OT: MLB Thread XXIX: Marcus Stroman is a.....Met???

[Bob Richards]

I'd prefer to keep Syndergaard

 

[Machinehead]

This teams are just flat out comical.

There are no true Aces on the market. A lot of 2/3 tweener starters. And yet these teams think they will get a 22 year old All Star Second Basemen. Where is the precedent for that type of ask? Again for a 2/3 tweener SP?

Lol MLB Lol. Piss off.

Teams will still be asking for Torres when he's 36 lol.

They can't get it through their heads that he's not a prospect anymore. He's an all-star starting second baseman.

 

[darko]

Teams will still be asking for Torres when he's 36 lol.

They can't get it through their heads that he's not a prospect anymore. He's an all-star starting second baseman.

That's because 36 year old Gleyber will be hitting 30 home runs a year.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think the Mets helped in that sense.

You can’t really ask for the world when one of the best pitchers on the market didn’t even return a top 100 prospect.

 

[darko]

I Don't buy the Syndergaard rumors at all. If they are true and SD wants them this is what I want

I want them to take Cano and I will take Myers. They will pick up the balance in salary. Plus he only has 3 years left
I want Lucchesi or Paddack
Urias
Reyes or Renfroe

They say no then see ya. No problem keeping Noah.

Wheeler will be dealt, along with Frazier. They keep Vargas IMO.

Cano is owed some 30 mill more. And you want them to give up Paddack, Urias and someone like Renfroe who is on pace for a 40 HR season. Good luck.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Oh you mean like the Mets just did for Stroman...

Look, I'm a Mets fan and I've knocked them mercilessly, but they did not trade their two best pitching prospects.

 

[LouJersey]

Look, I'm a Mets fan and I've knocked theme mercilessly, but they did not trade their two best pitching prospects.

 

[darko]

Not sure how anyone can call Stroman trade a bad deal for Mets. Stroman isn't an ace, he can be inconsistent but he's a very good #3.

 

[RGY]

Look, I'm a Mets fan and I've knocked theme mercilessly, but they did not trade their two best pitching prospects.

Sorry my post wasnt clear.

I meant that the Mets did not trade any elite pitching prospect, despite where they were ranked within the Mets system.

Then I was transitioning to say the Padres are rumored to not offering any of their top pitching prospects for Syndergaard. At least that was a tweet from one of the baseball insiders last night

 

[RGY]

The last part is the problem with the Mets. No real direction. Everyone is confused but BVW apparently. Starting to think he doesnt even know what he is trying to do.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If they're going to flip Stroman they'll probably get more than they gave up.

The price to acquire him was very low.

Between him and Thor they could get back a ton. Wheeler won't return nearly as much.

 

[LouJersey]

The last part is the problem with the Mets. No real direction. Everyone is confused but BVW apparently. Starting to think he doesnt even know what he is trying to do.

TYpical media nonsense. BVW made a bad deal (remains to be seen how bad despite the enshrining of Dunn and Kelenic into the HOF)

Two years is a long time in baseball. Is wanting a front four of DeGrom, Syndergaard, Stroman and Matz a bad thing? The Mets are horrible and yet still close to the WC picture.

 

[RGY]

 

[RGY]

 

[Cassano]

Jays are a banter ballclub.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Stroman also posted a pic of himself as a child in Mets gear.

I heard he actually wanted that to be Yankee gear, but the price was also too high for that too.

Baseball world been conspiring against the Yanks since the early 90s.

 

[nyr2k2]

I said it on another forum right as the trade was leaking and people were freaking out--Anthony Kay is Jon Niese and SWR is a reliever who is going to blow out his arm in the next couple years. I liked both of them, but the idea that they're high-end is misguided. They're high-end in the Mets system, but that's it.

Keivn Smith will be viewed as positively as Kay by next year. Kilome has more upside than both if he comes back healthy. Allan and Wolf will both likely be better. In a couple years, Junior Santos could be an absolute stud. It's not like there's nothing left. That said, I liked Dunn more than most having seen him in person multiple times, and wish they could have moved Peterson instead of him in the Cano/Diaz deal.

 

[nyr2k2]

I also think it would be foolish to move Diaz. He has been unlucky this year. .398 BABIP? Come on. 20% HR/FB? Not going to continue. The K's are still excellent at >13 and the walks are <3, so he's doing fine. The 3.24 xFIP isn't dominant, but I think it much more in line with who he is.

You only move him if you get an offer that blows you away. Otherwise, he's more valuable moving forward as someone you keep and build around. ZiPS, Steamer, and Depth Charts predict FIPs of 2.96, 2.68, and 2.82 moving forward, based on his past performance and current peripherals. They predict the 7th, 11th, and 4th best ERA for him moving forward out of all pitchers. He's still a stud, even if he's been unlucky.

 

[JimmyG89]

I said it on another forum right as the trade was leaking and people were freaking out--Anthony Kay is Jon Niese and SWR is a reliever who is going to blow out his arm in the next couple years. I liked both of them, but the idea that they're high-end is misguided. They're high-end in the Mets system, but that's it.

Keivn Smith will be viewed as positively as Kay by next year. Kilome has more upside than both if he comes back healthy. Allan and Wolf will both likely be better. In a couple years, Junior Santos could be an absolute stud. It's not like there's nothing left. That said, I liked Dunn more than most having seen him in person multiple times, and wish they could have moved Peterson instead of him in the Cano/Diaz deal.

