OT: MLB Thread XXIX: Marcus Stroman is a.....Met???

[JimmyG89]

Yeah, your team is entitled to make deals with everyone. You must make trades with us.

f*** off.

 

[Machinehead]

Collusion is the word you’re looking for.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yeah, your team is entitled to make deals with everyone. You must make trades with us.

**** off.

Because that’s what’s being said. Right.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah, your team is entitled to make deals with everyone. You must make trades with us.

**** off.

Nobody said anyone is entitled. To ban the Yankees when you're willing to trade with your absolute arch-rival is extremely petulant.

And again, the Mets are not the only team. And the Yankees are not the only team this happens to.

 

[romba]

That says ask, not initial ask. There’s nothing about anything after that. Ask Heyman if you really want to know. Also considering that Nightengale said the talks were dead, I’d have to imagine there wasn’t a reduction or willingness to meet in the middle, because as quickly as the talks were reported, it was reported that they died. But I imagine you’ll spin that someway.

It's clear as day to me.

Teams know that unlike all other MLB teams, the Yankees are under pressure EVERY YEAR to win it all. It's the way it is. Teams then see the Yankees excellent farm system and put two and two together and won't budge off ridiculous asks out of principle/Yankees hate/waiting for Cashman to concede to the pressure of his fan base. I really dislike the 'whoa is me' mantra, but there's definitely smoke here.

 

[Machinehead]

It's clear as day to me.

Teams know that unlike all other MLB teams, the Yankees are under pressure EVERY YEAR to win it all. It's the way it is. Teams then see the Yankees excellent farm system and put two and two together and won't budge off ridiculous asks out of principle/Yankees hate/waiting for Cashman to concede to the pressure of his fan base. I really dislike the 'whoa is me' mantra, but there's definitely smoke here.

All you're doing is repeatedly rewording exactly what we're saying to disagree for the sake of disagreeing.

 

[JimmyG89]

Because that’s what’s being said. Right.

It actually is exactly what is being said. You don't like that we won't make trades with your team. As states above, there are 28 other teams. If you remove the other AL East contenders, that's 26 more teams.

If you can't fix your issues with that many teams to deal with, it's on Cashman.

 

[nyr2k2]

Apparently the Pirates did. Apparently Arizona does. Frazier and 3 prospects for Robbie Ray?

Now you’re just being childish.

You're being obtuse. What did Arizona ask for from other teams? Can you tell me? Can you tell me if what they asked from others teams was more, less, or equal to Frazier plus three prospects? Was Frazier plus three prospects the opening ask? Was it the final ask? Can you tell me that? Unless you can answer these questions, you're not going to to be able to demonstrate that any particular team was/is being treated unfairly. Instead, you're making assumptions based on hugely incomplete information to support your unfounded notion that other teams are unfair to the Yankees.

You know you start off with a big ask for your most attractive chip, right? The Mets were reportedly asking for so much for Syndergaard that other teams hesitated to call back. Do the Mets have an "every other team" tax or were they just asking for a justifiably huge return?

Childish, right.

 

[JimmyG89]

you're willing to trade with your absolute arch-rival is extremely petulant

Are you comparing Asdrubal Cabrera and Jason Vargas to Zach Wheeler and Noah Syndergaard? That would be something.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Teams then see the Yankees excellent farm system

Their farm system is massively overrated here. It's ranked 20-25 by every metric I've seen in the past year. It's not bad, but it's not great. And it's not full of guys who are considered blue chip prospects anymore. It's Garcia and all low ball guys for pitching.

Garcia is solid, but he's tiny. Some teams absolutely will ding him as a prospect for his size. You may not agree, I may not agree, but it's a fact. This industry LOVES the big body pitcher.

So it's far more likely that teams just really don't like what the Yankees have than all the conspiracy stuff.

 

[One Winged Angel]

It's clear as day to me.

Teams know that unlike all other MLB teams, the Yankees are under pressure EVERY YEAR to win it all. It's the way it is. Teams then see the Yankees excellent farm system and put two and two together and won't budge off ridiculous asks out of principle/Yankees hate/waiting for Cashman to concede to the pressure of his fan base. I really dislike the 'whoa is me' mantra, but there's definitely smoke here.

