Proposal: MTL & RANGERS

[bernmeister]

NYR aren't in a position to guarantee any prospect top 6 minutes with their high end players. This isn't a rebuilding team anymore. Fans might thinks we're still ways away from being actual contending cup threats, but no team with Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, Trouba, Shesterkin, and Kreider will be giving any crap about what a prospect wants or feels they deserve. This team isn't going to allow an assessment period that could get in the way of roster lines they want.

You may be right as to how that may be how they roll, but it wouldn't be the first time the club has made a mistake and I have called them out for it.
Krav is in danger -- he is not yet but there is that risk -- of becoming a wasted asset. The ONLY way to avoid this is for NY to correct its earlier mistake and give this kid a real, full shot. NY can't afford to just waste a 9OA selection. Faster he proves his value, faster he produces and then stays or is dealt for real signif return.

Capitulate Drury.
Don't let the fanbase and the club pay for your mistake.

 

[Mersss]

Usual anti Ranger bias/nonsense.
Last yr, not as good was worth 6.5, overpaid by 1.5.
Has upped his play. Worth 7+. Still overpaid but not by much.

This will become academic b'c in 2yrs nmc-> limited ntc he can exclude or we can reach out to a third of the league, or something like that, I think. So it is not all 30+ teams. But we only need one and we will take the best offer. Desire to add quality RD will up offers from those who can absorb full cap hit. To get best deal and widen bidders, NY may have to eat 1-2m at most. NY will not have to surrender a primo asset. Teams will pay for quality add, and NY will be looking for picks to max help w/cap; picks are a currency readily available to all teams.

So... he's already overpaid by 2M$. AND you think it won't get worst with time? NYR will have to add to him in order to get rid of his cap hit, like it or not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lets wait this one out. See how those player values look next year. What's the plan with Kravtsov? Try to make the roster again next year or is he going to hold out now until the Rangers trade him?

Ylonen, Tuch, Struble, Mysak are good assets for the Habs. I'd consider a Tuch/Struble trade for Kravtsov and I'd gladly keep the speedy Ylonen who has a very good shot.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ylonen, is being underrated here, I expect him to make the team out of training camp next year and have a solid year.

I think its a fair trade (minus all those random picks): Ylonen for Kravstov, both were 2018 picks (35th vs 9th). Kravstov has the pedigree but Ylonen seems to be the better team player, has been playing well in the AHL and has also performed well with his limited NHL minutes when called up.

Agreed. Some fans liking Struble, Tuch, and Mysak more don't know that Ylonen is just as good as them. Probably guilty of looking up AHL stats and comparing them to NCAA or CHL stats.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nope
how 'bout Mysak plus Struble or Tuch?

Personally, I'd do Struble and Tuch for Kravtsov.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Absolutely higher than Andersson’s was. Kravtsov is playing very well in the second best league in the world still.

I dont blame him for him rather going back to the KHL and play there instead of riding a bus in that dump Hartford in front of the 18 fans that show up.

Kravtsov 200' game is the question mark and that's why he didn't crack the Rangers roster. Going to the offensive KHL is the perfect spot if you think others won't know about his flaws.

He's no longer worth top 10 value. More like fringe 1st rounder or early 2nd now. If you think I am wrong, the Rangers would have been able to move him by now cause there would be many lining up.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Kravtsov 200' game is the question mark and that's why he didn't crack the Rangers roster. Going to the offensive KHL is the perfect spot if you think others won't know about his flaws.

He's no longer worth top 10 value. More like fringe 1st rounder or early 2nd now. If you think I am wrong, the Rangers would have been able to move him by now cause there would be many lining up.

You literally just made that up lol.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You literally just made that up lol.

Literally eh? Not really but it's an opinion you don't like so you want to invent your own stuff as a defense and act like they are facts. Typical HF boards.

He's not a complete forward. Has some offensive tools but if he was this gem you think he is, the Rangers would have traded him by now.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Literally eh? Not really but it's an opinion you don't like so you want to invent your own stuff as a defense and act like they are facts. Typical HF boards.

I'd LOVE for you to provide your source that he didn't make the roster because of his 200 foot game. I'll be waiting. But since you just pulled it out of you know where, you won't. Typical HF Boards, just blame the defensive play when you have nothing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'd LOVE for you to provide your source that he didn't make the roster because of his 200 foot game. I'll be waiting. But since you just pulled it out of you know where, you won't.

