Confirmed Trade: [MTL/CHI] Kirby Dach for 2022 1st-round (13OA), 2022 3rd-round (66OA)

[Dr Quincy]

If Dach makes them no better why would they need a piece like Dach?

Great point. Kane is making them no better, so that means he has zero value to any other team and won't return anything at all.


I mean, the logic here is just amazing.

 

[ClydeLee]

Great point. Kane is making them no better, so that means he has zero value to any other team and won't return anything at all.


I mean, the logic here is just amazing.

Dude that's your logic. I was clearly sarcastic. You took your premise to another level then laugh at it... are you following your own conclusions?

The point of trading Dach is to get the value and help make the team worse. It shouldn't be hard to get that by fans. I get people anti tanking hating it. It's bizarre people don't get the clear intent by Davidsons actions though

 

[RC51]

well its seems it just one of those things. The Dach breaking out reminds me of a long time ago when the habs let good John Leclair which never scored more then 19 goals for the habs. Trade to Philly and WOW 3 50 goal year and 2-3 40 goal years. WHO KNEW even philly did not know he was to BREAK OUT like that. Sometimes things just surprise everyone. I am just glad that this time the luck hit for the Habs. Habs spent almost ten years of mid to bad picks. Looks like times have changed.

 

[Captain Mountain]

5 years just to get back into playoff contention.

The last time the Lightning missed the playoffs in 5 straight seasons is 1996-1997 to 2001-2002.

The Colorado Avalanche have not missed the playoffs in 5 straight seasons ever, they were the Quebec Nordiques back then.

That's without getting into when specific rebuilds actually start.

 

[JoelWarlord]

It kinda is bizarre people don't seem to get they have openly stated their goals of a long term at least 5 year rebuild.

No, people understand they want to do a 5 year scorched earth rebuild, it just isn't a good plan nor is it a good justification to move on from a 21-year-old 3rd overall pick. Committing to being dogshit for 5 years is a bad plan, and trading 21-year-olds who've at the very least proven they're already NHLers because they will hurt your ability to get the right set of ping pong balls to draft teenagers out of junior is poor execution of an already bad plan.

A big part of the value of a rebuild you're ignoring here is that you get seasons where there's no pressure to win or to have defensive minutiae ironed out. These "free" seasons where you can experiment and give young players roles they may not have "earned" yet offer valuable development opportunities and information about where a player might fit on your roster in the long term. It's rare in the NHL to have explicit rebuild years where the organization gets a coach on board with development instead of winning and where there's no pressure to win or have defence drilled into everyone at all costs.

I do not think it is smart that Chicago has decided to trade Kirby Dach and give those low-pressure high-value development minutes to Max Domi and Sam Lafferty instead. You want good young players around while you're rebuilding because you can get an idea of where your future needs will be, and you can start addressing problems you project for 2-3 seasons into the future. That information is very valuable if it allows you to solve problems ahead of time rather than having to backfill key positions like Detroit did throwing money at Chiarot and Copp.

It's not like nobody ever thought the Red Wings weren't rebuilding the last 3 years or something, but it seems ignored as a part of what people see when they see these moves.

Yes, and outside of tank fetishists the Red Wings have been criticized for being a horrific miserable team until literally this season, where they're still nothing special. They also didn't trade 21-year-olds to get worse.

Everyone understands that Chicago is rebuilding, this decision just seems to be really out of line with the actual incentive structures created by the lottery format where dead last is the only position that's worth optimizing your roster for tanking. The odds difference between eg. 31 and 29 or 28 just isn't worth the cost of icing a miserable roster for years and forgoing the opportunity of Dach breaking out and accelerating the timeline of a rebuild.

Trading Dach was partially about being worse this year but also the next 3 years forward.

So? Am I supposed to think that makes it better? It makes straightforward logical sense that they want to trade him to be as bad as possible to tank, but just because they have a reason for doing something doesn't make it a good reason or good strategy.

Trading him because your development guys thought he wasn't going to take the next step and you really liked Nazar is one thing, but if part of the reasoning for trading a 21-year-old 3rd overall pick is so you can be as bad as possible and improve your ping pong ball odds for the next five teenager auctions that sounds like very poor strategic vision to me.

 

[dirtydanglez]

The last time the Lightning missed the playoffs in 5 straight seasons is 1996-1997 to 2001-2002.

The Colorado Avalanche have not missed the playoffs in 5 straight seasons ever, they were the Quebec Nordiques back then.

That's without getting into when specific rebuilds actually start.

avs had one hot year in the middle of their rebuild where varly was a god but missed 6 of 7 years. tampa had a stretch of missing 5 out of 6 years.

im talking about regular playoff appearances not the odd year in.

