Confirmed with Link: Muzzin to Toronto for 2019 1st, Grundstrom, and rights to Durzi

[jfont]

the majority of leafs fans are very realistic, like me. our d is better now with the trade, our forwards are way too soft, we need one more dman and some grit in our forward group. our pp sucks.

lightning still has a better defense than your leafs.
try to trade for petrangelo and you have a better shot at the cup.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Again, the biggest bane in the Kings organization is the utter failure to develop the players. Here is their development and coaching staff:

Director of player development: Glen Murray
Player Development: Mike Donnelly, Sean O'Donnell, Jarrett Stoll, Craig Johnson

Thank you for pointing this out. Those names in bold are the issue that has caused this franchise to fail at developing prospects. Those guys are all way too close to Luc and Blake and have zero experience in professional hockey post playing career outside the Kings afaik. Two of them should only be on the broadcast.

Speaking of them, is Oates still "employed" by the Kings? I think after working with L.A. this season, his business should be considered a scam!

We’ve heard squat about Oates since Stevens was fired. My guess is Willie is threatened by him and keeps emailing him the wrong practice times.

the majority of leafs fans are very realistic, like me. our d is better now with the trade, our forwards are way too soft, we need one more dman and some grit in our forward group. our pp sucks.

Glad Muzzin is working out and 100% agree about your need at forward depth with grit’n’grind! Good news, we will send you two time Cup Champion Kyle Clifford, who should be the piece to put your team over the top. Think of him as a wiser, Tom Wilson, who doesn’t get suspended. It will cost you the low price of Timothy Liljegren and a second round pick.

 

[KingsFan7824]

We've been amazing at developing goalies.

We've been great at developing d-men as well as coaxing the defensive/two-way abilities of most forwards.

We've been godawful at developing offensive/dynamic abilities of ANY position players, particularly forwards, but also offensive d-men. Part of that is the lack of top-end picks, but most of our scoring pop beyond Kopitar and Brown has come from trades outside the org. Maybe Simmonds picks up his game here, maybe he doesn't because we never give him PP time. Maybe Schenn does, maybe not, etc. Hard to maybe say definitively because very few skilled/scoring forwards have been here since being drafted. But it's a clear area of weakness for the development staff.

I'm not sure you develop offensive ability. It's pretty much there or it's not. If you don't pick talent, you're probably not going to have talent.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Seriously. If Doughty played in Toronto, he would without a doubt be the most heralded defenseman in the lockout era. I’m not even kidding. Toronto fans would be starting threads on the main board like “Doughty 2014 vs Lidstrom 2008 vs Bourque 1993???” Karlsson would be an afterthought of an afterthought around here.

if Doughty was a Leaf, he'd have 20 Norris trophies by now

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not sure you develop offensive ability. It's pretty much there or it's not. If you don't pick talent, you're probably not going to have talent.

I don't really disagree, i.e. you're not going to turn Clifford into a 30-goal scorer, and the road to the NHL is littered with the corpses of guys who were high scorers in juniors. I guess all I'm saying is that there has to be something more to it than JUST drafting, and that should be a clear area of focus for our development team, whether it's focused on shot releases, creativity, etc.

Theoretically that's what Oates is there for, but how many 'offensive specialists' or consultants are we going to dismiss?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Seriously. If Doughty played in Toronto, he would without a doubt be the most heralded defenseman in the lockout era. I’m not even kidding. Toronto fans would be starting threads on the main board like “Doughty 2014 vs Lidstrom 2008 vs Bourque 1993???” Karlsson would be an afterthought of an afterthought around here.

A couple of years back, they were pumping Gardiner for a Norris darkhorse. Can you imagine if they had the actual Norris winner that year? Especially given a lot of what Doughty does DOESNT end up on a scoresheet anywhere.

