MrB1P's top 50 affiliated prospects. Edition 2019-2020.

[bsu]

I don't think so. Not even close. Why did Hughes go 1st and Zegras 9th then ? Why didn't Zegras produce more ? Hughes skating, puck handling and spacial awarness is among the best Ive ever seen.

Do what I said and let me know.

 

[Mrb1p]

"My opinion isn't based on offensive production."

*Proceeds to list goal scoring and playmaking.*

Yeah you are extremely bad at this. You aren't encouraging discussion, because you've convinced yourself that your opinion is gospel. Nothing matters other than the sweater that you hope to see a player in.

Goalscoring and playmaking as in how they do it. Ovechkin could not score a goal in the ten games Ive watched him and Id know he has the tools to score plenty.

Excellent puck skill, good playmaking ability, smart skater (I hesitate to say great skater because his edgework needs improvement imo but he's smart about finding space and working through traffic at relatively high speed), plays a strong two way game. If you rate Cody Glass at 5 I don't know how Zegras doesn't cut into even 50th. They're very similar prospects with the only difference being that I note Glass as having higher IQ and pure passing talent, which isn't saying much because I believe that of all the NHL prospect pipelines Glass is the cream of the crop in terms of IQ and passing ability. Not to say he's a perfect prospect as I do have some concerns with other parts of his game (namely that his high IQ cuts into how aggressively he involves himself in the play both offensively and defensively) , but I also feel that Zegras is not very far off, is stylistically very similar, and I'd be ready to say that he has a higher ceiling (though, imo, a lower potential floor).

Edit: also just for the sake of the comparison, Glass has better edgework in his skating now but at the same age you'd be surprised at just how similar both players were in their skating. Practically identical in that sense.

I don't like the Glass comparisons. Every time Ive seen Glass play he was a lot more implicated in the play and imposed his will. Zegras plays a lot like Suzuki in fact, he's just nowhere near as good of a goalscorer IMO.

 

[Duke Silver]

Appreciate your efforts!

 

[Mrb1p]

Caulfield 14th overall/31 on your list
Krebs 17th overall/29 on your list

I don't agree that Hughes and Zegras are the same quality of prospect, but this logic as refutation to that point is constructively inane.

I don't understand the point youre trying to make.

Do what I said and let me know.

If you think Hughes and Zegras are the same calibre I cannot help you.

 

[bsu]

I don't understand the point youre trying to make.


If you think Hughes and Zegras are the same calibre I cannot help you.

They have very similar play styles... watch for yourself.

 

[Mathew Barzal]

I don't like him much. There's upside, but what I've seen on the ice doesn't really translate to the popular opinion people have of him. Ive mentioned this already but I don't know what Zegras's strengths are, I don't know what made him a top 9 pick. On the ice, I can't see it. Sure at a first glance of a stats sheet he looks very good, but otherwise, I just haven't been impressed.

He's similar to a lot of players I haven't ranked to me, mostly Kyrou and Boqvist.

Zegras predicts how plays will develop better than any top-ranked player I've seen, including Hughes. His vision allows him to float passes into areas where his teammates can skate onto them 3 seconds later as opposed to forcing telegraphed tape to tape passes. That ability alone is top ten pick worthy.

It's clear from the OP where you state,

You look for:
- ability to be the man
- physicality
- aggression

You look down on:
- lacking a good shot
- perimeter play
- lack of speed

why you would not be able to identify Zegras as a top 10 prospect. You don't need to be physical and aggressive to be a top player at the NHL level. I have no doubt if Zegras reaches his potential he will be a Backstrom level playmaker.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Don’t be that mad on the internet person that bashes a fan for having a different opinion than you do, another fan. None of us are experts.

If you feel the need to attack the guy for having a different list than you, you are probably taking this too seriously.

 

[Legend123]

Don’t be that mad on the internet person that bashes a fan for having a different opinion than you do, another fan. None of us are experts.

If you feel the need to attack the guy for having a different list than you, you are probably taking this too seriously.

Habs are not allowed to have good stuff on these forums. If they do, ppl will go nuts.

