Confirmed with Link: [MOD WARNING post #272] CBJ acquire Provorov for LA first round pick (#22), conditional ‘24 or ‘25 2nd round pick

[tunnelvision]

They, uh, didn't support freedom of choice for Lefebvre or Rinaldo.

Anyway, Jarmo using some terminology here that makes me think he's a moron, so at least I'm more steadfast in my decision not to financially support this team.

First of all, you can respect one's freedom of choice without accepting them to do whatever with no consequences. It was their choice to not follow league's and Blue Jackets' rules. Secondly, the quote seems like a typical PR puff piece so to me it carries very little meaning. Maybe Jarmo's intent there was to cool people down until they get a proper press conference set for Provorov to answer these off-ice related questions.

 

[Cowumbus]

Here's my problem with this - specifically the "pride stuff" and not even going into the "other stuff." This isn't a matter of opinion, where there are two sides with valid points of view and they'll just never agree. One "side" is not valid and it's not acceptable in North American society anymore.

Yes, you can have your thoughts and feelings, but the NHL, its teams & HFBoards should have more balls and shut down the expressing of them (when it comes to this subject). It creates opportunity for more of it, it encourages more of it, and just by acquiring the guy it's now happening here on CBJ's boards. The fact that we now have to listen to it, pretend it's "political" and valid and therefore not address it head on, is maddening. The fact that posters can say this might not generate locker room issues (among other things) is crazy to me - they're "keeping it about hockey" but we know what they're saying. It's thinly veiled bullshit and it's wrong. Hockey is for everyone. HFBoards is for everyone.

In other words: If you don’t believe, feel and act as I do we need to silence you! - WHAT!?

Hockey is for everyone. Nobody is arguing that. Do you actually think Provorov believes that certain people should be excluded from hockey? Before you scream yes, the answer is no - and not wearing a jersey is not an “attack” on someone’s rights/value as a human nor is it saying you don’t belong! Give me a break.

I am not going to outwardly promote something that I feel is wrong (by wearing a jersey) and long term bad for society - people can do to what they want, but don’t force me to do something because you feel a certain way.

Respect and support are very different things my friend. I respect your post and point of view, but I do NOT support it.

 

[Viqsi]

First of all, you can respect one's freedom of choice without accepting them to do whatever with no consequences. It was their choice to not follow league's and Blue Jackets' rules. Secondly, the quote seems like a typical PR puff piece so to me it carries very little meaning. Maybe Jarmo's intent there was to cool people down until they get a proper press conference set for Provorov to answer these off-ice related questions.

Looking forward to that, absolutely.

 

[Viqsi]

Hockey is for everyone. Nobody is arguing that.

Except plenty of folks emboldened by his actions kind of are arguing exactly that.

 

[Monk]

In other words: If you don’t believe, feel and act as I do we need to silence you! - WHAT!?

When it comes to subjects that are as simply right & wrong as this, then yes. Surely you can think of other examples you don't feel professional athletes should be allowed to freely express in team colors? This is one of them, you just haven't realized it yet.

 

[Cowumbus]

Except plenty of folks emboldened by his actions kind of are arguing exactly that.

Show me someone who is making the argument that LGBTQ people don’t belong in hockey, and I’ll tell them they are wrong.

 

[Viqsi]

Show me someone who is making the argument that LGBTQ people don’t belong in hockey, and I’ll tell them they are wrong.

See that Dispatch article? A tweet of mine got quoted. Check the replies.

Yes, I know Twitter isn't generally representative of the world as a whole, and thank G-d for that. But it's still out there.

 

[Crede777]

Lookit me, I got quoted.

Some LGBTQ+ fans frustrated with Columbus Blue Jackets' trade acquisition of Ivan Provorov

'I’ve got some serious thinking to do about my season tickets after this move,' one Twitter user said of Columbus Blue Jackets acquiring Ivan Provorov

www.dispatch.com

I always knew you'd be famous!

In my opinion, wearing the Pride Night jersey is a personal choice. Unlike the team and league-wide vaccine mandate where an unvaccinated individual can potentially act as a carrier and impact those in their immediate vicinity, the choice to support a cause like Pride Night should have no external ramifications beyond the individual.

Ideally, Provorov would have refused to wear the jersey, the Flyers still have Pride Night and the other players wear the Pride jerseys, and the Provorov has to answer questions afterwards about his choice. Instead, the Flyers chose to align themselves with one player instead of a base of fans.

My main issue is when the choice by one or a few players to not wear the jersey results in the team cancelling the event. Then it really does lend a disproportionate platform to a view that I disagree with and undermines the message that hockey is for everyone.