 

[Captain Mountain]

avs had one hot year in the middle of their rebuild where varly was a god but missed 6 of 7 years. tampa had a stretch of missing 5 out of 6 years.

im talking about regular playoff appearances not the odd year in.

Ok, if we're going to allow for stuff like this, then lets actually measure rebuilds and not just missing the playoffs.

In the stretch you're talking about the Avs, they had two GMs in that timeframe. It was never portrayed as a consistent rebuild and the wild shifts in strategy over that time period make it pretty obvious that it wasn't a consistent rebuild. Most people view the successful Avs rebuild started in 2016 once they shifted to more data driven decision-making.

In the stretch you're talking about the Lightning (which, btw, ignores that they were a win away from the Cup finals), they had 3 GMs and an interim GM.

Chicago has missed the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years. I don't think anyone is going to view them as being in year 5 or 6 of a rebuild.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Ok, if we're going to allow for stuff like this, then lets actually measure rebuilds and not just missing the playoffs.

In the stretch you're talking about the Avs, they had two GMs in that timeframe. It was never portrayed as a consistent rebuild and the wild shifts in strategy over that time period make it pretty obvious that it wasn't a consistent rebuild. Most people view the successful Avs rebuild started in 2016 once they shifted to more data driven decision-making.

In the stretch you're talking about the Lightning (which, btw, ignores that they were a win away from the Cup finals), they had 3 GMs and an interim GM.

Chicago has missed the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years. I don't think anyone is going to view them as being in year 5 or 6 of a rebuild.

avs having 2 gm's doesn't change anything for me. the avs are still accumulating good young assets over all those years. i personally would say the avs were rebuilding from 2009 but everyone seems to have a different definition of the word.

as for the lightning it's the same principle as the avs. many years accumulating good young assets.

chicago is a bit of an odd one since they were still trading 1st's and moved their former 3rd overall pick. i think they'd need at least another 3-4 years minimum before they could ice a good young team.

 

[CapsFrontOffice]

This is just embarrassing to see what's happening in Chicago.

They have flat out told everyone 5 year rebuild, they have talent other teams need, they will trade it for high picks. It actually is the surest bet to get a good team again, tank get high draft picks and build around them. Their only competition there really is Arizona, San Jose and barely out of reach Philly.

Not to mention the fact that the plan was stated and accepted, the coaches pretty much have insurance that they are untouchable during that 5 year time. Then they come out looking like Gods on the other side.

 

[MrGold]

"If you give up on someone 21, in hockey or elsewhere, it's probably because you don't have a lot of patience... and maybe also not a good vision of the big picture at that age, replied the CH coach about him. At 21, that's so young. What did I see in him? I saw a player who was a third overall pick..." (Google Translated)

Le Canadien | Le génie de Joel Edmundson

Joel Edmundson passe pour un génie ces jours-ci, et ça le fait bien rigoler.

www.lapresse.ca

 

[BehindTheTimes]

They have flat out told everyone 5 year rebuild, they have talent other teams need, they will trade it for high picks. It actually is the surest bet to get a good team again, tank get high draft picks and build around them. Their only competition there really is Arizona, San Jose and barely out of reach Philly.

Not to mention the fact that the plan was stated and accepted, the coaches pretty much have insurance that they are untouchable during that 5 year time. Then they come out looking like Gods on the other side.

This is a sure fire way to be perpetual bottom feeders well beyond the 5 years. There’s no way to justify trading a 21 year old on the premise he is too old for the rebuild. It’s f***ing ludicrous, if they didn’t like Dach’s game or didn’t believe in him, that’s fine. Looks like they were wrong, I didn’t believe in him much either. Too early to say for certain to be fair, but this idea he doesn’t fit the rebuild is just patently stupid.

 

[ole ole]

Dude that's your logic. I was clearly sarcastic. You took your premise to another level then laugh at it... are you following your own conclusions?

The point of trading Dach is to get the value and help make the team worse. It shouldn't be hard to get that by fans. I get people anti tanking hating it. It's bizarre people don't get the clear intent by Davidsons actions though

If your tanking and building for the future Dack was the worst player to trade unless the Hawks lost all faith in him.
In a rebuild you usually keep your younger players and trade your older ones Seems like the Harws are trying to do things backwards. Anyone claiming Dack would too old when the time is right for the Hawks. I keep hearing a 5 yr rebuild. Well Dach would be 26 and in his prime. Ya that's kind of old when you think you'll be Playoff bound.
But forever what reason as a Hab fan thanks.

 

[Mersss]

They have flat out told everyone 5 year rebuild, they have talent other teams need, they will trade it for high picks. It actually is the surest bet to get a good team again, tank get high draft picks and build around them. Their only competition there really is Arizona, San Jose and barely out of reach Philly.

