Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
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Proposal: Moving up a few spots in the draft
- Thread starter TehDoak
- Start date
Why would you (essentially) trade Hanifin but not trade Myers, Risto, or Zadorov, when Hanifin is probably better than all three?
Just like some people have reacted to falling out of the McEichel sweepstakes by taking a lesser view of our current rebuild pieces and thus projecting future failure... Some, yourself, are reacting to it by pretending that McEichel isn't on another planet when compared to the next tier.
Can I get to #2 without giving up #3?
If so, I'll give up one of them and draft Eichek and Hanifin, but that's not realistic.
No I'm well aware of McEichel's talent. I know he's far and away better than Hanifin. I just don't believe it's worth it to trade the 3rd pick and 3 other major assets to move up one spot. I don't think he's THAT good.
The three 1sts? meh. Maybe. Probably actually.
Grigo and 3? sure. We'd still have 2 and the other picks.
Grigo+STL 1st+NYI 1st+ a good prospect like Baptiste? sure.
Grigo, 3 and two other picks? Not a chance.
Honestly I think the best course of action would be to just draft wherever we end up and continue building. We have core pieces in place, adding a Hanifin/Strome/Marner or hell even Zacha along with the two other top picks we have would be ideal.
It's moot though because chances are the teams with the top 2 picks won't move out.
It's moot though because chances are the teams with the top 2 picks won't move out.
Oilers management are idiots. I don't think any type of logic can at all be applied there
Why not? If Edm even picks up the phone for a trade down offer, they must be willing to look at acquring a top D-man. Why should they expect the best of the four Buffalo could have, and then another big haul after that? If there's a draft spot between Edm and Buf I can understand an over payment. If it's just switching consecutive draft spots then Murray should just say, "pick who you want and we'll pick who we want, and I'll keep the rest of my draft treasure chest".
The point was, under the original hypothetical we are drafting 3 Hanifin.
I've been saying I wouldn't give up one of our core 5 pieces, under the assumption that we had to give up #3.
I'm not willing to trade 2 top pieces of an elite top 4 (drafting Hanifin at 3) to get Eichel
I am willing to give up 1 of those 4, logically being Hanifin as #3 holds probably the most value in the trade offer.
I'm not willing to trade Hanifin and another of the big 3 D.
I'm also not willing I trade from the 2 core centers, as having those to go with Eichel is the entire point of making a big crazy offer, but not touching the core 5
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Stop saying "to move up one spot" then. And say, "I dont think its worth trading 3 mid to late 1sts for the far and away better player
Irving Zisman
Really Bad Grandpa
That's probably because you're the leader of the McEichel or season is a failure camp.
But seriously, you would trade what amounts to 4 first rounders to move up a single spot? The difference between Marner/Strome and Hanifin vs Eichel isn't 4 first round picks. Especially when one of the picks is a franchise level prospect. Hanifin/Strome/Marner would be top 2 picks in basically most other drafts.
Eichel is special, kind of like how you view Grigs as special.
There's likely a huge drop off in quality in the 1st round where the NYI and STL picks will be.
You already know my thoughts on trading Grigorenko for Eichel.
Obviously the Hanifin aspect is difficult. Kid's a stud, and I's be thrilled to have him.
But here's another line of my reasoning- I once had an internship where I worked the WJC's when they were in Buffalo. There was a nightly dinner for anyone who had a press pass, or anyone who was part of a team's management or scouting group. One night I was sitting at a table and a bunch of scouts from Philly sat down next to me. It was a pretty awesome thing to see Paul Holmgren and his scouting staff sit at the same table and eat the same ****** baked ziti that I was.
Anyway, I got to talking with the one guy next to me. Can't remember his name, but we were talking about the top prospects participating in the games that year. He was then telling me that teams will often lean towards picking a top forward in the draft over a top defenseman, even if they're equal across the board.
The reasoning, he said, was two-fold: Top defenseman have a much higher "bust-factor" than top forwards. Also, the fact that defenseman generally take longer to develop sometimes masks a d-man true potential. I remember him mentioning guys like Lidstrom, Keith and Weber specifically- guys who weren't considered top guys, but who became Norris level players.
Now I'm sure many scouts and GM's wouldn't agree with that- their are numerous 1st round defenseman that are elite. But I always found it to be very interesting, and be in the back of mind when considering different roster scenarios. And it was a total trip to get that kind of insight and have a pro scout as down to earth talk to some intern scrub like me
EDIT: Meant to say top "Center," not forward. Obviously a top Defenseman holds more value than a top winger.
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Eichel is special, kind of like how you view Grigs as special.
There's likely a huge drop off in quality in the 1st round where the NYI and STL picks will be.
You already know my thoughts on trading Grigorenko for Eichel.
Obviously the Hanifin aspect is difficult. Kid's a stud, and I's be thrilled to have him.
But here's another line of my reasoning- I once had an internship where I worked the WJC's when they were in Buffalo. There was a nightly dinner for anyone who had a press pass, or anyone who was part of a team's management or scouting group. One night I was sitting at a table and a bunch of scouts from Philly sat down next to me. It was a pretty awesome thing to see Paul Holmgren and his scouting staff sit at the same table and eat the same ****** baked ziti that I was.
Anyway, I got to talking with the one guy next to me. Can't remember his name, but we were talking about the top prospects participating in the games that year. He was then telling me that teams will often lean towards picking a top forward in the draft over a top defenseman, even if they're equal across the board.
The reasoning, he said, was two-fold: Top defenseman have a much higher "bust-factor" than top forwards. Also, the fact that defenseman generally take longer to develop sometimes masks a d-man true potential. I remember him mentioning guys like Lidstrom, Keith and Weber specifically- guys who weren't considered top guys, but who became Norris level players.
Now I'm sure many scouts and GM's wouldn't agree with that- their are numerous 1st round defenseman that are elite. But I always found it to be very interesting, and be in the back of mind when considering different roster scenarios. And it was a total trip to get that kind of insight and have a pro scout as down to earth talk to some intern scrub like me
... And then you looked at PHilly's blueline and was like, "this guy is probably an idiot".
lol beat me to it.
Another way I thought to look at it, assume Eichel and Hanifin hit their ceilings. And become the players they're often compared to.
Would you deal Suter+2 1sts+Grigorenko for Getzlaf?
Irving Zisman
Really Bad Grandpa
Lol, can't really argue with that. But hypothetically if a center and defenseman were 100% equal in perceived value and potential across the board. I would pick the Center. Would you not?
Ive been following the discussion all along. You dont want to trade the core 5 to move up. Then you asked if you could get to #2 without trading #3. If you dont want to trade the core 5, and you are trying to get to #2 without giving up #3, i dont think its remotely possible. Youre withholding all the best assets.
I'd try to get Eichel without giving up Girgensons, Myers, Risto, Zadorov, or Reinhart. Anything else is on the table, including our 2016 1st even though the draft is in Buffalo...
Irving Zisman
Really Bad Grandpa
Lol no. Know thats' crazy. Getzlaf is a total freak. He has 6 PPG seasons at 6'4 and 220+
If Getzlaf is his floor his ceiling is Mario.
I don't think it's remotely possible either (to keep 3)
I asked the question because the position someone took was confusing to me.re-read what I was replying to
I completely agree with your 2nd paragraph
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