But in this case I agree with some of the comments regarding the biasness. However, ppl attacking his biasness without justifying their attacks are just derailing this thread.

 

[Mrb1p]

Zegras predicts how plays will develop better than any top-ranked player I've seen, including Hughes. His vision allows him to float passes into areas where his teammates can skate onto them 3 seconds later as opposed to forcing telegraphed tape to tape passes. That ability alone is top ten pick worthy.

It's clear from the OP where you state,



why you would not be able to identify Zegras as a top 10 prospect. You don't need to be physical and aggressive to be a top player at the NHL level. I have no doubt if Zegras reaches his potential he will be a Backstrom level playmaker.

Maybe aggressiveness isn't the right word here, but you need a certain dose of pro-activeness to be a top player, and maybe thats not the right word again, but you really need to be able to attack a defense a certain way to be able to be at the top, and if you don't do that, you better be a hell of a goalscorer. Thats not Zegras, IMO.

I'll compare him to Bobby Brink in the way they play, but Brink is such a good goalscorer and he's so "in your face" offensively that he's for sure going to have success.

There's no denying theres high-end skills in Zegras, just like Kyrou and a few others, but its their playing style that doesn't jive with me.

 

[snipes]

@Mrb1p right now trying to

Well yeah, it’s a horrible list. Clearly a Habs propaganda thread.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well yeah, it’s a horrible list. Clearly a Habs propaganda thread.

Oh yeah, clearly, I'm like Joseph Goebbels but for the Habs

 

[HanSolo]

Maybe aggressiveness isn't the right word here, but you need a certain dose of pro-activeness to be a top player, and maybe thats not the right word again, but you really need to be able to attack a defense a certain way to be able to be at the top, and if you don't do that, you better be a hell of a goalscorer. Thats not Zegras, IMO.

I'll compare him to Bobby Brink in the way they play, but Brink is such a good goalscorer and he's so "in your face" offensively that he's for sure going to have success.

There's no denying theres high-end skills in Zegras, just like Kyrou and a few others, but its their playing style that doesn't jive with me.

We have completely opposite impressions. My biggest concern with Glass is that he doesn't involve himself enough.

He is in my mind one of the most cerebral forwards with prospect status I've seen in my years watching hockey. But with that comes a lot of him roving around waiting for the most opportune time to jump in and either rush to open ice offensively or apply forechecking/engaging in a board battle. Glass, from my own viewing experience as I didn't watch every single one of his games the last two years, just isn't the kind of guy who is gonna make a play defensively by chasing after guys and applying pressure or offensively constantly busting his ass to find open ice without the puck. He's the kind of guy who waits for premium opportunities to create or defend and almost always executes properly. I didn't watch as much of Zegras but from what I've seen he seems way more involved in the play both offensively and defensively. It doesn't always translate to the best opportunity or execution but he seems to me to be more likely to spend his shift hustling while Glass is more calculated. And again, it works incredibly well for Glass because as I've said, he thinks the game at an extremely high level and he has the talent to execute. But my biggest concern continues to be that he could be so much better if he translated those smarts and tools to a more engaged and intense tendency to impose his will all over the ice.

I really don't know how we arrived at such radically inversed impressions of the prospects in question.

 

[HanSolo]

I don't understand the point youre trying to make.


If you think Hughes and Zegras are the same calibre I cannot help you.

What's not to understand? I bolded the statement I found ridiculous. Let's put it a different way. You're the kind of guy who will put a player drafted 16th overall as the 9th best prospect (and keep in mind I don't have a problem with that, if that's your objective impression then I'll leave you to your reasons. I don't personally agree that Newhook is a top ten prospect, but I don't begrudge you thinking that, I'm just trying to illustrate a point on debate construction.) which means that you don't think that draft position has bearing on the relative talents of one prospect to another.

So don't you see why it might be a bit silly to say that Hughes is better than Zegras because he was drafted eight spots higher? What I'm getting at is two fold.

