McKenzie: Moved: McKenzie: Oilers in on Barrie? (Moves by Colorado-- Merged)

[Exit Dose]

not what I asked. The idea would be to flip a D (Vatanen or Barrie) to the Oilers afterwards.

We just re-signed Vatanen. I doubt he's going anywhere, let alone being swapped for an unsigned player likely asking for more.

You asked what difference there would be if we traded Fowler for Barrie, but we don't have a need for Barrie. So it would be less than if you were buying Barrie.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

Barrie deserves to get paid and the Avs are better off keeping him.

not gonna argue this. doesn't seem like roy agrees with you.

 

[McFlyingV]

Sakic said point blank that if they can't sign Barrie to a long term deal then they'll go to arb. I think you've got it backwards, teams are asking about Barrie and Sakic is listening but everything that's been reported doesn't make it sound like Barrie is being shopped.

I don't really get this though. They're obviously not willing to give him what he's asking long-term, but he's going to probably get that money in arbitration without the term. Have they filed for arbitration? Cause if not I don't understand why Chia doesn't just offer sheet him and give up the 1st 2nd and 3rd. If Colorado has this much of an issue giving him the money he wants with term then I don't understand why they'd match it.

 

[slobbergob]

not gonna argue this. doesn't seem like roy agrees with you.

Based on what?

 

[Draiskull]

Why would we help a divisional rival? Not to mention you don't have anything we need i.e. a high-end LH LW (not Pouliot, not interested in Yakupov).

alrighty then... I guess you have Raymond now anyway.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

Based on what?

The endless speculation and rumours about him being traded, and not getting the long term deal he wants. And the precedent of Sakic saying not trading O'reilly and then trading them a week later. There's no guarantee but it seems at least likely that he's being shopped.

Similar to Subban - all that smoke and he did actually get traded eventually.

 

[Avs44]

The endless speculation and rumours about him being traded, and not getting the long term deal he wants. And the precedent of Sakic saying not trading O'reilly and then trading them a week later. There's no guarantee but it seems at least likely that he's being shopped.

Similar to Subban - all that smoke and he did actually get traded eventually.

Sakic never said anything half as definitive about O'Reilly as he did about Barrie. This is the stuff he was saying about O'Reilly:

"I'd like to have him signed by the start of the season hopefully."

"I like Ryan a lot," Sakic said. "He's a very valuable player, a part of our core. My first priority would be to sign him. We'll see where it all goes. I'd prefer him not playing [the season] out. I think distractions alone ... I don't think the team needs it, I don't think he needs it. That's why it's important for us that we have something done."

This is what he said about Barrie:

Sakic tells Chambers that if they cannot work out a new agreement, it’s expected Barrie will head to arbitration. “Either way, he’ll be here,” said the Avs GM.

Maybe Barrie is traded, maybe not, but stop listening to Stauffer.

 

[slobbergob]

The endless speculation and rumours about him being traded, and not getting the long term deal he wants. And the precedent of Sakic saying not trading O'reilly and then trading them a week later. There's no guarantee but it seems at least likely that he's being shopped.

Similar to Subban - all that smoke and he did actually get traded eventually.

Pretty sure Sakic said he'd like to get ROR signed, but wasn't going to let him play out the season unsigned.

Regardless, not sure what that has to do with Roy. He doesn't have a ton of personnel say as he's repeated a few times. Sakic makes the trades.

Roy gave Barrie the 3rd most icetime on the team. The only two ahead of him were Beauch and Johnson, our top pairing, and both guys who PK. Roy loves Barrie.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

Sakic never said anything half as definitive about O'Reilly as he did about Barrie. This is the stuff he was saying about O'Reilly:




This is what he said about Barrie:



Maybe Barrie is traded, maybe not, but stop listening to Stauffer.

Don't listen to Stauffer, mostly from reading around here, but fair enough. I thought I saw a quote from Roy saying something like he wasn't happy with Barrie's defensive game at all and that he was a #5? And just in general not valuing him at the same level that he (and most others) value him? Or is that just some rumour?