Reading reports on Kay, he is either a bottom of the rotation guy that will be in the league for a while or someone that can come out of the pen as somewhat of a specialist.

Now, all of that could change, but at 24 and struggling with AAA as of right now, it's going to be an uphill battle to become more than a #3. And SWR is someone that could go anywhere. He's still 18 and in A ball. That's a big gamble they are taking, but based on the reports that I read, the Blue Jays were trying to draft SWR last year and the Mets beat them to the punch.

Everyone praised their draft this year and I believe they did fairly well with international signings.

I also wonder if the team hasn't been thrilled with their prospects and are looking to move out those they don't like and then acquire players they do like. Since the scouting staff isn't the same as it was before BVW, you have to wonder with the different set of eyes on these guys if they are clearing some out before they believe they will lose value on them.

 

[nyr2k2]

Reading reports on Kay, he is either a bottom of the rotation guy that will be in the league for a while or someone that can come out of the pen as somewhat of a specialist.

Now, all of that could change, but at 24 and struggling with AAA as of right now, it's going to be an uphill battle to become more than a #3. And SWR is someone that could go anywhere. He's still 18 and in A ball. That's a big gamble they are taking, but based on the reports that I read, the Blue Jays were trying to draft SWR last year and the Mets beat them to the punch.

Everyone praised their draft this year and I believe they did fairly well with international signings.

I also wonder if the team hasn't been thrilled with their prospects and are looking to move out those they don't like and then acquire players they do like. Since the scouting staff isn't the same as it was before BVW, you have to wonder with the different set of eyes on these guys if they are clearing some out before they believe they will lose value on them.

That all sounds plausible.

IMO, the only reason the Mets are catching any flak for this is because no one knows what they're doing next. We don't know the whole plan (which might not become clear until after the season), and so everyone is evaluating the Stroman trade in a vacuum. "Oh it's the LOLMets, giving up prospects for pitching when they are also trying to give up pitching for prospects! Who knows what they're doing! LOL!" I get it, BVW is an agent, and the Cano/Diaz deal hasn't looked great, Diaz has been unlucky, but okay, pin it on him. Familia looked like a good move and he's having the worst year of his life. Gsellman has been garbage again. Some of the depth moves like Avilan and Santiago have not worked out. Syndergaard and Wheeler have struggled. You can't pin all of that on BVW. He inherited a bad team and tried to quickly transform it into a competitive one; I liked most of the moves so I can't blame him myself. Give him at least another year to see if he really has a plan or is just winging it.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I also think it would be foolish to move Diaz. He has been unlucky this year. .398 BABIP? Come on. 20% HR/FB? Not going to continue. The K's are still excellent at >13 and the walks are <3, so he's doing fine. The 3.24 xFIP isn't dominant, but I think it much more in line with who he is.

You only move him if you get an offer that blows you away. Otherwise, he's more valuable moving forward as someone you keep and build around. ZiPS, Steamer, and Depth Charts predict FIPs of 2.96, 2.68, and 2.82 moving forward, based on his past performance and current peripherals. They predict the 7th, 11th, and 4th best ERA for him moving forward out of all pitchers. He's still a stud, even if he's been unlucky.

Some of it is luck but a lot of it is also just him having a bad year. 45% hard hit rate which is bottom 4% in the league so that partially explains the high babip and hr/fb%, he really got barreled up this year. it's not like balls were squeaking through holes and barely clearing fences. his hard hit rate the last 3 years were 33, 34 and 35.

you'd expect him to be better going forward.

 

[nyr2k2]

Some of it is luck but a lot of it is also just him having a bad year. 45% hard hit rate which is bottom 4% in the league so that partially explains the high babip and hr/fb%, he really got barreled up this year. it's not like balls were squeaking through holes and barely clearing fences. his hard hit rate the last 3 years were 33, 34 and 35.

you'd expect him to be better going forward.

What explains it, though? He velocity was still well above 97, his spin rate is still excellent. Why is he suddenly getting hit hard when all the stuff is still there, and he's still missing bats at close to his career rate?

 

[mrmovies779]

What explains it, though? He velocity was still well above 97, his spin rate is still excellent. Why is he suddenly getting hit hard when all the stuff is still there, and he's still missing bats at close to his career rate?

Falling behind more into hitter's counts possibly

 

[East Coast Bias]

IMO, the only reason the Mets are catching any flak for this is because no one knows what they're doing next.

Well that and they dared muck up the market for the Yankees.

 

[nyr2k2]

Falling behind more into hitter's counts possibly

I look, and I see everything almost exactly as it normally is. I see two other things that jump out at me:

Zone swing %: 75%, when he's never had it about 70%. Guy are swinging more at pitches in the zone.
Outside zone contact %: a staggering 61%, when previously he has been at 40%, 51%, and 40%.

Guys are swinging at literally everything he throws, and particularly on bad pitches, are absolutely killing him (goes back to that .400 BABIP). His first-pitch strike % is 65%, actually 3.5% above his average. He's throwing the same composition of pitches at the same velocities.

To me, it just looks like guys are randomly making a lot of hard contact on bad pitches, and playing against him to an unsustainably high BABIP. Who knows. My point remains--unless you get a premium return, he should be held onto as he's clearly a bounce-back candidate. Like I see the guys being discussed with the Red Sox--Casas and Dalbec--no f***ing thanks. Two 1B with power and huge contact concerns. The last position we need is 1B.