1. You can rebut the ridiculous assertion that Zegras is an equal prospect to Hughes in a number of ways that don't involve contradictory statements about relative draft position.
2. By contradicting a ranking policy that draft selection order doesn't matter to prospect ranking and then using draft selection order to make a point of comparison between two prospects, you open the door for others to challenge that contradiction. Like I can say well if Hughes is better cause he went first and Zegras went 9th, then shouldn't Zegras be considered better than Newhook, Caulfield, Krebs, and Boldy who you ranked higher but were drafted lower?

 

[Mrb1p]

What's not to understand? I bolded the statement I found ridiculous. Let's put it a different way. You're the kind of guy who will put a player drafted 16th overall as the 9th best prospect (and keep in mind I don't have a problem with that, if that's your objective impression then I'll leave you to your reasons. I don't personally agree that Newhook is a top ten prospect, but I don't begrudge you thinking that, I'm just trying to illustrate a point on debate construction.) which means that you don't think that draft position has bearing on the relative talents of one prospect to another.

So don't you see why it might be a bit silly to say that Hughes is better than Zegras because he was drafted eight spots higher? What I'm getting at is two fold.

1. You can rebut the ridiculous assertion that Zegras is an equal prospect to Hughes in a number of ways that don't involve contradictory statements about relative draft position.
2. By contradicting a ranking policy that draft selection order doesn't matter to prospect ranking and then using draft selection order to make a point of comparison between two prospects, you open the door for others to challenge that contradiction. Like I can say well if Hughes is better cause he went first and Zegras went 9th, then shouldn't Zegras be considered better than Newhook, Caulfield, Krebs, and Boldy who you ranked higher but were drafted lower?

Welp, you got me there. I still think there's some difference between the whole hockey world having Hughes at one and Zegras hovering around 7-20 though, thats mostly what I meant. But anyway, yes, I should have used something else.

 

[Mrb1p]

We have completely opposite impressions. My biggest concern with Glass is that he doesn't involve himself enough.

He is in my mind one of the most cerebral forwards with prospect status I've seen in my years watching hockey. But with that comes a lot of him roving around waiting for the most opportune time to jump in and either rush to open ice offensively or apply forechecking/engaging in a board battle. Glass, from my own viewing experience as I didn't watch every single one of his games the last two years, just isn't the kind of guy who is gonna make a play defensively by chasing after guys and applying pressure or offensively constantly busting his ass to find open ice without the puck. He's the kind of guy who waits for premium opportunities to create or defend and almost always executes properly. I didn't watch as much of Zegras but from what I've seen he seems way more involved in the play both offensively and defensively. It doesn't always translate to the best opportunity or execution but he seems to me to be more likely to spend his shift hustling while Glass is more calculated. And again, it works incredibly well for Glass because as I've said, he thinks the game at an extremely high level and he has the talent to execute. But my biggest concern continues to be that he could be so much better if he translated those smarts and tools to a more engaged and intense tendency to impose his will all over the ice.

I really don't know how we arrived at such radically inversed impressions of the prospects in question.

I may not have worded myself properly. I don't think Glass is the type to hustle hard after a puck or anything, but he's a player that likes to push the play and challenge opposing players a lot, taking space instead of using the space he's given. I don't see that in Zegras. I think thats really valuable as a top offensive player, unless, as Ive said before, you have elite goalscoring ability.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Have you ever thought about one second that my opinion is not entirely based on their offensive production ? I can talk about it all day and as Ive said, yes, Veleno had a good season, but he didn't prove anything to me. He didn't prove he could be a goal scorer, he didn't prove he was a high-end playmaker, he didn't prove he'd up his game once the going got tough and he didn't prove he could produce on the big stage. He's just not a prospect I like, plain and simple, and no, it has nothing to do with him being a Detroit Red Wings.

I’m curious if you can answer these questions?

1. How does doubling your goal totals and being 7th in the league, in less games not show he’s a great goal scorer?

2. How does tying for 3rd in assists, in less games, not show he can be an elite playmaker?

3. Why was he expected to be a top 5pt producer but you didn’t expect Suzuki to despite him showing way more offensive skill by this point and being a year older?

4. This is all ignoring that at the same time Veleno is considered more of a defense first type player. Somehow leading the league in PPG doesn’t show you might just have offensive potential too

I’m not even comparing Suzuki to Veleno as prospects, just baffled by your reasoning and double standards

 

[Mrb1p]

I’m curious if you can answer these questions?