 

[pockets]

I don't really get this though. They're obviously not willing to give him what he's asking long-term, but he's going to probably get that money in arbitration without the term. Have they filed for arbitration? Cause if not I don't understand why Chia doesn't just offer sheet him and give up the 1st 2nd and 3rd. If Colorado has this much of an issue giving him the money he wants with term then I don't understand why they'd match it.

Tomorrow is filing day for players and Wed is filing day for teams so we'll find out soon enough. There are two factors here that are keeping the Avs from just giving Barrie what he's asking for, 1) the Avs ridiculous internal/individual Duchene cap and 2) the relationship they have with Barrie's agent who also happens to be O'Reilly's agent.

As for an offer sheet, when is the last time an offer sheet wasn't matched?

 

[Vanqu1sh]

Pretty sure Sakic said he'd like to get ROR signed, but wasn't going to let him play out the season unsigned.

Regardless, not sure what that has to do with Roy. He doesn't have a ton of personnel say as he's repeated a few times. Sakic makes the trades.

Roy gave Barrie the 3rd most icetime on the team. The only two ahead of him were Beauch and Johnson, our top pairing, and both guys who PK. Roy loves Barrie.

Haha that answers my question then - surprises me that there are all of these rumours then. Maybe it's just Edmonton pushing for him and then the media hyping it up for clicks and whatnot.

 

[Avs44]

Don't listen to Stauffer, mostly from reading around here, but fair enough. I thought I saw a quote from Roy saying something like he wasn't happy with Barrie's defensive game at all and that he was a #5? And just in general not valuing him at the same level that he (and most others) value him? Or is that just some rumour?

No, it was Terry Frei who said this:

I think he really believes that Tyson Barrie should be at best a fifth defenceman and a power play specialist,

Roy has never said a thing remotely close to that, and Frei is a hack. Roy giving Barrie the most even strength minutes out of any player on the Avs should debunk that idiocy from Frei alone.

 

[Draiskull]

Haha that answers my question then - surprises me that there are all of these rumours then. Maybe it's just Edmonton pushing for him and then the media hyping it up for clicks and whatnot.

yup..maybe there is nothing to it when it comes to Barrie possibly being on the outs.
He is just another RFA who will get re-up'd by his respective team.

AVS have 15M+ in cap space.

 

[McFlyingV]

Tomorrow is filing day for players and Wed is filing day for teams so we'll find out soon enough. There are two factors here that are keeping the Avs from just giving Barrie what he's asking for, 1) the Avs ridiculous internal/individual Duchene cap and 2) the relationship they have with Barrie's agent who also happens to be O'Reilly's agent.

As for an offer sheet, when is the last time an offer sheet wasn't matched?

Not sure, maybe Penner when we offer sheeted him. I just don't understand why they'd match it if they're not willing to give him that money. I suppose they could try to trade him after that, but then everyone will know they're trying to pawn him off because they don't want his contract. Just seems like a weird situation overall.

 

[Seventy7]

Colorado is likely going to want a Dman back in the deal. The fact that Van has one of the best minute munching possession Dmen in the league signed at a friendly cap number, gives them the edge over a team like Edmonton. I fully agree that RNH has more player for player value, but as we saw in Hall for Larsson, supply and demand on dmen, especially RHDmen is driving their market worth through the roof.

its and interesting deal as the two RHDs are polar opposites as far as skill set. Tanev plays a quiet shutdown, puck retrieval, stabilizing and minute munching top 4 defender that can pair well with anyone, but he's petty below average offensively. Barrie is an offensive machine that can put up 3 point games in his sleep. Not so great defensively and probably needs a specific partner to even out his chance taking in the offensive zone.

Does Edmonton have a defender to offer? Would they move Klefbom in a deal for Barrie?

How much more than Tanev would Vancouver need to sweeten the deal? Or is Tanev really the more valuable of the two?

