Confirmed Trade: [MTL/CHI] Kirby Dach for 2022 1st-round (13OA), 2022 3rd-round (66OA)

[BenchBrawl]

Consistency will be key next year.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

We have seen Dach play enough to know hes not a star. The unknown and potential of Nazar is good enough to not have regrets over a solid 50-60 point center.

This is dumb as hell and nothing more than magic box wishful thinking. You're talking as if solid 50-60 points centers run the streets (which is what Dach looks to already be this year, who knows if he'll develop further). And you'd also have to compete for their services with other teams as opposed to just keeping the one you drafted and developed.

There's no way around it. Currently, Chicago looks really stupid for this trade. Even Toews was bemoaning the trade.

 

[Arhidia]

This is dumb as hell and nothing more than magic box wishful thinking. You're talking as if solid 50-60 points centers run the streets (which is what Dach looks to already be this year, who knows if he'll develop further). And you'd also have to compete for their services with other teams as opposed to just keeping the one you drafted and developed.

There's no way around it. Currently, Chicago looks really stupid for this trade. Even Toews was bemoaning the trade.

Stop it!!!
HFBOARDS knows better then
Toews
Didnt u know

 

[Canuck Luck]

A lot of them are not playing center...
I'd also take him ahead of : Zegras, Kreici, Eriksson Ek, Hayes, Tavares, Stephenson, Nelson.

The habs have not much for offense this year. Most of the guys your saying are better are mostly playing with better teams. Suzuki plays the PK and the tougher match up every night. A lot of these guys have the luxury of playing in easier match up. It's a lot more complicated to stop a 2 headed monster.

I think Suzuki is in the 20-30 range when it comes to centers.

I made the list based off who is listed as a center by the NHL

Now keep in mind the OG poster i quoted asked which centers are better than Suzuki right now. That means so far this season and this season only.

Montreal is tied for 4th last in GF sure but I have centers listed from the teams tied and below Montreal. Why are those centers not affected?
Zegras:
has more goals + more assists with a lower shooting % on a team that scores less than Montreal.
Keller:
has more goals + more assists with a lower shoting % on a roster that has a bigger drop off in 2nd leading scorer (Arizona's 2nd highest scorer would be 4th for Montreal) with a team that has scored the same amount of goals as Montreal.

Suzuki is 100% much better defensively than either of them, but if he was offensively, he should be producing the same if not more than them given they have similar if not worse situations.

This brings me to my next point. Yes playing on a worse roster on a worse team can affect your numbers to a degree, but that could be beneficial for some players or a detremint to others. Theres no way to tell until the player is put in a different role. For all the benefits you get, you also lose opportunities. less 5 on 5 ice time, worse linemates (if the players brought in are better). What if Suzuki gets bumped to line 2 and PP2 because Montreal had better players. That would negatively affect his numbers just like playign against the weaker matchup would help. The top offensive players produce regardless of the situation. My sad Canucks are living proof. Horvat went from being the 1C with a declining Henrik Sedin as his 2C to becoming a 2C to Pettersson. His numbers didnt exponentially rise due to the role he had vs based off the normal trajectory for a young player. He went from playing 1C with Brock Boeser to playing 2C with Tanner Pearson. Changing his ice time and role and depth of roster doesn't seem to have affected his offensive output in anyway up until this season. Now look at Brock Boeser. He went from being the main offensive catalyst in 2017-2018, then #2 in 2018-2019, then #3 in 2019-2020 and by 2021-2022 he was moved down to the 2nd line. His number kept taking a hit everytime someone else came in and became more of the focus for the team offensively. Taking away his role on the PP and his spot on the top line. Injuries played a part too, but he looked to be back on track in 2020-2021 when he was put back on the top line.

As i mentioned before in this thread, some players are better being the big fish in a small pond vs being one of multiple fish in a big pond. Theres no way to predict which situation fits which player.

Overall I could see an arguement for Suzuki over 5-10 of those players I mentioned. Which puts him in the 30-40 range based off that list.

 

[gritdash60]

How are Canadiens fans feeling about Dach? I've always been a fan, and think he should stay in Montreal.

 

[pth2]

How are Canadiens fans feeling about Dach? I've always been a fan, and think he should stay in Montreal.

He's developing well into a 50-60 point #2 center with size. I'm quite happy with him.