1. How does doubling your goal totals and being 7th in the league, in less games not show he’s a great goal scorer?

2. How does tying for 3rd in assists, in less games, not show he can be an elite playmaker?

3. Why was he expected to be a top 5pt producer but you didn’t expect Suzuki to despite him showing way more offensive skill by this point and being a year older?

I’m not even comparing Suzuki to Veleno as prospects, just baffled by your reasoning and double standards

1. Because Ive watched him play extensively.
2. Because Ive watched him play extensively.
3. Because he plays on the best team in the league as a 4th year Junior and he possess an elite junior skillset. As for Suzuki, he was on a really bad team in Owen Sound and the OHL is much more competitive with high-end players like Hayton, Robertson, Frost, Thomas, etc.

 

[bsu]

Welp, you got me there. I still think there's some difference between the whole hockey world having Hughes at one and Zegras hovering around 7-20 though, thats mostly what I meant. But anyway, yes, I should have used something else.

Are you just trolling now?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

3. Because he plays on the best team in the league as a 4th year Junior and he possess an elite junior skillset. As for Suzuki, he was on a really bad team in Owen Sound and the OHL is much more competitive with high-end players like Hayton, Robertson, Frost, Thomas, etc.

Why do you think Drummondville was the best team in the Q (even though they weren't)? ........because of players like Joe Veleno.

Is Suzuki's 2nd half and playoff run being held against him as well? He was on the best team, no?

 

[Mrb1p]

Why do you think Drummondville was the best team in the Q (even though they weren't)? ........because of players like Joe Veleno.

Is Suzuki's 2nd half and playoff run being held against him as well? He was on the best team, no?

Because of EIGHT ppg players vs five for Suzuki.

I see Comtois, Veleno, Beaudin, Joseph, Simoneau, Macloed, Guay, etc.

I see Suzuki, Samurokov, Durzi, Ratcliffe and Entwistle on the other side.

Theres no denying both are great teams, but one of them is a lot more stacked, while the other is top heavy.

Suzuki was also the best player on his team by a good bit, Veleno was outplayed by Comtois... By a good bit and showed NOTHING in the POs.

 

[Legend123]

I’m curious if you can answer these questions?

1. How does doubling your goal totals and being 7th in the league, in less games not show he’s a great goal scorer?

2. How does tying for 3rd in assists, in less games, not show he can be an elite playmaker?

3. Why was he expected to be a top 5pt producer but you didn’t expect Suzuki to despite him showing way more offensive skill by this point and being a year older?

4. This is all ignoring that at the same time Veleno is considered more of a defense first type player. Somehow leading the league in PPG doesn’t show you might just have offensive potential too

I’m not even comparing Suzuki to Veleno as prospects, just baffled by your reasoning and double standards

stats are stats. Sometimes u gotta look at the players' skills and attributes. What do they have that will translate to the pro level. It's widely known that the Q is the easiest league to score and sure Veleno was dominant but he doesn't have an elite skill set that stands out too much. Suzuki, dominant in the O, has IQ and playmaking that clearly stands out when watching him play. With that being said, I really like Veleno's total package along with his deceptive skating ability.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Because of EIGHT ppg players vs five for Suzuki.

I see Comtois, Veleno, Beaudin, Joseph, Simoneau, Macloed, Guay, etc.

I see Suzuki, Samurokov, Durzi, Ratcliffe and Entwistle on the other side.

Theres no denying both are great teams, but one of them is a lot more stacked, while the other is top heavy.

Suzuki was also the best player on his team by a good bit, Veleno was outplayed by Comtois... By a good bit and showed NOTHING in the POs.

Guelph had 7 PPG players, although I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the players being evaluated. Such an odd thing to hold against someone.

You also claimed Drummondville was the best team in the Q, they were not.

Your reasoning gets more contrived by the minute.

 

[TeddyBare]

LOL
Comparing Marner's epic OHL playoff run winning every frigen award imaginable to Nick Suzuki's most recent playoffs.