I don't need to provide a source to provide my own opinion. You don't have to agree but how you act in the disagreement is really the problem.

I stand firm on what I said. You don't have to like it

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I don't need to provide a source to provide my own opinion. You don't have to agree but how you act in the disagreement is really the problem. Rethink how you started the conversation and you might learn something today. Or carry on with your normal ways but don't waste my time

Haha ok. I'm sure you were watching the Ranger's pre season games to see how his defensive play was. Like I said, you littery just made it up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Haha ok. I'm sure you were watching the Ranger's pre season games to see how his defensive play was. Like I said, you littery just made it up.

Why do you think he didn't make the roster for his age 22 season? Like "literally" tell me what you think?

I've watched some video on him and read into his game a fair amount. I'm not literally making things up but you have your mind made up. When young players can't crack an NHL roster at age 21/22, it's usually about their complete games and maturity and 200' game is in question in many cases. You don't agree but have "literally" said nothing to why you think he didn't make it? Seems like you are focused on belittling with no opinion of your own. Cool story bro

 

[bernmeister]

So... he's already overpaid by 2M$. AND you think it won't get worst with time? NYR will have to add to him in order to get rid of his cap hit, like it or not.

I am at a lack of how to compel posters to read what I actually said.
I said LAST YR he was overpaid 1.5m-ish. THIS yr, better results, at most under 1m.
That is not overpaid by 2m.
Math is your friend.
As to the crux of it, like I said, several factors will go into it. NY may have to eat something small only to widen pool of suitors, and that is less Trouba as it is tight cap reality FOR EVERYBODY.
They will a get a decent to good return for a quality asset, more if they eat, which they will prob not since shedding cap is obv primmary reason to trade. But they will be ballpark fine. This is NOT like paying someone to take an over the hill asset.

 

[Gaud]

I dont want any rangers, they are all overvalued and not worth more they a 5 or 6 rounder.
Habs want to get better NOT WORSE. The Rangers are not fooling ANYBODY, All the NHL GM's know all this. Nobody is calling for ANYBODY.

Is this sarcasm, or are you triggered ?
There are plenty of Rangers players that are worth more than a 5th rounder that would even fit within Mtl's rebuild plans. Let alone that Gorton probably has the downlow on all of them, being formerly from the NYR organization. I have an issue with these types of statements; every single team has a few player that every other team want and it's not all at the super star level.

 

[bernmeister]

Kravtsov 200' game is the question mark and that's why he didn't crack the Rangers roster. Going to the offensive KHL is the perfect spot if you think others won't know about his flaws.

He's no longer worth top 10 value. More like fringe 1st rounder or early 2nd now. If you think I am wrong, the Rangers would have been able to move him by now cause there would be many lining up.

Literally eh? Not really but it's an opinion you don't like so you want to invent your own stuff as a defense and act like they are facts. Typical HF boards.

He's not a complete forward. Has some offensive tools but if he was this gem you think he is, the Rangers would have traded him by now.

Sorry HH, you are entitled to your opinion, but it is factually wrong.
At the time, NY had abundance of players for limited number of spots and like Barron elc guys were told to take one for the team and go to the A. This was not justified b'c both guys like McKegg should not have been given slots over him, and b'c Strome -- who unquestionably their long term best play was to sell high -- should have already been traded.
Drury said, tough noogies, bend over, and Krav said, bite me.
Drury deserves to be roundly condemned for this waste of a gifted talent who is a precious asset. Instead he then tried to sell him. But bidders saw the desperation and said 'how low will he go'. And so here we are. Drury may yet still be stupid and arrogant here, but the hope is he realizes he has been called out and his only way out of the mess he created is to play Krav signif mins w/first line, proving he is 1ast line talent, updating/upping his value. Once that is done, then review will determine if stays or is sold -- at a price commensurate with his true worth.

Lias Andersson is an example of a complete and total failure.
Quite the opposite Krav is not a bust. He can handle what little adjustment there may be; it is obv he has sufficient skating and other skills.