 

[gritdash60]

He's developing well into a 50-60 point #2 center with size. I'm quite happy with him.

Yeah figured, and imagine in 2-3 years when he grows in to that big body of his, he's going to be a center that most franchises drool at.

 

[gritdash60]

If you ask me, Rantanen is the most underrated player in the league atm. This dude carried Avs for over a month and people just glanced over it. If he was Canadian he would praised as the new Lemieux.

 

[Malaka]

If you ask me, Rantanen is the most underrated player in the league atm. This dude carried Avs for over a month and people just glanced over it. If he was Canadian he would praised as the new Lemieux.

What’s your favorite planet? Mines the sun. Hey would you rather have mad cow or be the most accomplished scientist in your field?

 

[dirtydanglez]

If you ask me, Rantanen is the most underrated player in the league atm. This dude carried Avs for over a month and people just glanced over it. If he was Canadian he would praised as the new Lemieux.

id go kuzmenko but rantanen will never get the respect he deserves because he plays with mackinnon

 

[rahad]

Bowman could have had Bowen Byram.

Thanks for f***ing that up, Stan.

Is Byram ever going to play a full season in the NHL? It look like his career will be short because of injury.

 

[JRichard]

Honestly he's just scratching the surface it was a huge steal for MTL. Not only do big body guys often take longer Dach also had a horrific grotesque injury that hurt his skill development as well as his former baseline.

For a 13th OA in a very weak draft that was some crazy gold mining for MTL. Super smart big strong skilled player. Wish my team got in on that

Another « huge steal ». At some point all those steals in drafts, trades and signings have got to bring results.
i count 15 steals on the roster. Thats 3 lines, 2 pairs, 2 goalies. Got to be able to find a 4th line on the cheap somewhere.

or the huge steals are not that much of huge steals.

too early to call Dach-Nazar-Romanov a huge steal.

 

[jfhabs]

Another « huge steal ». At some point all those steals in drafts, trades and signings have got to bring results.
i count 15 steals on the roster. Thats 3 lines, 2 pairs, 2 goalies. Got to be able to find a 4th line on the cheap somewhere.

or the huge steals are not that much of huge steals.

too early to call Dach-Nazar-Romanov a huge steal.

Too early to call it a steal for sure.
However, it's fair to say the Hawks management was probably wrong in their player evaluation.
If they would've know Dach would play the same way he is on the Habs with the Hawks right now, there's no way they'd trade him for Nazar.

 

[JRichard]

Too early to call it a steal for sure.
However, it's fair to say the Hawks management was probably wrong in their player evaluation.
If they would've know Dach would play the same way he is on the Habs with the Hawks right now, there's no way they'd trade him for Nazar.

With their eyes on Bedard-Fantilli, i’m pretty sure Hawks are happy with all moves that helped the tank and the future. Even if Dach becomes a 50-60 pts guy.
Did same type of move same day with Debrincat who was already proven.

as of today they have a top 4 locked in.

 

[Mrfenn92]

As a hawks fan i wouldn’t have traded cat or Dach. But most of us were happy to just have a direction. So take the direction as it is.

 

[JRichard]

As a hawks fan i wouldn’t have traded cat or Dach. But most of us were happy to just have a direction. So take the direction as it is.

If Nezar turns out like Dach, will call it a win for the Hawks as it also helped their tank. IF and only IF they win top 2.
i would trade Debrincat and Nezar + for top 2

 

[SlafySZN]

Another « huge steal ». At some point all those steals in drafts, trades and signings have got to bring results.
i count 15 steals on the roster. Thats 3 lines, 2 pairs, 2 goalies. Got to be able to find a 4th line on the cheap somewhere.

or the huge steals are not that much of huge steals.

too early to call Dach-Nazar-Romanov a huge steal.

Not for the habs.

Dach for Romanov is a steal.

Nazar doesn’t have anything to do with the habs because if not for Dach we would still have Romanov, not the 13th pick.

 

[Wayfarer13]

yea there it lots of grey area but i assume most people understand it as play well over a sustained period of time. multiple seasons to make the best case.

To me the one you want is the one that on the rise

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I HATE the Habs, and Suzuki is without a doubt a franchise center, the guy is a heck of a hockey player.

u obviously have no idea what a franchise player his

Mackinnon,Matthews,Barkov etc those guys are franchise centers not Suzuki but hes still a great player to have hes a 1B center imo

 

[hawksrule]

I'm a bit puzzled by this and you're not the only one saying it. Is it the teams communication team doing some voodoo alienation or something!?!

