Confirmed Trade: [MTL/CHI] Kirby Dach for 2022 1st-round (13OA), 2022 3rd-round (66OA)

[Reddwit]

Was very wrong about Dach but don’t mind eating crow. He needs to thank his rehab team cause he looked like a husk of a player not long ago. Always happy to see a player bounce back from a big injury though.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You’re making a silly strawman. If Dach was a better player Chicago would have stuck with him. Given that he hadn’t been good, it made sense to roll the dice on an 18yo who would fit the timeline better than an underperforming 21yo.

It's not a strawman. Someone made that argument. And it's a stupid one.

If you didn't like the player, fine. But don't try and say an 18 year old fits your competitive window better than a 21 year old.

 

[hawksrule]

It's not a strawman. Someone made that argument. And it's a stupid one.

If you didn't like the player, fine. But don't try and say an 18 year old fits your competitive window better than a 21 year old.

Someone on the internet made the argument? Oh, well when you put it that way, you’re really dunking on whoever that was.

Given that we won’t be competitive for at least 4-5 years, of course an 18yo fits our window better than a 21yo. That’s not why the trade was made, and it doesn’t mean a 21yo couldn’t fit, but the statement in a vacuum is nonetheless true. Again, it’s super weird how desperate you guys are for us to be upset about the trade. If you’re happy with it, that should be enough, you shouldn’t need our validation.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Someone on the internet made the argument? Oh, well when you put it that way, you’re really dunking on whoever that was.

Given that we won’t be competitive for at least 4-5 years, of course an 18yo fits our window better than a 21yo. That’s not why the trade was made, and it doesn’t mean a 21yo couldn’t fit, but the statement in a vacuum is nonetheless true. Again, it’s super weird how desperate you guys are for us to be upset about the trade. If you’re happy with it, that should be enough, you shouldn’t need our validation.

In 4-5 years Kirby dach will be 26.

Nathan MacKinnon was 26 last June. The best player in the world just turned 26. Sidney Crosby won conn Smythes when he was 29 and 30. Ovechkin, 32.

Role players like arturri lehkonen, is 27. Is he too old for the avs window?

Stop trying to justify stupid arguments. A 21 year old player fits every window.

Again, if you don't like the player, fine. But the age thing is f***ing stupid and deserves to be mocked

 

[David Suzuki]

Idk, he had 26 points in 70 games last year while playing 18 minutes a night, which ends up with him having a 1.10 5v5 points/60. Among players who played in more than 700 minutes at 5v5 last year, he was 281st of 306 players in terms of 5v5 points/60. That's terrible.

He has improved with Montreal this year but it's honestly not by as much you'd expect. He's at 1.46 5v5 points/60 this year, that ranks 211th of 306 players who have played in 400 or more minutes.

When I was a young man we used to make fun of stat watchers now they use "fancy stats" to avoid having to watch someone play to have an informed opinion. Incredible.

 

[hawksrule]

In 4-5 years Kirby dach will be 26.

Nathan MacKinnon was 26 last June. The best player in the world just turned 26. Sidney Crosby won conn Smythes when he was 29 and 30. Ovechkin, 32.

Stop trying to justify stupid arguments. A 21 year old player fits every window.

Again, if you don't like the player, fine. But the age thing is f***ing stupid and deserves to be mocked

You’re again making a strawman. A 21yo fits the Hawks window. An 18yo fits the window better. All the more so when the 21yo was a disappointment during his three seasons.

For the third time, if you like this trade, that should be enough for you without manufacturing strawmen misrepresenting Chicago’s rationale.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You’re again making a strawman. A 21yo fits the Hawks window. An 18yo fits the window better. All the more so when the 21yo was a disappointment during his three seasons.

For the third time, if you like this trade, that should be enough for you without manufacturing strawmen misrepresenting Chicago’s rationale.

I'm not manufacturing anything. You're literally saying an 18 year old fits better than a 21 year old.

Their ages will become a factor 12-15 years from now.

Just say you were happy trading a disappointing player for a good draft pick. The ages have zero relevance till 2035 or so.

 

[hawksrule]

I'm not manufacturing anything. You're literally saying an 18 year old fits better than a 21 year old.

Their ages will become a factor 12-15 years from now.

Just say you were happy trading a disappointing player for a good draft pick. The ages have zero relevance till 2035 or so.

The strawman you’ve been pushing is the supposed claim that a 21yo doesn’t fit Chicago’s potential window. No one has said that as far as I can tell. However, all things being equal, an 18yo does fit better than a 21yo, and for salary reasons the three year age gap becomes a factor far sooner than 15 years.