I still will never forget that Ducks game where Doughty's statline was simply like 30 minutes and 2 giveaways...but those two 'giveaways' were pucks he saved on the goalline and dumped out perfectly so they wouldn't be icing. He was getting soundly mocked by the main board for not being an impact player based on that statline. It's horrendous.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

A couple of years back, they were pumping Gardiner for a Norris darkhorse. Can you imagine if they had the actual Norris winner that year? Especially given a lot of what Doughty does DOESNT end up on a scoresheet anywhere.

I still will never forget that Ducks game where Doughty's statline was simply like 30 minutes and 2 giveaways...but those two 'giveaways' were pucks he saved on the goalline and dumped out perfectly so they wouldn't be icing. He was getting soundly mocked by the main board for not being an impact player based on that statline. It's horrendous.

Yep. Doughty will never have a sexystat line like Karlsson. It’s only when you look at underlying statistics do you realize, “wow, every second Doughty is on the ice he is control of the play, and drives the puck out of his own zone and toward the opposition.”

Except this year, of course, because everyone sucks this year.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't really disagree, i.e. you're not going to turn Clifford into a 30-goal scorer, and the road to the NHL is littered with the corpses of guys who were high scorers in juniors. I guess all I'm saying is that there has to be something more to it than JUST drafting, and that should be a clear area of focus for our development team, whether it's focused on shot releases, creativity, etc.

Theoretically that's what Oates is there for, but how many 'offensive specialists' or consultants are we going to dismiss?

Kucherov was drafted 58th, and spent 17 games in the AHL. Point, 79th overall, 9 games in the AHL. Gourde, never drafted, spent most of 5 years in the AHL, including some time in the ECHL, and only after his 25th birthday has he had any significant time in the NHL. Was he taught skill? I have no idea. He had a bunch of points in junior. So did Laperriere.

Might be able to allow offensive talent more room to operate, but I don't think it's taught. Shot release, positioning, that can be taught to some degree. Even that, you have to have a good shot to begin with. Can you teach a hard/heavy/accurate shot? Did anyone teach Brett Hull how to sneak around and find a hole, or was that instinctual? Goalie positioning can be taught. Defense, is mostly just hustle, but taking the right angle can be taught. That's also still on the instinct side though. Hockey IQ or whatever it should be called.

Keep drafting guys like Akil Thomas, and let them do what they do. If Kempe isn't a C, don't force him to be a C because you have nobody else to play there.

 

[tny760]

the majority of leafs fans are very realistic, like me.

this is a lie.

 

[AmadiosAmigos]

Durzi named Defensive Player of the Month in the OHL!!

 

[kovacro]

Durzi named Defensive Player of the Month in the OHL!!

Yeah, but he’s been trending downward the last year. He’s an overage player, he should be dominating the league. Just sayin’.

 

[Liferleafer]

Hey all...i come in peace. I am hoping both Grundy and Durzi pan out for you guys, because if Muzzin keeps playing like he did tonight....then i am a really happy guy, and i like trades that help both teams.

 

[Amadeus]

A monster again tonight. Definition of solid. Just what we needed!

Hope you guys win the lottery!

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Thank-you for Jake Muzzin, he has been fantastic in his brief time in Toronto he even killed Corey Perry tonight.

It's nice to see Rielly with a component D partner

 

[kingsfan28]

Thank you for pointing this out. Those names in bold are the issue that has caused this franchise to fail at developing prospects. Those guys are all way too close to Luc and Blake and have zero experience in professional hockey post playing career outside the Kings afaik. Two of them should only be on the broadcast.



We’ve heard squat about Oates since Stevens was fired. My guess is Willie is threatened by him and keeps emailing him the wrong practice times.



Glad Muzzin is working out and 100% agree about your need at forward depth with grit’n’grind! Good news, we will send you two time Cup Champion Kyle Clifford, who should be the piece to put your team over the top. Think of him as a wiser, Tom Wilson, who doesn’t get suspended. It will cost you the low price of Timothy Liljegren and a second round pick.

You do realize you need to be able to draft skilled players in the early round to see results , right? We did not drafted well post cup and it shows no matter who's developing the guys.