 

[Monk]

i wholeheartedly agree with this but think it's worth noting that he comes from a country/culture with a much different (and deeply-ingrained) position, which has been codified in their laws. he's also a professional athlete, with a level of wealth that provides the means to insulate himself and not have his views challenged.

on a one-to-one level, i don't think provorov expressing that abhorrent set of values is the same as someone like eric staal or james reimer, who were born and raised in canada and have enough lived experience in this culture that they should've been challenged on these views enough by now.

that said, on a macro level… provorov did start the trend that enabled the staals to also sit out. it's caused enormous pain for LGBT+ fans, and any validity to the geopolitical/cultural differences angle here doesn't do anything to alleviate that.

I'm talking about the league & teams' actions or lack thereof. Provorov is 100% free to think and feel what he wants. Why he thinks them is irrelevant. But he's also been in North America since he was like 13 I believe, so sorta moot.

 

[Viqsi]

I always knew you'd be famous!

In my opinion, wearing the Pride Night jersey is a personal choice. Unlike the team and league-wide vaccine mandate where an unvaccinated individual can potentially act as a carrier and impact those in their immediate vicinity, the choice to support a cause like Pride Night should have no external ramifications beyond the individual.

Ideally, Provorov would have refused to wear the jersey, the Flyers still have Pride Night and the other players wear the Pride jerseys, and the Provorov has to answer questions afterwards about his choice. Instead, the Flyers chose to align themselves with one player instead of a base of fans.

My main issue is when the choice by one or a few players to not wear the jersey results in the team cancelling the event. Then it really does lend a disproportionate platform to a view that I disagree with and undermines the message that hockey is for everyone.

That's probably fair. Still frustrating and disappointing tho.

 

[Halfboard]

When we get healthy Werenski, Gudbranson not playing anything more than 3rd line, our young guys mature, we bring in some defensively responsible forwards (hopefully Voronkov), Babcock establishes discipline, it all might not be so bad on the defensive side of things




Ah yes, the continuing 23 year pipe dream....

 

[Cowumbus]

See that Dispatch article? A tweet of mine got quoted. Check the replies.

Yes, I know Twitter isn't generally representative of the world as a whole, and thank G-d for that.

Should have known, it’s always people with no photo and names like LA68151. Cowards.

 

[Crede777]

That's probably fair. Still frustrating and disappointing tho.

I definitely agree with you. I was disappointed by Provorov's choice.

There's a difference to me between being disappointed with a player choice versus having the team scrap the event entirely. The player choice can be minimized. The player can be booed. The player can be asked questions in post-game interviews. But the team following suit does more harm IMO in perpetuating the status quo and granting a bigger platform.

Also there's an aspect of surprise for me. I was not surprised that a Russian Orthodox player would refuse to support LGBTQ+ initiatives. I was surprised that a team would scrap the event entirely.

 

[Cowumbus]

When it comes to subjects that are as simply right & wrong as this, then yes.

I appreciate your passion, but objectively this is your opinion.

Surely you can think of other examples you don't feel professional athletes should be allowed to freely express in team colors?

I don’t really like the military stuff either, especially every single game..

This is one of them, you just haven't realized it yet.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Monk]

this is your opinion.

It's not and that's my point. The number of people unaware of that fact grows smaller and smaller. Sometimes 10 steps forward, 9 steps back, but it's happening.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

In other words: If you don’t believe, feel and act as I do we need to silence you! - WHAT!?

Hockey is for everyone. Nobody is arguing that. Do you actually think Provorov believes that certain people should be excluded from hockey? Before you scream yes, the answer is no - and not wearing a jersey is not an “attack” on someone’s rights/value as a human nor is it saying you don’t belong! Give me a break.

I am not going to outwardly promote something that I feel is wrong (by wearing a jersey) and long term bad for society - people can do to what they want, but don’t force me to do something because you feel a certain way.

Respect and support are very different things my friend. I respect your post and point of view, but I do NOT support it.

Honestly, I see it as the opposite.

The intent of the jersey and wearing it and all of the events are to showcase that hockey is for everyone. The jersey is a symbol of inclusion. By not wearing the jersey, it says to me that you don't believe they should be included.

It is possible to disagree with someone's lifestyle and/or personal choices but still welcome them into the sport. Not wearing the jersey or supporting the event give the optics to me that you don't support inclusion. That is my issue with the trend Provorov started across the league.

What if Provorov has/had a teammate who was afraid to come out? His public statement and the symbol of his lack of support now makes it harder for that person to feel comfortable with the possibility that his teammates (or at least ones of them) would accept him as a person.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I’m sorry but I’m going to take all stats from players on terrible teams with a grain of salt.

Well, good thing he's going to a worse team, then. Also, relative to his teammates he was bad.

Oh no not the charts.

I’ll sit through the social issue invading sports debates. But I can’t do the analytics charts for defensemen boys. im out

A 1st and a 2nd for a guy who, at best, is a "well, maybe he just needs a change of scenery" away from possibly being a top 4 guy? Yikes.