Again, you needn’t resort to logical fallacies, and you’ll need to be happy with your guy without the additional satisfaction of regret from our side.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The strawman you’ve been pushing is the supposed claim that a 21yo doesn’t fit Chicago’s potential window. No one has said that as far as I can tell. However, all things being equal, an 18yo does fit better than a 21yo, and for salary reasons that three year age gap becomes a factor far sooner than 15 years.

Again, you needn’t resort to logical fallacies, and you’ll need to be happy with your guy without the additional satisfaction of regret from our side.

I think you're the guy I was mocking earlier.

 

[hawksrule]

I think you're the guy I was mocking earlier.

If you’re making silly strawmen then you’re only mocking yourself.

 

[Malaka]

I'm not manufacturing anything. You're literally saying an 18 year old fits better than a 21 year old.

Their ages will become a factor 12-15 years from now.

Just say you were happy trading a disappointing player for a good draft pick. The ages have zero relevance till 2035 or so.

No idea how you could say it’s irrelevant. Forwards production reaches its peak from 23-27. This is a hawks team that isn’t competing for anything other than bottom for a good 4-5 years.

Nazar is 18, that means he’ll be 22/23

Dach is 21, that means he’ll be 25/26

Nevermind the fact we’ll be paying for UFA years on Dach and Nazar will be on his RFA contract.

I don’t really see the point of comparing the two at this point or in the future even if Dach is a 60-70 point center. Nazar will be fun to watch. They’re going to be different players. Regardless Dach may have been a red headed stepchild to Davidson who might’ve crippled his development ever worse off.

This all said I’m happy the kid is in a better locker room now. I feel bad he didn’t get the overall development being on the tire fire that was bowman’s wild ride. We had a lot of hope for him here in Chicago

 

[Rob Sense]

No idea how you could say it’s irrelevant. Forwards production reaches its peak from 23-27. This is a hawks team that isn’t competing for anything other than bottom for a good 4-5 years.

Nazar is 18, that means he’ll be 22/23

Dach is 21, that means he’ll be 25/26

Nevermind the fact we’ll be paying for UFA years on Dach and Nazar will be on his RFA contract.

I don’t really see the point of comparing the two at this point or in the future even if Dach is a 60-70 point center. Nazar will be fun to watch. They’re going to be different players. Regardless Dach may have been a red headed stepchild to Davidson who might’ve crippled his development ever worse off.

This all said I’m happy the kid is in a better locker room now. I feel bad he didn’t get the overall development being on the tire fire that was bowman’s wild ride. We had a lot of hope for him here in Chicago

Maybe Chicago should start drafting 14 year olds?

 

[Baksfamous112]

Franchise players being throw around like it’s nothing. Since the lockout I can count on my hand how many there were:

Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon, Price and Kane with Makar being close to be added to this list

 

[BHawk21]

This is dumb as hell and nothing more than magic box wishful thinking. You're talking as if solid 50-60 points centers run the streets (which is what Dach looks to already be this year, who knows if he'll develop further). And you'd also have to compete for their services with other teams as opposed to just keeping the one you drafted and developed.

There's no way around it. Currently, Chicago looks really stupid for this trade. Even Toews was bemoaning the trade.

How do they look stupid? you have no idea what Nazar is. The whole point of the trade. Toews has bemoaned every trade of a quanlity NHL player from the Hawks because he wants to win and not be in a rebuild.

Max Domi has 33 in 46 games Kirby has 31 in 48 games. We paid Domi 1x3 this year to replace Dach center position.

Stop it!!!
HFBOARDS knows better then
Toews
Didnt u know

Toews was mad about the Hagel, Dach, Hartman, Panarin, Hjalmarsson, etc... trades. He wants to win now always. It has nothing to do with the health of the franchise.

 

[BHawk21]

Why do Montreal fans get upset that Hawks fans dont mind trading Dach? Its not a shot at Montreal he wasnt working here and they got a decent return. Hes playing better now but are you sure that you could trade him for anything higher than 13 this year? I dunno.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

No idea how you could say it’s irrelevant. Forwards production reaches its peak from 23-27. This is a hawks team that isn’t competing for anything other than bottom for a good 4-5 years.

Nazar is 18, that means he’ll be 22/23

Dach is 21, that means he’ll be 25/26

Nevermind the fact we’ll be paying for UFA years on Dach and Nazar will be on his RFA contract.

I don’t really see the point of comparing the two at this point or in the future even if Dach is a 60-70 point center. Nazar will be fun to watch. They’re going to be different players. Regardless Dach may have been a red headed stepchild to Davidson who might’ve crippled his development ever worse off.

This all said I’m happy the kid is in a better locker room now. I feel bad he didn’t get the overall development being on the tire fire that was bowman’s wild ride. We had a lot of hope for him here in Chicago

Any team that willingly punts on 4-5 years will likely be there for while longer than that. That's a hell of a long time to plan for intentional losing.