 

[kingsfan28]

Desjardins and a Lowry should go asap. Like right after the season ends heres your pink slip. I still think they did best when Bernie and then Turgeon were around.

It's already been typed up, and it's pinned to the calendar on the last day of the season.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Some people like to say how bad Futa is without providing any cohesive thought or argument. They like to piggy back the arguments made by others who are disappointed with Futa's body of work and make blanket statements. Granted, as much as I disagree with Ziggy Stardust and damacles, for example, they have at least been consistent in their criticisms with Futa. I'm sure I'm missing others, too, but some are lazy with their criticisms of Futa.

Again, the biggest bane in the Kings organization is the utter failure to develop the players. Here is their development and coaching staff:

Director of player development: Glen Murray
Player Development: Mike Donnelly, Sean O'Donnell, Jarrett Stoll, Craig Johnson
Goalie Development: Dusty Imoo
S&C: Jeremy Clark

Ontario Reign Coaching Staff:
Head Coach: Mike Stothers
Assistant Coach: David Bell, Jaroslav Modry

LA Kings Coaching Staff:
Head Coach: Willie Desjardins
Assistant Coach: Dave Lowry, Marco Sturm
Goalie coach: Bill Ranford

There aren't a whole lot of people involved in development or coaching which inspires talent or has shown results. And I still don't see how Adam Oates, who was hired as a consultant, has had any tangible results for players getting better.

I still maintain the Kings have made some good picks, which suggest good scouting, but the development staff (especially with forwards) has yet to show a reliable ability to bring the best out of the staff.

Kings Pawn, not directed at you, specifically but to group as a whole

I am just curious but every time this is brought up, it's brought up as a negative, who the development people are etc, yet, the league is EXACTLY the same, this is league wide,

Tampa - Director of Development, Stacy Roest - Former teammate of Yzerman, anyone think he's gonna teach Stamkos or Kucherov how to be more offensive?

Toronto - Scott Pellerin, Stephane Robidas - really gonna teach Matthews and Marner something new,

I can go on with each team.....maybe every fan base thinks the same way, that it's just....bad culture etc....but I'm not sure who else you would have developing players, people who have never played before??

 

[King'sPawn]

Kings Pawn, not directed at you, specifically but to group as a whole

I am just curious but every time this is brought up, it's brought up as a negative, who the development people are etc, yet, the league is EXACTLY the same, this is league wide,

Tampa - Director of Development, Stacy Roest - Former teammate of Yzerman, anyone think he's gonna teach Stamkos or Kucherov how to be more offensive?

Toronto - Scott Pellerin, Stephane Robidas - really gonna teach Matthews and Marner something new,

I can go on with each team.....maybe every fan base thinks the same way, that it's just....bad culture etc....but I'm not sure who else you would have developing players, people who have never played before??

I understand what you're trying to say, and I apologize for not making it more concise.

I don't care about the accomplishments as a player. I want Imoo to stay with the Kings as long as possible, and that's because he has provided many results of successful NHL goalies.

The above personnel have not provided a lot of success, especially at forward. There are some of Blake's/Robitaille's buddies and former teammates. I just find it to be a nepotic environment.

If they cannot develop a top line forward, then they need to look at alternative ways to develop or look at alternative personnel.

When I have more time I will compile a list of players I think the Kings actually developed, if you like.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I understand what you're trying to say, and I apologize for not making it more concise.

I don't care about the accomplishments as a player. I want Imoo to stay with the Kings as long as possible, and that's because he has provided many results of successful NHL goalies.

The above personnel have not provided a lot of success, especially at forward. There are some of Blake's/Robitaille's buddies and former teammates. I just find it to be a nepotic environment.

If they cannot develop a top line forward, then they need to look at alternative ways to develop or look at alternative personnel.

When I have more time I will compile a list of players I think the Kings actually developed, if you like.

That would be helpful, but it goes to what others are saying, can you develop offensive talent, you can refine it, you can teach it, but if it's not there, it's not there at the highest level.

Scoring goals at the OHL level, even at the AHL level is one thing, doing it consistently at the highest level is something else.