This type of situation, which is parallel to Buchnevich, is gonna continue until Rangers learn to listen to bern and bend, buckle and break in capitulation to fact that when they try to have their cake and eat it too, there will be consequences. They tried to suck every last drop of production out of Buch even though they were not seriously contending, so while the asset produced even more with increased growth and maturity, his overall value went down because he was on a cheap contract, and that term was effectively squandered by keeping him w/NY.

Strome should have been long gone. Failure to first move him prob by asking for too much and then not getting anything for him now w/this self rental stupidity has led to this mess.

Bottom line here is Krav CAN cut the mustard, I get we all want a bargain, I am also guilty there as charged, but Krav's situation is political, b'c NY braintrust failed to build more with youth and went w/vets. Respectfully, your assessment is wrong.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sorry HH, you are entitled to your opinion, but it is factually wrong.
At the time, NY had abundance of players for limited number of spots and like Barron elc guys were told to take one for the team and go to the A. This was not justified b'c both guys like McKegg should not have been given slots over him, and b'c Strome -- who unquestionably their long term best play was to sell high -- should have already been traded.
Drury said, tough noogies, bend over, and Krav said, bite me.
Drury deserves to be roundly condemned for this waste of a gifted talent who is a precious asset. Instead he then tried to sell him. But bidders saw the desperation and said 'how low will he go'. And so here we are. Drury may yet still be stupid and arrogant here, but the hope is he realizes he has been called out and his only way out of the mess he created is to play Krav signif mins w/first line, proving he is 1ast line talent, updating/upping his value. Once that is done, then review will determine if stays or is sold -- at a price commensurate with his true worth.

Lias Andersson is an example of a complete and total failure.
Quite the opposite Krav is not a bust. He can handle what little adjustment there may be; it is obv he has sufficient skating and other skills.

This type of situation, which is parallel to Buchnevich, is gonna continue until Rangers learn to listen to bern and bend, buckle and break in capitulation to fact that when they try to have their cake and eat it too, there will be consequences. They tried to suck every last drop of production out of Buch even though they were not seriously contending, so while the asset produced even more with increased growth and maturity, his overall value went down because he was on a cheap contract, and that term was effectively squandered by keeping him w/NY.

Strome should have been long gone. Failure to first move him prob by asking for too much and then not getting anything for him now w/this self rental stupidity has led to this mess.

Bottom line here is Krav CAN cut the mustard, I get we all want a bargain, I am also guilty there as charged, but Krav's situation is political, b'c NY braintrust failed to build more with youth and went w/vets. Respectfully, your assessment is wrong.

We will see what is factually right or wrong in a few years. And for the record, I'm not saying Kravtsov is a bust.

 

[TGWL]

Why do you think he didn't make the roster for his age 22 season? Like "literally" tell me what you think?

I've watched some video on him and read into his game a fair amount. I'm not literally making things up but you have your mind made up. When young players can't crack an NHL roster at age 21/22, it's usually about their complete games and maturity and 200' game is in question in many cases. You don't agree but have "literally" said nothing to why you think he didn't make it? Seems like you are focused on belittling with no opinion of your own. Cool story bro

There's been a few different reports/rumors. One involved NYR wanting Kravtsov to work on conditioning and partake in a training program designed by them, which Kravtsov rejected. I think Brook claimed NYR weren't happy with Kravtsov off-season training. (would have to try and find the source). He had a lower body injury during camp/pre-season and the expectation from insiders called this a short term assignment which Kravtsov was still against.

There's been rift between Drury and Kravtsov. One story includes Drury calling him out and talking down to him in front of his teammates during the bubble period.

Watching the 20 games he played last season I didn't really see a player who couldn't make the team based on his 200-foot game, although that was definitely an area he was supposed to work on during his last KHL loan. Watching him in the KHL last year you can see he was backchecking and not blowing assignments like prior play would suggest. You can probably point to at least 5-6 games where he was the best NYR player on the rink last season. (Our team was bad so maybe that's not as meaningful to another fanbase)

 

[bernmeister]

We will see what is factually right or wrong in a few years. And for the record, I'm not saying Kravtsov is a bust.

bold: appreciate the clarification
I agree we will see.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There's been a few different reports/rumors. One involved NYR wanting Kravtsov to work on conditioning and partake in a training program designed by them, which Kravtsov rejected. I think Brook claimed NYR weren't happy with Kravtsov off-season training. (would have to try and find the source). He had a lower body injury during camp/pre-season and the expectation from insiders called this a short term assignment which Kravtsov was still against.