For nearly an identical cap hit and 2 more years of term, Ottawa paid a 1st and two 2nds for Chychrun.

 

[KJ Dangler]

If anything , I’m more convinced than ever in Jarmos abilities as a gm. All the off the ice nonsense is just noise . Babcock, you actually really look into the few reasons he’s demonized everywhere , and for the most part it’s a nothing burger. It’s plain as day to see, even people around this board started with a certain mindset because lets face it , the media , social media wake up with the mentality what can we be outraged about today , and narratives are formed . Babcock has made the playoffs 16 out of 18 years . He’s a flat out winner , and Jarmos job is to get results on the ice … As for Provorov .. Who cares he didn’t take part in pride night . Jarmo may personally support it , yet he knows what’s important .. can Provorov play hockey , and help the team . Provorov is more talented than Werenski from a skill standpoint . He’s been on a brutally bad defensive team, extremely durable , so his stock is down , as was Gavrikovs, and then he went to LA , and you saw on a competent team , he looked like a very good defenseman… As for the pride night situation , My guess is it won’t be an issue next year , NHL won’t force this on players next year . Businesses are being decimated by forcing politics on their customers , people have had enough . Provorov shouldn’t be looked at poorly because he has different views .

 

[Cinderblox]

People read too much into something, he's choosing to not wear a jersey, not causing a trans genocide

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

If anything , I’m more convinced than ever in Jarmos abilities as a gm. All the off the ice nonsense is just noise . Babcock, you actually really look into the few reasons he’s demonized everywhere , and for the most part it’s a nothing burger. It’s plain as day to see, even people around this board started with a certain mindset because lets face it , the media , social media wake up with the mentality what can we be outraged about today , and narratives are formed . Babcock has made the playoffs 16 out of 18 years . He’s a flat out winner , and Jarmos job is to get results on the ice … As for Provorov .. Who cares he didn’t take part in pride night . Jarmo may personally support it , yet he knows what’s important .. can Provorov play hockey , and help the team . Provorov is more talented than Werenski from a skill standpoint . He’s been on a brutally bad defensive team, extremely durable , so his stock is down , as was Gavrikovs, and then he went to LA , and you saw on a competent team , he looked like a very good defenseman… As for the pride night situation , My guess is it won’t be an issue next year , NHL won’t force this on players next year . Businesses are being decimated by forcing politics on their customers , people have had enough . Provorov shouldn’t be looked at poorly because he has different views .

Paragraphs are your friend. I won't get into "forcing" politics because it isn't political except when people make it political. I said my peace on support the Hockey is for Everyone.

That being said. I'm more concerned about his diminishing stats and the reports he is a bit of a locker room issue. As far as on ice performance, he can prove me wrong but his recent history doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. If his play rebounds, great but I need to see results before I get giddy.

 

[CBJx614]

Well, good thing he's going to a worse team, then. Also, relative to his teammates he was bad.







A 1st and a 2nd for a guy who, at best, is a "well, maybe he just needs a change of scenery" away from possibly being a top 4 guy? Yikes.

For nearly an identical cap hit and 2 more years of term, Ottawa paid a 1st and two 2nds for Chychrun.

Acquiring Chyrchrun was a two way street and he didn't want to be here so that's a moot point. And if you'll recall Jarmo tried at least TWICE to acquire him and it didn't work..

 

[Cowumbus]

The intent of the jersey and wearing it and all of the events are to showcase that hockey is for everyone. The jersey is a symbol of inclusion.

If the jersey just said “hockey is for everyone” in normal PHI colors, would he would have worn it?

 

[cslebn]

Wow this thread is something.

I'll just go with wish we'd picked up Weegar or signed Soucy instead.

 

[CBJx614]

Wow this thread is something.

I'll just go with wish we'd picked up Weegar or signed Soucy instead.

It's never too late.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

A 1st and a 2nd for a guy who, at best, is a "well, maybe he just needs a change of scenery" away from possibly being a top 4 guy? Yikes.

these same chart guys all said gavrikov and jones were worthless. public models cannot account for team/scheme/role and do a piss-poor job of evaluating big-minute defensemen on bad teams.

case in point: we're like two years removed from all these dorks saying that drew doughty was the worst defenseman in the league, which coincided with LAK having a couple of down seasons. now they're good again, and so are his fancy stats.

hell, before buffalo traded brandon montour, dom luszczyszyn wrote something to the effect of "montour plays big minutes but doesn't deliver results, there's not a scenario where he would actually be more effective" and now, guess what, his model LOVES montour in florida.

For nearly an identical cap hit and 2 more years of term, Ottawa paid a 1st and two 2nds for Chychrun.

the 12th overall pick (and chances that it slides to an unprotected 2024 pick) >>>>>> the 22nd overall pick