. My point was that Lombardi was a huge change agent for the organization, yet even he subscribed to this.
 
Choralone said:
Right. I wasn't disagreeing with you. My point was that Lombardi was a huge change agent for the organization, yet even he subscribed to this.
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Ok, I wasn't sure lol...but he is right to a point, it all depends on WHO you bring back as well, they have to have the right mentality for it..
 
I'm excited to see if Sturm can open up some creativity via coaching, at least. He's a pretty heady guy who had plenty of tools as a player in his prime and his coaching work so far seems to tap into that.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I'm excited to see if Sturm can open up some creativity via coaching, at least. He's a pretty heady guy who had plenty of tools as a player in his prime and his coaching work so far seems to tap into that.
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I have yet to figure out what Sturm is doing with the team, i dont mean that in a positive or negative way but I dont know if ive seen any interviews with him on the bench, any quotes from him, any news form practices about what he is implementing. From the outside, it hoenstly seems like he isnt doing anything with the team this year, i know that is likely not true and I know that WD is the head coach so obviously we will hear from him the most but im surprsied at how little we have heard from Marco.
 
YP44 said:
Muzzin helps any blue line period.
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Other then the Muzzin-Martinez pairing that never worked and yet the moronic coaches didn't figure that out for the past three years.

I'm going out on a limb and say that he's probably the best Leafs defenseman (especially defensively).
 
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riznat said:
I have yet to figure out what Sturm is doing with the team, i dont mean that in a positive or negative way but I dont know if ive seen any interviews with him on the bench, any quotes from him, any news form practices about what he is implementing. From the outside, it hoenstly seems like he isnt doing anything with the team this year, i know that is likely not true and I know that WD is the head coach so obviously we will hear from him the most but im surprsied at how little we have heard from Marco.
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i think all that was really made public was that WD had one PP unit and sturm had the other
 
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