Proposal: Moving up a few spots in the draft

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
Any of the three next guys would be welcomed additions to our core. I mean, Hanifin and Risto would be Weber/Suter reddux. And we've got prospects that project to be better forwards than Nashville had in their time. Plus, we'd be able to move a guy. Myers comes to mind.
Jack Johnson and a late 1st got Jeff Carter. I'm convinced that Myers can yield an excellent offensive player in return.

We could do that or draft a big body playmaker stud like Strome or a guy like Marner who are producing at stupid paces.

Or we just keep all 4 defensemen
Having Risto, Hanifin, Myers and Zads on the blueline is just as dominant as having eichel, Reinhart, girgensons down the middle.

If we are at 3, we take the dominant blueline, unless trading up to create the dominant center core can be done without putting a big hole somewhere else

Risto, Zads, Myers, Reinhart, girgensons should be off the table

If we can get eichel via some combination of 1st rounders and other assets like Grigo, Armia, Pysyk, compher, Baptiste, Etc I'm all for it.
 

Irving Zisman

Really Bad Grandpa
Nov 5, 2007
1,364
212
'Merica
I'll be more bummed if draft defense than I will be if we miss out on McDavid and Eichel. I think people are literally insane about this. There are only so many minutes and so many spots on D. If I have first rounders playing 10 minutes on the third pair...while I'm still crossing my fingers on turning around the worst scoring offense of all time with depth of middle six guys....I did it wrong.

You'd be bummed if we drafted Hanifin because there's only "so many minutes" on D? You'd be bummed to have an absolute stud defenseman?

If you had young 1st rounders playing lighter minutes on D to adjust to the speed of the NHL and develop properly... You'd see it as a problem?

You definitely did do it wrong.
 

Bps21*

Guest
Yes. I have the shocking unbelievable belief that you need forwards to win too.

Shoot me.
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
What's wrong is that you're lumping Grigorenko in with the Big 5 that are a clear cut above him, both from a talent standpoint, and a roster-building standpoint.

To say that the difference in value between Grigorenko and excellent Power Forward prospects like Fasching and Baptiste is too great a difference for you to land Jack ****ing Eichel... is pure, unbridled Mikhail fan-boy homerism. This is the classic HFBoards over-valuation of your own teams prospects.

And you completely missed the point I made about my hesitancy to even do the 3 1st's and Grigs for Eichel deal. I mentioned I'd have to think long and hard about it, yet you kept bringing it up and said 'just keep building' about 4 times. (btw, is adding Eichel to the aforementioned core-5 not building in your eyes?)

I've now seen you make this Johansen comparison multiple times in different threads, which is silly. They're completely different players, especially when considering their play away from the puck.

Now let's try the Spezza comparison, in his 3rd post draft year: 111GP, 29g 76p

Grigs stats in the same timeframe: 47 games, 3g 6a 9p. And if Grigs stayed up for the rest of the year, do you think he'd even come close to the points/game pace and development that Spezza showed?

Getzlaf was also ahead at the same time, then won a Cup the following year, while being a solid contributor during that run.

Barkov is universally accepted to be a far superior prospect than Grigs.

Grigs has improved, but he has a longgg way to go to even be in the conversation. As much potential as he has, I see an unfortunate amount of Artem, Marek and Jiri in his game.

You don't even have to knock grigo to make the fan boyism case... Of course you trade grigo as part of a package for Eichel... Where the hell is Grigo going to play on a team with Eichel and Reinhart?
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
36,058
12,038
You don't even have to knock grigo to make the fan boyism case... Of course you trade grigo as part of a package for Eichel... Where the hell is Grigo going to play on a team with Eichel and Reinhart?



Wing.

But you still trade Grigs 100 out of 100 times in a package for Eichel.
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
What's wrong is that you're lumping Grigorenko in with the Big 5 that are a clear cut above him, both from a talent standpoint, and a roster-building standpoint.
What is wrong with you when others disagree? Can you not fathom that?

T
o say that the difference in value between Grigorenko and excellent Power Forward prospects like Fasching and Baptiste is too great a difference for you to land Jack ****ing Eichel... is pure, unbridled Mikhail fan-boy homerism. This is the classic HFBoards over-valuation of your own teams prospects.
No it's not. Grigorenko is an excellent prospect, I think higher of him than you which is exceptionally clear since you're keen to trade him away so much.
I don't think Eichel is worth Grigorenko and 3 firsts which includes the pick right next to it. What's the big ****ing deal?
And you completely missed the point I made about my hesitancy to even do the 3 1st's and Grigs for Eichel deal. I mentioned I'd have to think long and hard about it, yet you kept bringing it up and said 'just keep building' about 4 times. (btw, is adding Eichel to the aforementioned core-5 not building in your eyes?)
Not at the cost of a bunch of assets, no. Including the next pick, 2 other first rounders and a very good prospect. That's silly.
I've now seen you make this Johansen comparison multiple times in different threads, which is silly. They're completely different players, especially when considering their play away from the puck.
I never compared the players directly. Only the trajectory they've followed.