I could understand the “whoa is me” angle if it was just one instance. However, there’s now several instances across both leagues and teams in and out of the division.

How much more clear can it be? Leave it to Met fans to ignore something so blatant.

 

[RonDuguaysShirt]

IMO Yankees and Mets are absolutely rivals. Not division rivals, not even in the same league. But they compete for fans in the seats, eyes on the screen, ad revenue, etc in the same market. So competitive rivals in the same division, no. But they are absolutely business rivals.

 

[romba]

All you're doing is repeatedly rewording exactly what we're saying to disagree for the sake of disagreeing.

Except that I agree

 

[One Winged Angel]

It actually is exactly what is being said. You don't like that we won't make trades with your team. As states above, there are 28 other teams. If you remove the other AL East contenders, that's 26 more teams.

If you can't fix your issues with that many teams to deal with, it's on Cashman.

That’s exactly what’s being said?

Then quote me where I said those EXACT words.

I’ll wait.

 

[Machinehead]

Are you comparing Asdrubal Cabrera and Jason Vargas to Zach Wheeler and Noah Syndergaard? That would be something.

Again, it's not about the specific players involved.

 

[Machinehead]

Except that I agree

I apologise then, I must have read something wrong.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Are you comparing Asdrubal Cabrera and Jason Vargas to Zach Wheeler and Noah Syndergaard? That would be something.

You’re terrible at this translation bit. Just stop.

 

[Machinehead]

IMO Yankees and Mets are absolutely rivals. Not division rivals, not even in the same league. But they compete for fans in the seats, eyes on the screen, ad revenue, etc in the same market. So competitive rivals in the same division, no. But they are absolutely business rivals.

Don't buy this angle.

New York City could support three major league teams.

 

[romba]

I apologise then, I must have read something wrong.

All good, I'm trying to be fair and logical and be the devil's advocate at times which can come off as disagreeing so no worries

 

[sbjnyc]

Not really. The issue I have is about more than one player, and more then about just the Mets.

You referred to the Vargas deal as clinching "Yankee Tax" so if its not about him than what? Vargas for a career minor leaguer and cash is a trade the Mets make with anyone. Jeff Wilpon would have personally driven sent Vargas to Yankee Stadium via a Limo uber pool if they agreed to that deal.

 

[JimmyG89]

Again, it's not about the specific players involved.

It is about the specific players involved. If we're talking about a rental reliever that is in the middle of the bullpen, which was the last kind of trade those teams made, it's something that will happen.

We're talking front line starters. It's not the same thing.

 

[sbjnyc]

Don't buy this angle.

New York City could support three major league teams.

They used to until the big bad Yanks chased 2 of them away.

 

[JimmyG89]

That’s exactly what’s being said?

Then quote me where I said those EXACT words.

I’ll wait.

If the Yankees tax doesn't have to be in exact words, neither does that. Oh wait, guess that only works one way.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If the Mets don't want to trade with the Yankees, thats their prerogative.

If they're passing up an superior players because of this, their fans should be livid.

 

[One Winged Angel]

You're being obtuse. What did Arizona ask for from other teams? Can you tell me? Can you tell me if what they asked from others teams was more, less, or equal to Frazier plus three prospects? Was Frazier plus three prospects the opening ask? Was it the final ask? Can you tell me that? Unless you can answer these questions, you're not going to to be able to demonstrate that any particular team was/is being treated unfairly. Instead, you're making assumptions based on hugely incomplete information to support your unfounded notion that other teams are unfair to the Yankees.

Obtuse? How so? I’ve already shown 2 instances in which I’m right. Ray, as I said before is to be determined but with your scope of baseball knowledge, do you really think Robbie friggin Ray is worth that, when Cole and Stroman returned LESSER returns while being better pitchers at a similar age with similar term left on their deals at the time in which they were traded? Please, I’d LOVE to see this answer.

You can’t be serious with this. Either you’re not thinking it through enough or your clear hatred of the Yankees is preventing you from doing so.

You know you start off with a big ask for your most attractive chip, right? The Mets were reportedly asking for so much for Syndergaard that other teams hesitated to call back. Do the Mets have an "every other team" tax or were they just asking for a justifiably huge return?

Childish, right.

You know that when negotiations hit a snag quickly, it means that something went so wrong that there wasn’t even an attempt to hit a middle ground, right?