There's been rift between Drury and Kravtsov. One story includes Drury calling him out and talking down to him in front of his teammates during the bubble period.

Watching the 20 games he played last season I didn't really see a player who couldn't make the team based on his 200-foot game, although that was definitely an area he was supposed to work on during his last KHL loan. Watching him in the KHL last year you can see he was backchecking and not blowing assignments like prior play would suggest. You can probably point to at least 5-6 games where he was the best NYR player on the rink last season. (Our team was bad so maybe that's not as meaningful to another fanbase)

Personally, I think that if he had a complete game for his age 21/22 season, he forces his way on the team. I think this is deeper than just offensive ability. Curious to see where he lands once he makes the NHL full time. It's very hard to set his trade value at this point in time.

It's an interesting situation with the Rangers and Kravtsov. He made his way overseas thinking he was making the team and he didn't. Self entitled and it's basically what Drouin did to Tampa when he didn't want to go to the AHL. Not saying he turns into Drouin but it's not a good sign. Is he right where he would have shown ability or are the Rangers right? Time will tell

 

[Mersss]

I am at a lack of how to compel posters to read what I actually said.
I said LAST YR he was overpaid 1.5m-ish. THIS yr, better results, at most under 1m.
That is not overpaid by 2m.
Math is your friend.
As to the crux of it, like I said, several factors will go into it. NY may have to eat something small only to widen pool of suitors, and that is less Trouba as it is tight cap reality FOR EVERYBODY.
They will a get a decent to good return for a quality asset, more if they eat, which they will prob not since shedding cap is obv primmary reason to trade. But they will be ballpark fine. This is NOT like paying someone to take an over the hill asset.

Guess we'll see.

Can't see him getting moved w/out incentives to do so, wrong side of his 30's, Overpaid by at least 1.5M$

 

[cwede]

Personally, I'd do Struble and Tuch for Kravtsov.

Nyr probably seeking young C in the return

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nyr probably seeking young C in the return

Struble and Kidney? Kidney is having a very good age 18 season in the Q. I would have him labeled as a B+ type cause you don't usually see that kind of production at age 18 (mostly age 19 seasons).

Not sure what the rest of the Habs fans base would say about trading Kidney to be honest. We also like Struble but we have a deep LD pool at the moment.

Riley Kidney - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Riley Kidney, 2003-03-25 Halifax, NS, CAN Canada. Most recently in the undefined with Laval Rocket. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[bernmeister]

Guess we'll see.

Can't see him getting moved w/out incentives to do so, wrong side of his 30's, Overpaid by at least 1.5M$

per cf he today is 28.
after this season another 2 before he can be traded due to nmc ->ntc
that is like 30. There would be 2 more seasons at 8 per
That takes him into 32. Yes, that is over 30 but not by a huge amount.
Also, as cap limit expands and all salaries are inflated, his # fixed at 8m will hold up nicely vs new salaries.

While a hair cheaper would always been nice in a tight cap world, acquiring team would be getting balance of Trouba in his prime.

So disagree, and we'll see

 

[Runner77]

Does Kravtsov have any value? If so what?

NYR were proposing Kravtsov + 2nd for Lehkonen at the TDL. Lehkonen ended up going for Barron + 2nd where Barron is worth a late 1st.

So is Kravtsov worth a late 1st or are NYR fans out to lunch? Which is it?

At least Barron is not a head case.

Why are some Habs fans so obsessed with the next Drouin? Several Ranger fans want nothing more than seeing the headache that Kravtsov represents for their GM, shipped out.

He has a better chance of landing elsewhere as Gorton knows all too well what this player is about.

 

[Runner77]

Struble and Kidney? Kidney is having a very good age 18 season in the Q. I would have him labeled as a B+ type cause you don't usually see that kind of production at age 18 (mostly age 19 seasons).

Not sure what the rest of the Habs fans base would say about trading Kidney to be honest. We also like Struble but we have a deep LD pool at the moment.

Riley Kidney - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Riley Kidney, 2003-03-25 Halifax, NS, CAN Canada. Most recently in the undefined with Laval Rocket. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Big no on trading Kidney, at least not for the next Drouin. Kidney’s IQ is through the roof — best to develop him.