OT: MLB Thread XXIX: Marcus Stroman is a.....Met???

[Greg02]

The Yankees and the Mets are not rivals.

Apparently only the Mets think they are.

New York NL fans have hated the Yankees before the Mets even existed.

 

[nyr2k2]

It's clear as day to me.

Teams know that unlike all other MLB teams, the Yankees are under pressure EVERY YEAR to win it all. It's the way it is. Teams then see the Yankees excellent farm system and put two and two together and won't budge off ridiculous asks out of principle/Yankees hate/waiting for Cashman to concede to the pressure of his fan base. I really dislike the 'whoa is me' mantra, but there's definitely smoke here.

This would also apply now to, I don't know, the Red Sox and Dodgers. It could also exist in a situation where a team with a capped budget is taken advantage of by wealthier clubs. Or using your status as a desirable location to your advantage over teams in undesirable locations. Etc. That's nothing untoward, it's just exploiting inefficiencies and inequalities in markets and among teams. If that's what we're complaining about when we talk about a "Yankees tax," then...okay? That's pretty standard stuff.

 

[One Winged Angel]

If the Yankees tax doesn't have to be in exact words, neither does that. Oh wait, guess that only works one way.

That’s what I thought. You’ve got nothing.

Go stuff words in someone else’s mouth in lieu of an actual argument.

 

[Cassano]

 

[Machinehead]

You referred to the Vargas deal as clinching "Yankee Tax" so if its not about him than what? Vargas for a career minor leaguer and cash is a trade the Mets make with anyone. Jeff Wilpon would have personally [k]driven[/k] sent Vargas to Yankee Stadium via a [k]Limo[/k] uber pool if they agreed to that deal.

Any team that's considered a good evaluator of talent and is known to generally win deals, and also has financial resources is going to have to pay more than most teams. It's not a tinfoil hat theory, it's a fact.

As a fan, it's extremely frustrating. That's what it's about.

 

[Machinehead]

It is about the specific players involved. If we're talking about a rental reliever that is in the middle of the bullpen, which was the last kind of trade those teams made, it's something that will happen.

We're talking front line starters. It's not the same thing.

Nobody is comparing them.

The point is, if they're crossing that line with the Phillies, there's no reason they shouldn't with the Yankees if the offer is fair.

 

[Cassano]

Shane Green is nothing special. I'd rather have 5 guys in our pen right now. No sleep lost over that.

 

[JimmyG89]

This would also apply now to, I don't know, the Red Sox and Dodgers. It could also exist in a situation where a team with a capped budget is taken advantage of by wealthier clubs. Or using your status as a desirable location to your advantage over teams in undesirable locations. Etc. That's nothing untoward, it's just exploiting inefficiencies and inequalities in markets and among teams. If that's what we're complaining about when we talk about a "Yankees tax," then...okay? That's pretty standard stuff.

That Yankees tax was HUGE on Stanton when they got him and he demanded to only go to 4 teams. They paid a huge tax on Chapman after his DV issues. They had to pay out of the nose for those guys. That's an MVP and a top closer.

Oh wait, you're telling me they gave up next to nothing for those players. I'm sure if the Mets had asked for Chapman that the Reds would have donated him to us. In fact, we would have gotten prospects from the Reds WITH Chapman for cash only.

Yankees tax......

 

[Filthy Dangles]

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Give us 28 now.

 

[RonDuguaysShirt]

Don't buy this angle.

New York City could support three major league teams.

Sure, but why help your rival grab an even larger share of the market? If George Steinbrenner were alive and the shoe was on the other foot, no chance in hell would he allow a trade to the Mets that improved their chance of winning a World Series, even if they had the best package on the table. Personally, to me if you are selling assets, the purpose of doing so should be to get the best pieces back. Doesn't matter anyway because apparently Wheeler is staying put. The monorail salesman GM is delusional.

 

[sbjnyc]

Any team that's considered a good evaluator of talent and is known to generally win deals, and also has financial resources is going to have to pay more than most teams. It's not a tinfoil hat theory, it's a fact.

As a fan, it's extremely frustrating. That's what it's about.

Did the Yankees get Torres because of a Cub tax or Frazier as a Indian tax?

 

[JimmyG89]

Nobody is comparing them.

The point is, if they're crossing that line with the Phillies, there's no reason they shouldn't with the Yankees if the offer is fair.

They are crossing the line on depth players. Dime a dozen guys. If the Mets were selling and they had Vargas still and Yankees asked them for him, I'm pretty sure that they would have done it.