 

[pockets]

Not sure, maybe Penner when we offer sheeted him. I just don't understand why they'd match it if they're not willing to give him that money. I suppose they could try to trade him after that, but then everyone will know they're trying to pawn him off because they don't want his contract. Just seems like a weird situation overall.

I think you're right, Penner was the last one to get offer sheeted and not matched.

Either way, IIRC the Avs didn't want to pay RoR $5mil per season and when CAL offer sheeted him with that number, the Avs immediately matched so I don't necessarily believe they wouldn't match. It would definitely have to be at the upper end of the 1st 2nd & 3rd range at which point I'd really start questioning my GM if he pulled that...

 

[Canucks LB]

so why would the Canucks give up a better d-man in Tanev in order to get Barrie?

We have no PP QB what so ever since ehrhoff

 

[Jarey Curry]

Tomorrow is filing day for players and Wed is filing day for teams so we'll find out soon enough. There are two factors here that are keeping the Avs from just giving Barrie what he's asking for, 1) the Avs ridiculous internal/individual Duchene cap and 2) the relationship they have with Barrie's agent who also happens to be O'Reilly's agent.

As for an offer sheet, when is the last time an offer sheet wasn't matched?

Ridiculous duchene cap? Excuse me but I think it's ridiculous to pay 10,5m for one player... Colorado is filled with young potential and if you capture that with less than 6m per guy I think it's awesome

 

[Jumptheshark]

I would offer sheet Lindholm

 

[Draiskull]

Colorado is likely going to want a Dman back in the deal. The fact that Van has one of the best minute munching possession Dmen in the league signed at a friendly cap number, gives them the edge over a team like Edmonton. I fully agree that RNH has more player for player value, but as we saw in Hall for Larsson, supply and demand on dmen, especially RHDmen is driving their market worth through the roof.

its and interesting deal as the two RHDs are polar opposites as far as skill set. Tanev plays a quiet shutdown, puck retrieval, stabilizing and minute munching top 4 defender that can pair well with anyone, but he's petty below average offensively. Barrie is an offensive machine that can put up 3 point games in his sleep. Not so great defensively and probably needs a specific partner to even out his chance taking in the offensive zone.

Does Edmonton have a defender to offer? Would they move Klefbom in a deal for Barrie?

How much more than Tanev would Vancouver need to sweeten the deal?

Nope .. no chance on a Klefbom for Barrie swap from Oilers perspective...
A 3rd team would have to be involved.

 

[Draiskull]

I would offer sheet Lindholm

wrong thread.
Lindholm is a LHD anyway..

 

[Rebuilt]

Would if I could!

Why cant the Avs just re sign the guy?

 

[mytduxfan*]

alrighty then... I guess you have Raymond now anyway.

So much salt.

 

[pockets]

Ridiculous duchene cap? Excuse me but I think it's ridiculous to pay 10,5m for one player... Colorado is filled with young potential and if you capture that with less than 6m per guy I think it's awesome

I'm not saying pay anyone on the Avs 10.5 per season but yes the internal individual caphit that the Avs have set based on Duchene's number is a bit ridiculous. It's part of the reason why RoR is now on Buffalo...

 

[McFlyingV]

I think you're right, Penner was the last one to get offer sheeted and not matched.

Either way, IIRC the Avs didn't want to pay RoR $5mil per season and when CAL offer sheeted him with that number, the Avs immediately matched so I don't necessarily believe they wouldn't match. It would definitely have to be at the upper end of the 1st 2nd & 3rd range at which point I'd really start questioning my GM if he pulled that...

I suppose. ROR's was only a 2 year offer though wasn't it? If they're worried about giving Barrie money over a 5 year term I wonder if that changes anything. I'm also sure they probably regret how things worked out with ROR so I'm a little surprised they're doing it again with Barrie.

Speaking of ROR, its too bad you guys didn't let him go in that deal. You would have had Monahan and the flames would have had nothing