Not to mention the fact that the plan was stated and accepted, the coaches pretty much have insurance that they are untouchable during that 5 year time. Then they come out looking like Gods on the other side.

Come on now... Habs won't be able to maintain this type of play for the whole year. Their goalie have played god level and their scoring comes from 1 line only. There's no chance Habs finish out of the bottom5 again this year. the 500 1st month of the season doesn't mean anything

 

[BLONG7]

As a Hawks fan, I’m happy to see Dach is playing really well. I always liked him (hence the name) and wish him well with the Habs. Hopefully, Nazar can get healthy and become a really good player for us in the future making this trade more of a debate as to who won and who lost.

Always good to see a trade work for both or all teams involved....
It's a real treat for habs fans to watch a kid with offensive skill and talent like Dach.....the old regime said players like this were not available, so all we got were muckers and grinders.....

 

[Voight]

well its seems it just one of those things. The Dach breaking out reminds me of a long time ago when the habs let good John Leclair which never scored more then 19 goals for the habs. Trade to Philly and WOW 3 50 goal year and 2-3 40 goal years. WHO KNEW even philly did not know he was to BREAK OUT like that. Sometimes things just surprise everyone. I am just glad that this time the luck hit for the Habs. Habs spent almost ten years of mid to bad picks. Looks like times have changed.

Its called playing with an elite center.....

 

[Colezuki]

Its called playing with an elite center.....

Thanks for saying nicks an elite center <3

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Kirby Dachsbun.

 

[CapsFrontOffice]

Come on now... Habs won't be able to maintain this type of play for the whole year. Their goalie have played god level and their scoring comes from 1 line only. There's no chance Habs finish out of the bottom5 again this year. the 500 1st month of the season doesn't mean anything

lol I was talking about Chicago's 5 year rebuild and tank strategy

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Dach is a good player

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I do not get the

I do not get this dosconnect by people. Nobody should conclude they thought Dach was too old or didn't fit the timeline.

It is bizarre how many make points like that and don't get this was apart of simply tanking better.

The fact Dach is playing well, would be bad if he was on the Hawks for the future of the club. They need multiple years of talent like Dach. Getting a better star talent this draft, and probably the next 2 years is critical. That's why Dach and Debrincat were gone. Why Toews and Kane at the deadline are likely gone. People were saying with Dach and Cat they would be worse enough to tank, that's clearly not the case. Though they have had an easy schedule so far that changes soon. Even with the moves, the trade is to get another near top 10 talent and be an awful team that gets likely 3-4 more talents that they need.

This makes absolutely zero sense. Re-read your post.

 

[CapsFrontOffice]

This is a sure fire way to be perpetual bottom feeders well beyond the 5 years. There’s no way to justify trading a 21 year old on the premise he is too old for the rebuild. It’s f***ing ludicrous, if they didn’t like Dach’s game or didn’t believe in him, that’s fine. Looks like they were wrong, I didn’t believe in him much either. Too early to say for certain to be fair, but this idea he doesn’t fit the rebuild is just patently stupid.

I would be angry too but more and more teams are starting to consider it as an option to tank just to get picks for a rebuild and it works for the most part....look at Edmonton, Toronto sure it has and is taking forever but those two teams have the talent to do it.

With the way the league and salary caps are setup, if you are that low on the pole it pays to tank. Chicago is going to do a long term tank like Edmonton did. Buffalo did it but really screwed up everything else after achieving it.

However I will say teams who muscle through a rebuild via trades can still get decent picks and normally end up stronger hence Tampa, Carolina and Jersey.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dach is a good player

Talent needs to play with talent.

Dach looks very good with Suzuki/Caufield but when he was centering another line with meh wingers, he was alright. Not good, not bad type thing.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If Dach makes them no better why would they need a piece like Dach?

And to again say to draft "a" guy... its noy abouta single piece. It's so oddly short sighted by people and it's not like the Chicago GM hasn't been directly clear his goal is long term. He just had a new interview in the athletic repeating that notion.

This is absolutely terrible logic. Jesus Christ.

 

[Deleted member 257557]

More Dach talk here than in the hab Dach thread which has turned into Dubois speculation and how we old people manage body fat… I think us hab fans just like drama and are not sure how to react when good things happen like this guy signing here at 21…

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Dach is a good player

He is proving himself, finding his game. What a bit of confidence can give you. MSL is also a big impact, seems he knows how to talk to his players, make them play and find their own game. He did with Caufield, now Dach. To me, Dach is a bit enigmatic but now he's emerging as a playmaking winger who can use his body but has slick hands, long reach, good vision. Now, he's barely taking any shots. I would like to see him shoot the puck more, then he will be a complete jack of all, good all around in any situation.