2.45 PPG in the Playoffs
2.14 PPG in the memorial cup
Just stop.

 

[HanSolo]

Welp, you got me there. I still think there's some difference between the whole hockey world having Hughes at one and Zegras hovering around 7-20 though, thats mostly what I meant. But anyway, yes, I should have used something else.

I mean don't get me wrong I don't see it as a big deal just got individually amused by that specific part of your quote. I think most people understand full well that Hughes is a better prospect than Zegras, at least for now (while unlikely in this case, there's plenty of examples of players picked lower in the first round becoming better than the guy who went first)

But this post does make me beg the question, what rankings were putting Zegras in the 15-20 range? This aggregate ranking had him 5th
We looked at 14 sources to come up with EOTP’s Consensus NHL Draft Rankings
https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/...-kakko-bob-mckenzie-athletic-hockey-prospects

I may not have worded myself properly. I don't think Glass is the type to hustle hard after a puck or anything, but he's a player that likes to push the play and challenge opposing players a lot, taking space instead of using the space he's given. I don't see that in Zegras. I think thats really valuable as a top offensive player, unless, as Ive said before, you have elite goalscoring ability.

I still think we have a critical difference in interpretation with respect to Glass. In that I wouldn't say Glass enjoys challenging players "a lot" more so that he enjoys challenging on the forecheck and around the boards when he feels the situation is best suited for it. It's hard to describe without specific video evidence of what I mean but the kid always thinks about the totality of the ice whenever he does anything. So where other players will aggressively press any time their legs can get them to a player on the puck or to an open offensive lane, Glass seems to take into account what might happen if he fails to execute on a defensive challenge or if he goes to open ice that is still a difficult area for his teammates to feed him the puck. This results in a lot of time spent roving around and scanning the entire ice surface.....really the only way I can describe it and he's the only player I've used this analogy for is that it's like he's a tiger positioned to pounce when the opportunity is right. When he feels it's the right time he does some tremendous things on and off the puck but he seems hesitant, in my view, to go beyond that cautious and calculated style of play and do exactly what you described: "push the play and challenge opposing players a lot"

Maybe I've just had the bad luck of every time I've gotten to watch him play he's been more reserved than usual but I'd estimate I've watched around 30 of his games now between the WHL, WJC, Vegas training camp, and AHL and it's always been like that. He's cerebral almost to a fault. Almost, if he wasn't so talented at what he does when he actually engages, it might be a problem but for him it isn't. It's just a hinderance to what I feel could make him an even more impactful player. The only times I ever really get the sense that Cody is being more assertive than not from the start of his shift to the end is when he's on the powerplay. In those situations he's far more active all around the offensive zone and hounds the puck relentlessly when it clears the zone.

And maybe I haven't seen enough of Zegras but I really didn't get the sense that he wasn't engaged enough. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that from what I have seen from Zegras compared to Glass at the same age, Trevor is more willing to at least attempt to use his speed and stick handling to try to work his way through traffic while generally looking for the best passing lane to set up a play for his teammates. Comparing both players at the same age I actually see more hustle in Zegras' game. And his passing, in my opinion, is only slightly below Glass' (and I consider Glass to have better passing now than many if not most players in the NHL. Where Zegras does better with lead passes, Glass can laser a tape to tape pass even at times where a pass seems all but impossible like few other players I've seen).

In terms of playmaking Zegras has a great deal of talent and I feel, if I were to do my own ranking I would have him firmly in the top 30 if not the top 20. Where you seem to have concerns with his engagement in the play, my only real concern with him is that his dazzling skills may have trouble translating at the NHL level but I'm not overly worried about that. I'm expecting him to develop well at BU.

 

[93LEAFS]

LOL
Comparing Marner's epic OHL playoff run winning every frigen award imaginable to Nick Suzuki's most recent playoffs.

2.45 PPG in the Playoffs
2.14 PPG in the memorial cup
Just stop.

Also keep in mind Marner was 18. Suzuki was 19, and his regular season numbers really haven't dramatically changed, yet he's gotten a dramatic boost in this years rankings, despite his numbers age-adjusted being worse than they were in his draft year.