 

[Fainting Couch]

Nazar will be fun to watch.

Fan of the Swiss league now or will you begin watching it when he goes there?

 

[sansabri]

Why do Montreal fans get upset that Hawks fans dont mind trading Dach? Its not a shot at Montreal he wasnt working here and they got a decent return. Hes playing better now but are you sure that you could trade him for anything higher than 13 this year? I dunno.

depends on if you think he has more value than Romanov now

 

[Spring in Fialta]

How do they look stupid? you have no idea what Nazar is. The whole point of the trade. Toews has bemoaned every trade of a quanlity NHL player from the Hawks because he wants to win and not be in a rebuild.

That's the point. I'll take known quantity before the lottery ticket. Nazar might turn out to be a great player but with what we've seen from Dach this year in Montreal, hard to currently justify punting on him for a mid-first especially when he was so young. Now Chicago will still have to look for a young, long-term center/hope Nazar hits. It's like they decided to just start from further back for...what reason? The only thing I'll say is that it seems Chicago just didn't believe in him anymore - which is where the trade makes sense. They recouped on a player they didn't believe in anymore. That's completely understandable.

I won't even touch that Domi-Dach comment. LOL.

 

[EddieTheEagle]

How is this thread still going? MTL is happy with how Dach has progressed. CHI is happy to have Nazar and Hayes selected from the picks. Move on.

Time will tell how both sides come out in the deal. No one is stupid. Everyone love everyone.

 

[BHawk21]

That's the point. I'll take known quantity before the lottery ticket. Nazar might turn out to be a great player but with what we've seen from Dach this year in Montreal, hard to currently justify punting on him for a mid-first especially when he was so young. Now Chicago will still have to look for a young, long-term center/hope Nazar hits. It's like they decided to just start from further back for...what reason? The only thing I'll say is that it seems Chicago just didn't believe in him anymore - which is where the trade makes sense. They recouped on a player they didn't believe in anymore. That's completely understandable.

I won't even touch that Domi-Dach comment. LOL.

Why not? you said 50 point centers dont run the streets and we would have to compete for them. I mentioned Domi outscoring Dach this year at a cheaper price.

Known quantity Kirby dach who had 26 points last year playing with zero effort and not progressing at all from his rookie year. Showing he couldnt play center known quantity. It looks like the trade might have given him a kick in the ass and put him in a position to play with more skilled players. Good for him. Still doesnt mean the hawks fans should be upset about the trade.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Dach looks pretty good playing on a AHL team. Wonder how he would do in a NHL role.

 

[JRichard]

How is this thread still going? MTL is happy with how Dach has progressed. CHI is happy to have Nazar and Hayes selected from the picks. Move on.

Time will tell how both sides come out in the deal. No one is stupid. Everyone love everyone.

win-win trades do not exist to some.
and winning trades or winning the offseason could be a band aid to not winning games.

reminds me of the Brayden Schenn trades for 2 first (farabee-Frost). Of course first years StL won (!) the trade. Philly took gamble they would win it later according to their so-called window.

Mtl deals established players (Lehkonen-Chiarot) for 1st: win as pick will flourish.
Mtl deals a first for established player (Dach): win as pick will never pan out.

Got to give it to them (the extreme ones), they can erase from their memory players they trade away like Romanov, Toffoli, Lehkonen.

As far as this specific topic (Dach for 1st), i’m pretty sure the fact Chicago’s tank is successful at this point is part of the urge to claim a win now.

Here in Montreal many feel missing Bedard for a couple of wins isnt that great.

Dach looks pretty good playing on a AHL team. Wonder how he would do in a NHL role.

You a hawks fan?

 

[Habs Halifax]

You’re again making a strawman. A 21yo fits the Hawks window. An 18yo fits the window better. All the more so when the 21yo was a disappointment during his three seasons.

For the third time, if you like this trade, that should be enough for you without manufacturing strawmen misrepresenting Chicago’s rationale.

What fits better?

A 21 year old who has very high potential and is playing in the NHL or a 18 year old who is not in the NHL and you hope he becomes a good one? What happens when the 18 year old disappoints? Nasar is not likely to be better then either of Romanov or Dach. Not impossible but not probable.

I think you should trade Reichel for another 1st in this next draft. He's going to be 21 on draft day. Too old for your rebuild

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ill judge Dach and his impact when game matters.

Playing on a garbage team with 0 expectation is easy.

I do agree with this narrative in terms of how fans evaluate with points approach. However, the eye test is more important and his ability to carry the puck and handle physicality is very good. He's not done growing yet and Dach is already a very strong young man who is not afraid of contact.

Not sure if he is a legit trusted center for all areas yet but he could be a very good puck possession winger who is physically strong with good skating.

Dach is showing the potential we all thought he had on draft day.