It also hinges on...drafting, if their highest picks are 28 OA, 29 OA etc, you won't find much high end talent there, there is some, history has shown....but you compare #1 - 5 OA and #25 - 30 OA on average, #1-5 is going to be high end skill, which is like pointing out the sky is blue, but sometimes it has to be done.

 

[KINGS17]

I had a feeling Muzzin would be a good fit for Toronto. Rielly is no Doughty, especially in his own zone, but having seen what Muzzin could do for Doughty and the extra risks Doughty could take with Muzzin as his partner bodes well for the Leafs and Rielly.

 

[YP44]

I had a feeling Muzzin would be a good fit for Toronto. Rielly is no Doughty, especially in his own zone, but having seen what Muzzin could do for Doughty and the extra risks Doughty could take with Muzzin as his partner bodes well for the Leafs and Rielly.

Muzzin helps any blue line period.

 

[KINGS17]

Muzzin helps any blue line period.

I agree, but I think he is especially good at covering for a guy like Rielly while at the same time being a secondary offensive option if the defense cheats to Rielly's side, as Muzzin has a very good shot of his own.

 

[King'sPawn]

That would be helpful, but it goes to what others are saying, can you develop offensive talent, you can refine it, you can teach it, but if it's not there, it's not there at the highest level.

Scoring goals at the OHL level, even at the AHL level is one thing, doing it consistently at the highest level is something else.

It also hinges on...drafting, if their highest picks are 28 OA, 29 OA etc, you won't find much high end talent there, there is some, history has shown....but you compare #1 - 5 OA and #25 - 30 OA on average, #1-5 is going to be high end skill, which is like pointing out the sky is blue, but sometimes it has to be done.

Okay, well here's my list and some developmental paths:
Iafallo - UDFA from the NCAA
Kopitar - Developed in Sweden after being drafted then straight to NHL; no AHL time
Brown - Played in NHL right after being drafted. 79 games in the AHL (only due to lockout)

Our top line has 79 AHL games in the Kings organization, and that was a long time ago, only by circumstance of not having the NHL.

Leipsic - Waiver wire pickup. No time spent in LA's AHL affiliate
Carter - Acquired via trade. No time spent in LA's AHL affiliate
Toffoli - Drafted, developed in the CHL, and spent 76 games in the AHL. Fully developed exclusively by the Kings if we're going on a developmental path/analysis

Our 2nd line has 76 AHL games, with one player going through the Kings developmental system.

Hagelin - Acquired via trade. Not developed by Kings.
Kempe - Drafted and developed by the Kings developmental system 100%
Kovalchuk - FA signing, not developed by Kings.

Our third line has one player developed through the Kings developmental system, and granted, he's getting better.

Clifford - Amadio - Wagner - All were developed through the Kings developmental system.

Forbort, Martinez, and LaDue have been through the Kings developmental system. Doughty, while he's been with the Kings since he was drafted, did not really need to be developed. I'm not going to fault the Kings for drafting well, but I'm not going to give them credit and say they are why he is the player he is today, either. He and Kopitar were just that gifted.

So, as far as going through the Kings developmental system (who are still on the Kings), I'd put that at:
Toffoli, Kempe, Martinez, Forbort, LaDue, Quick, Campbell.

I think the others were simply too talented or spent too much time with another organization before being a part of the Kings in the NHL. And this is why I don't feel it's the picks that are a problem. I think they pick talented players. I just think there's not enough over the past few years to show the developmental staff has shown they are equipped to take these players to the next level. I do feel they improve on certain skills, especially puck protection, but cultivating other offensive skills and creativity is just not something I have a lot of faith in them accomplishing.

 

[BigKing]

I don't know...there are a lot of draft picks ever year. They are all talented. Most guys don't make it.

As for Brown, the lockout was a godsend for him as the Kings looked pretty set to ruin his development. Was great for him to go to Manchester and play well in what was the best league in the world for that season.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I miss Muzzin

EDIT: and f*** you Blake