It's never the case though, it's always the better players on either team.

 

[nyr2k2]

Obtuse? How so? I’ve already shown 2 instances in which I’m right. Ray, as I said before is to be determined but with your scope of baseball knowledge, do you really think Robbie friggin Ray is worth that, when Cole and Stroman returned LESSER returns while being better pitchers at a similar age with similar term left on their deals at the time in which they were traded? Please, I’d LOVE to see this answer.

You can’t be serious with this. Either you’re not thinking it through enough or your clear hatred of the Yankees is preventing you from doing so.



You know that when negotiations hit a snag quickly, it means that something went so wrong that there wasn’t even an attempt to hit a middle ground, right?

Ray is not worth Frazier plus three. Never said he was! Is it okay to start by asking for that? Sure, why not? Maybe AZ thinks NYY is desperate, and they can get Frazier plus one of the three original asks and then a lesser guy. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

If Frazier plus three was the FINAL ask, I'd say AZ must be kind of crazy. Doesn't show me there's inherently unfair treatment towards the Yankees in negotiations. There isn't enough information to make that conclusion. It does lead YOU to that conclusion because that's where you're already at.

As to the second point, yes, it can mean negotiations were never serious, it can mean one or both sides was unwilling to compromise, it can mean one or both sides were incompetent, etc. It can mean a lot of sides.

OR IT CAN MEAN IT'S THE YANKEES TAX! Whatever, man. Believe what you want. I know how hard you guys have it!

 

[2Leetch_94]

Congratulations Baseball, you managed to suck the fun out of free agency and the deadline.

 

[Machinehead]

Did the Yankees get Torres because of a Cub tax or Frazier as a Indian tax?

That deadline is exactly when other GM's stopped f***ing with Cashman.

 

[JimmyG89]

 

[East Coast Bias]

If the Mets don't want to trade with the Yankees, thats their prerogative.

If they're passing up an superior players because of this, their fans should be livid.

Yeah i dont disagree with this

I don't think the teams were ever a good match. The Mets were looking to make moves, but still compete now. Reports wree pretty consistent that the Mets were asking for major leaguers or major league ready players. There aren't many Yankee pitching prospects close to the majors, and they're not trading Garcia for Wheeler. Frazier? Maybe but that doesn't solve the Mets rotation hole then.

You can argue whether the Mets trying to compete now is smart or not, but it's not really relevant to this discussion. The reality is they're all in. It's the driving factor in their ask and negotiations.

Which kinda proves the point people are trying to make.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Grienke to Astros.

Sticky icky bout to turn him back into a beast.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

unf***ing real

 

[nyr2k2]

So I assume the Mets qualify Wheeler and hope he declines.

 

[One Winged Angel]

That Yankees tax was HUGE on Stanton when they got him and he demanded to only go to 4 teams. They paid a huge tax on Chapman after his DV issues. They had to pay out of the nose for those guys. That's an MVP and a top closer.

2 apples to oranges comparisons...

- A team bleeding cash that changed ownership NEEDED to trade a player who demanded to be traded to 2 locations (one of them which didn’t want to give up assets) for financial purposes.

And...

- A player who was an absolute PR NIGHTMARE after a domestic violence issue and the Yankees were literally the only team that was going to surrender anything of value to get him.

Thank you for posting 2 completely irrelevant deals that do nothing to prove the point you’re trying to make.

 

[JimmyG89]

2 apples to oranges comparisons...

- A team bleeding cash that changed ownership NEEDED to trade a player who demanded to be traded to 2 locations (one of them which didn’t want to give up assets) for financial purposes.

And...

- A player who was an absolute PR NIGHTMARE after a domestic violence issue and the Yankees were literally the only team that was going to surrender anything of value to get him.

Thank you for posting 2 completely irrelevant deals that do nothing to prove the point you’re trying to make.

Actually you made the point that the tax doesn't exist and its the point I've made numerous times over the course of this thread: Fans of teams do not take into account what the other team wants to do.

There is no tax. The other team has a goal in mind. That's it. It's simple. They want specific players and Cashman won't budge on them. Is he wrong or right to do so? Maybe, but it actually proves that there is no tax.

 

[JimmyG89]

So I assume the Mets qualify Wheeler and hope he declines.

He will decline most likely. SP market is not strong this offseason for free agents. He'll very likely secure a deal that surpasses the QO over term. Could see something like 3-4 years and $55M-$65M total.

 

[2Leetch_94]