Not a shot at the fan base at all.

Hawks management traded away a 21yo guy they had lost confidence on and he turns out to be a good top 6 player the very next season. They had used a much better pick, 3ov, drafting the guy just 3 years before.

At the very least, you guys could've gotten a better return if you waited a little I think?

This is a very hindsight post. It’s not much different than the Lafreniere situation today, other than Dach showed much more raw skill in his first three years than Laferniere has to date, which is why Dach fetched the 13th pick, and Lafreniere would return probably a late 1st at best. If we hung on to Dach and he continued to stagnate, his value would plummet, much as Lafreniere’s will by this time next year if the Rangers hang onto him and he continues to stink. Most Chicago fans are excited about Nazar, and this story is far from over.

That said, it’s cool that Habs fans are into Dach as he’s become a productive yet unremarkable 50-point winger on a stacked line, but those sprinting to this thread to gloat every time he scores a point are laying it on a bit thick.

 

[pth2]

That said, it’s cool that Habs fans are into Dach as he’s become a productive yet unremarkable 50-point winger on a stacked line, but those sprinting to this thread to gloat every time he scores a point are laying it on a bit thick.

Hmmm. Nice backhanded compliment. Who's going to tell him ?

I guess I will. Dach has transitioned to center, successfully, and is playing with no one special, and was likely our best skater last game, when we were tied with the Bruins with 3 minutes to go, which is far better than anyone expects from this group.

Now, I don't want to gloat or anything, I'm just saying he isn't "unremarkable" or playing on a "stacked line".

 

[jfhabs]

This is a very hindsight post. It’s not much different than the Lafreniere situation today, other than Dach showed much more raw skill in his first three years than Laferniere has to date, which is why Dach fetched the 13th pick, and Lafreniere would return probably a late 1st at best. If we hung on to Dach and he continued to stagnate, his value would plummet, much as Lafreniere’s will by this time next year if the Rangers hang onto him and he continues to stink. Most Chicago fans are excited about Nazar, and this story is far from over.

That said, it’s cool that Habs fans are into Dach as he’s become a productive yet unremarkable 50-point winger on a stacked line, but those sprinting to this thread to gloat every time he scores a point are laying it on a bit thick.

I think people came here after 5 very good performance from Dach at center with Dadonov and Hoffman as his (bad) wingers. If he plays like that constantly, he'l be a lot more then a unremarkable 50-point winger.

Of course it's an hindsight post, because Hawks fans are still happy with the trade which I think is a little weird considering how well Dach has been progressing this season. Of course it doesn't mean Nazar won't become as good. I just feel you take the proven 50+ point 21yo with 70 pts potential over the 19yo with 70 pts potential.

anyway.... I think we've been around the bush a few times now.

 

[hawksrule]

Hmmm. Nice backhanded compliment. Who's going to tell him ?

I guess I will. Dach has transitioned to center, successfully, and is playing with no one special, and was likely our best skater last game, when we were tied with the Bruins with 3 minutes to go, which is far better than anyone expects from this group.

Now, I don't want to gloat or anything, I'm just saying he isn't "unremarkable" or playing on a "stacked line".

He’s spent most of the season at wing, on a stacked line, and is on pace for 50 points. And that’s fine, but as I said, unremarkable.

We watched him stagnate for three years, and I’m genuinely glad he’s improving. But given the risk of his continued stagnation, the risk of his value plummeting, and our need to start from scratch, it was the right move for Chicago. It might make it less fun for you and other Habs fans who desperately seem to want us to wallow in sorrow, but most of us are excited about Nazar and would do the trade again with no hesitation. Dach simply isn’t viewed as some great loss, no matter how much you want him to be.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The best line I ever heard about this trade was that 21 year old dach didn't fit in the hawks timeline/window.

 

[hawksrule]

The best line I ever heard about this trade was that 21 year old dach didn't fit in the hawks timeline/window.

You’re making a silly strawman. If Dach was a better player Chicago would have stuck with him. Given that he hadn’t been good, it made sense to roll the dice on an 18yo who would fit the timeline better than an underperforming 21yo.