Read man, read.
Now let's try the Spezza comparison, in his 3rd post draft year: 111GP, 29g 76p
He got sent back after being rafted and took his time to develop. That's the damn point.

Big playmaking centermen take time to develop. That's the norm. Grigorenko is being given his time. Some take less than others and some take more than others. Shall I bring up Thornton? After being drafted high he had a complete crap year and followed by a good one. He took 2 post draft seasons to develop and add tools to his game to improve.

Grigs stats in the same timeframe: 47 games, 3g 6a 9p. And if Grigs stayed up for the rest of the year, do you think he'd even come close to the points/game pace and development that Spezza showed?
No I never even remotely implied that.
Getzlaf was also ahead at the same time, then won a Cup the following year, while being a solid contributor during that run.
That's awesome. He still took time to develop.
Barkov is universally accepted to be a far superior prospect than Grigs.
When did I frickin say otherwise? Christ man
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
You don't even have to knock grigo to make the fan boyism case... Of course you trade grigo as part of a package for Eichel... Where the hell is Grigo going to play on a team with Eichel and Reinhart?

That's not at all the point. I trust your opinion on most things, so tell me. Would you trade Grigorenko, the 3rd pick, and two other 1sts in this draft for Eichel?

That's the very next pick, two other top 30 picks and a very very good prospect.
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
36,058
12,038
That's not at all the point. I trust your opinion on most things, so tell me. Would you trade Grigorenko, the 3rd pick, and two other 1sts in this draft for Eichel?

That's the very next pick, two other top 30 picks and a very very good prospect.


All day every day.
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
All day every day.

That's probably because you're the leader of the McEichel or season is a failure camp. :sarcasm:

But seriously, you would trade what amounts to 4 first rounders to move up a single spot? The difference between Marner/Strome and Hanifin vs Eichel isn't 4 first round picks. Especially when one of the picks is a franchise level prospect. Hanifin/Strome/Marner would be top 2 picks in basically most other drafts.
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
In a heartbeat.

Why?? That's complete and obscene overpayment. Grigorenko is a legit top prospect in basically every organization and the 3rd overall pick PLUS two others 1sts!!

That's bat **** crazy
 

Beerz

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
36,058
12,038
That's probably because you're the leader of the McEichel or season is a failure camp. :sarcasm:

But seriously, you would trade what amounts to 4 first rounders to move up a single spot? The difference between Marner/Strome and Hanifin vs Eichel isn't 4 first round picks. Especially when one of the picks is a franchise level prospect. Hanifin/Strome/Marner would be top 2 picks in basically most other drafts.

I thought you were the one that championed the Fasching and Des trade for McNabb and 2 seconds because Murray went out and got what he wanted ... a coveted player... Value be damned.?
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
I thought you were the one that championed the Fasching and Des trade for McNabb and 2 seconds because Murray went out and got what he wanted ... a coveted player... Value be damned.?

A couple 2nds is different than 4 firsts
 

Jame

Registered User
Sep 4, 2002
52,673
9,037
Florida
That's not at all the point. I trust your opinion on most things, so tell me. Would you trade Grigorenko, the 3rd pick, and two other 1sts in this draft for Eichel?

That's the very next pick, two other top 30 picks and a very very good prospect.

Yes, definitely. Like oh my god yes I'd do that deal... It's a steal.

And I'd add significant pieces to that package to get it done

I just won't include any of the core 5 (my core 5).
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
3 late firsts.

Still 3 top 30 picks in a deep ass draft. And I seriously doubt that the Isles and Blues picks end up where they are now. The Blues highest pick in recent years was 25. They often end up between 20-24.

I'm not convinced the Isles are ready to go deep in the playoffs. Especially should they get matched up with a veteran team.
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
Yes, definitely. Like oh my god yes I'd do that deal... It's a steal.

And I'd add significant pieces to that package to get it done

I just won't include any of the core 5 (my core 5).

Completely disagree. Hanifin+++ for Eichel? **** no.
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
Don't even worry about it.

No team would accept that.

Edmonton would do back flips for that deal. Legit franchise prospect, really good prospect and two other 1st rounders in a deep draft?
They'd take it instantly.
 

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